Combat Has To Go...

DazeGoonBoyDazeGoonBoy Join Date: 2004-03-19 Member: 27424Members
<div class="IPBDescription">and i have an idea to replace it</div> Since its a large article, look at <a href='http://skulkblog.blogspot.com/' target='_blank'>http://skulkblog.blogspot.com/</a>

Combat has had it chance, and I believe it has failed. What do people think of my new idea?

Comments?

Comments

  • Seph_KimaraSeph_Kimara Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19359Members
    edited May 2004
    No it doesn't.

    Posts like this are pretty much locked on site. Combat is here, and it's here to stay. Not to question the validity of your game mode suggestion, but it's not gonna replace combat...
  • Mr_JeburtOMr_JeburtO Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20340Members
    wow a capture the flag game how original.......
  • gazOzzgazOzz Work&#39;s a ... Join Date: 2003-12-25 Member: 24747Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In theory, a good idea: A simpler style of game that would attract new players and expand the world of NS. But, there is one small problem…

    I think it sucks.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I like idea, gameplay, and enjoyment of CO; So you think it sucks is not a valid problem for me... If there will be more game mods for NS, I think Devs could think something more original than Capture the Gorge... btw MvM map co_sillyv3 has capture the gorge feature...
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    edited May 2004
    If ya don't like it, you don't play it....

    <span style='color:white'>Not yet, for now, he's bringing the 'no moderating unless you are moderator' button closer to its eventual departure <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--></span>
  • R_A_CR_A_C Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16273Members
    Dude that's an awesome idea for NS style CTF! I think every game needs a CTF-style gameplay mode. But combat, I think its here to stay no matter what a few people say. The devs have put way too much work/time/money/energy into combat to just toss it now. I think combat does accomplish its goal of introducing people to the universe of NS and helping them learn how to play in an environment they are used to (frag fest w/ some team oriented objectives).
  • Roger_DodgerRoger_Dodger Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
    edited May 2004
    <span style='color:white'>Couldn't you simply have <i>asked</i> for a suspension?</span>
  • napinapi Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Members, Constellation
    edited May 2004
    [Edit]on a completely seperate note, isn't this an idea/suggestion therefore should be in the S&I forums?[/Edit]

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it sucks.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    err ... so?

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->a continual smashing of the opposing teams until one breaks<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    what deathmatch game (to name but a few: Duke nukem 3d, quake, quakeII, quakeIII, ut, ut2k4, CS (to an extent), BF, Sven-coop, DoD, CoD... shall i go on?) isn 't a continual smashing of the opposing teams? good luck answering that one

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Combat, which seems to be about the individual skills of a player<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    yer.. it is isn't it? wasn't that part of the idea? it's a training ground for classic. not an in depth involving FPS/RTS that classic is

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was thinking about a marine dropship that marines can spawn into through an IP then use a phasegate to teleport into the main arena<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    whats the point of spawning in one room, then phasing into another? a phase gate just tells every single alien where you are about to appear.. at least combat has invisible spawn points

    [NB - "dropship" idea can be found in at least 3 threads from the past 2 months - it isn't your idea in that case is it?]

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This would mean the game is about scoring points<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    so is combat. score points, get upgrades, score more points, get more kills, more "smashing the opposition" - just the nice way of ending it early without 10 minutes of spawn rape is having some thing to blow up aswell (ie chair/hive)

    out of interest; if a lerk picks up a gorge, it can just fly back to base... given how many vents etc you said there would be in the main room, lerk would be the obvious class.

    equally going onos would be obsurd; one onos can disable an entire marine team at the click of a button with stomp... who cares about no devour or gore, stomp the marine team and charge away. going back to that - how the hell would marines win if aliens had a single onos? stomp, *gorge carrier with just a pistol/knife now cannot move, nor can any of his team mates*. gg

    i'm sorry, but it just a glorified CTF using little fat pigs instead of flags

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What do people think of my new idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    not much. CTF / CTG same difference. it's been suggested several times in the last few months. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=Search&f=1' target='_blank'>search is your friend</a>
  • VampMasterVampMaster Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14585Members
    I agree with about everything peoples said above me (except the first poster that is)...

    I just started to play more serious CO last night and it is enjoyable. if you don't like it stay out of CO servers...

    And like zaggy said

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Isn't Nemesis hovering over the lock button already? :o) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    He must be pretty darned close by now.
  • BlueNovemberBlueNovember hax Join Date: 2003-02-28 Member: 14137Members, Constellation
    After reading your article, I think this has potential for a small 3rd party mod, if that.

    There's a lot of things that would need to change.

    Would there be a gorge class?
    Would the upgrade system be the same?
    Is it even possible for the rines to win without just waiting for the timlimit?
    What would stop everyone going lerk and just rushing rines?
    Manned turrets are barred by FAQ


    I found the idea funnny though. I would probably play it if it was made, although not for very long.

    S&I is just more fun. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • RedfordRedford Monorailcatfjord Join Date: 2002-04-28 Member: 528Members, NS1 Playtester
    Hey, it'll get my vote if we ever include somthing into NS that has nothing to do with NS gameplay. However, combat, as stated, is here to help new people to learn how to play NS. This does not. Imagine what would happen if a newbie who played CTG tried to grab a gorge in regular NS? Replace the gorge with somthing more fitting to the story (like a hard disk, or a prototype weapon, or a hive sample) and you'll have somthing. However, this idea, as it stands, is misplaced and I feel would be a terrible replacement for combat (if that's even possible).


    We are working on improving combat. Seriously.
  • titaniumtitanium Join Date: 2003-10-31 Member: 22166Members
    i wish people would understand that their opinion is not fact, and that just because <b>you</b> think "combat has to go" does not actually mean that <i>combat has to go or else it's going to be the end of life as we know it</i>.

    i guess i expect too much from people
  • DazeGoonBoyDazeGoonBoy Join Date: 2004-03-19 Member: 27424Members
    Woah! hold on a minute...

    I guess that people have a right to attack my style of writing, but I wanted the idea of "capture the gorge" evaluated. Maybe the "it sucks" was out of order, I hold up my hands to that. And I wasn't really thinking that its should be completely shelved either, the Devs have spent a long time creating and i'm not attacking their work.

    So, my responses

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wow a capture the flag game how original....... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And I suppose that a team deathmatch is? There are only so many types of online play available anyway.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> btw MvM map co_sillyv3 has capture the gorge feature... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    didn't know that. Never played it, my fault i guess.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If ya don't like it, you don't play it.... Isn't Nemesis hovering over the lock button already? :o) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Why? I don't think he would lock down a valid discussion. And I do play it, I prefer classic, but that isn't alway there to play.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gee thats the biggest load of crap i have read in a while!!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    nice critical response, thank you

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How does this give you any practise at all in NS?
    NS and this are so totally different its stupid.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    How does combat? You get to use the practice with the guns and pratice with the hand to hand aspects of aliens. CTF does this as well, but gives people the chance to "play" instead of being constantly whopped by vets. (it happens to me a lot, i know). Also, the idea of teamwork, which is a great aspect of NS classic, would be in CTF instead of straightforward killing

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You honestly think you will achieve more in a gamemode like this than combat?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good luck getting combat removed for this p.o.s...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    removal wasn't my intention, what wrong with taking a hardline approach? I know it won't ever get removed, but I can have some conviction for my views.

    A lot of response have been "don't play it then" and "this idea has been said"

    Well... I wanted the discussion, hence why I do this skulkblog. Not to preach and not to attack people. I want to use a position of devil's advocate, some idea will be good, some will be flawed. I appreciate the good responses, not everyone is going to like my ideas and pointing out issues is a productive thing.

    Thank to those who took time to read my post. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Members, Constellation
    *chuckle*

    aside from it simply being assault (one sided CTF), and just a silly concept in general, I will give you reasons why its a bad idea:

    1) CTF With aliens on one side and rines on the other would be next to imposible to balance. (it would be primarily alien dominated unless you jsut made the maps stupidly hard, and then you would end up with alien team fighting the map NOT the other team)

    2) No Manable weapons. (this is an S&I rule)

    3) Its CTF, why do we need CTF?
    Most CTF Games do not end up with team work (out side of clans), they end up with leet players owning every one.

    4) How is this perceptably different then CO?
    You replaced 'destroy enemy base' with, 'run in, grab enemy base and run back'
  • Mr_JeburtOMr_JeburtO Join Date: 2003-08-29 Member: 20340Members
    wow the thread still lives
  • RipzawRipzaw Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28560Members
    Mate. There is a mod for MvM which turns it into "Capture The Gorge". Basically the Comm Chair turns into a Gorge. And each team has to grab the other teams gorge and take it to their own. Very fun and adds more of a point to MvM than just killing.
  • sawcesawce Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10787Members
    edited May 2004
    <!--QuoteBegin-DazeGoonBoy+May 13 2004, 12:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DazeGoonBoy @ May 13 2004, 12:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> btw MvM map co_sillyv3 has capture the gorge feature... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    didn't know that. Never played it, my fault i guess.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    No, there's a plugin for a gameplay mode called "Capture the Gorge". It's a CTF-like gameplay mode -- however, it is only for MvM maps.

    <b>Edit:</b> Yeah, what ripzaw said. :\
  • SADE-yXSADE-yX Join Date: 2003-08-30 Member: 20392Members
    hmmmm..

    Sorry I havnt read your article on the suggested game mode but I will say a few things about combat..

    I must admit after the novelty of combat wore off I dont tend to look to play it.
    by that I mean.. I dont look for a server currently running a CO map, if a CO game is cycled into the server.. fine, I will play it for a bit.

    It does sharpen your wits and aim! its easy to play (as in no building and following orders)

    And I can see how some new comers to NS (or noobs no good at following orders) will come to prefer CO than classic.
    so..
    Actually I think if Flayra was making any money off this game (he must be somwhere along the line) it makes excelent business sense he has potentially doubled the games apeal to the market! they are after all two nearly completly different games just dressed up in the natural selection theme. (very clever flayra, well done!)

    but my apeal stays firmly with ns classic.. and i would be extremly interested in these other ns classic game modes that are being talked about.. or even maps which have several different objectives that can be completed, like search and rescue.. and I wouldnt object to a CTF style mission either, so long as it was in keeping with the game.. and not just a spoof/joke like this 'capture the gorge' sounds like!
    remember the story is about Frontiersmen who are elite soldiers sent in to sacrifice their lives to destroy the biggest threat to human existence since the atomic bomb... so the game needs to be given due respect and not taken likley.

    .. or am I taking it too seriously? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    SADE-yX
  • chuzwozzachuzwozza Join Date: 2004-01-19 Member: 25464Members
    Tbh, Combat WAS fun when it started. I still play it when i REALLY can't be bothered to play a full-blown 2 hour plus NS_ map. But Combat was designed to bring new people to the community, new players to one of the best half-life mods out there, yet new people DO NOT LIKE COMBAT. Flame away if you want, but the truth is that new players DO NOT think it is fun to come into a game and play until they die. THEN discover that they have to wait 5 seconds for just ONE of their team members to respawn.

    Combat with the wave spawning system used to be a good thing, letting people get to grips with a complicated mod game, introducing them to gently. New combat does not achieve this aim - i've been playing NS since 1.04, like Daze, and we both think, in the form it exists in now, it turns people away.

    In response to those who think CTG would be the same as combat in terms of l337-rambo-kiddi bois running around pwning everyone, the point is that CTG would mean the classes who COULD rescue the gorge would be unable to effectively rescue the gorge on their own - they would need teammates for fire support and cover. Maybe Daze could have explained it a little better, but tbh, if you needed guiding through what he said, then just *maybe* you should go get a little sense before commenting in a reactionary manner.

    Maybe Daze was a little harsh in saying combat had to go, but that's his opinion and he can say that if he likes - at least he gave a reason for not liking it and offered an alternative. I personally want combat to stay, but by no means would I object to seeing CTG - or something similar - being introduced.

    The reason why Daze wrote this is to get guys to look at our blog - ever heard of (lack of) journalistic integrity? Look at The Sun for crying out loud!

    My final words are - It's a game. Breathe, Think, Comment. Spouting off because someone slated your precious NS is just wrong (Chuz's opinion <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)

    Chuz
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    I'm not exactely sure about in how far a thread titled "Combat Has To Go..." does not advocate the removal of the gamemode, and as to that, we have the policy of <span style='color:red'>***locking***</span> such threads - it will just not happen.

    As for your gamemode suggestion, I'd encourage you to repost it in the more appropriate forum - this thread is obviously not the place to hope for a in-depth discussion of it.
This discussion has been closed.