The Turret Thing
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Old Fogie Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12052Members, Constellation
Old Fogie Join Date: 2003-01-09 Member: 12052Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">WTH?</div> Okay, it has been about six months since I was in my NS prime. I'm back and it seems things have changed since then and I learned this the hard way the other day. I feel like a n00b all over again, even though I've been playing this wondrous game since 1.0. I realize that upgrades and weapons and the like are far more vital than a TF but what's the problem with building one with a few turrets at a hive or double point if you've got the res? That ish is effective at keeping skulks away from your pretty RT's freeing up more 'rines to get the job done. Electricity works similarly.
Am I completely wrong in this? All I'm asking is if it is completely wrong to turret up a bit in the mid game if you've got the flow to do so. Please explain the logic.
Am I completely wrong in this? All I'm asking is if it is completely wrong to turret up a bit in the mid game if you've got the flow to do so. Please explain the logic.
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Am I completely wrong in this? All I'm asking is if it is completely wrong to turret up a bit in the mid game if you've got the flow to do so. Please explain the logic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
holy snapperrooonies mast!! nice to see ya back!!!
i suppose it depends on the server and their level of play/style of play. for me, the only time i'll turret up a dbl node is in the first 30 seconds or so, drop 2 turrets to get a nice phase network. the problem most players have with putting turrets midgame, is that many aliens teams have fade by around 5 minutes (much earlier in super competitive matches), and then onos, well, could be anytime after that, depending on rez dominance.
now, it might be that you were playing on a server where they played it very scrimmy (no turrets to speak of, upgrades, shotties, mines, and pgs up teh wazoo), but from your initial description, what you did doesn't seem too bad. it sounds like your rines were just too picky? or something?
and it might be that some tech was needed at that point? say they had fades around, perhaps ppl thought you needed shotties instead?
anyhoo, that's my disjointed opinion! nice to see ya back ! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
marines > turrets
See you soon, dude.
And contrary to what ApolloGX said, turrets are strongest in the begging of game.. if aliens have fades or onos turrets no longer mean something..
So come 8 minutes or so into the game the aliens have the abililty to wreck your outpost without too much hassle.
Where as upgrades give the marines the ability to stop the higher lifeforms and stay untill the end game.
A TF outpost once destroyed is res gone.
So you're slowing down the most important part of the game, and in turn bringing around the turret-wreckers unhindered. Wewt.
And its ~4 minutes tops for 3 RT fades to appear.
See you soon, dude. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh, a pug, yeah, don't drop turrets in those <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
and for sure, see ya soon <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You have so much to learn.
@Mastodon
You probably want to watch a couple games as a grunt, pub comming and 6v6 pug comming are two completely different things.
With sensories however, its a different fashion. I usually need to lock down every singel RT node with 6 turrets, electricity and observatories if the game against 1 or 2 hive aliens drag on.
But since onos and fade are much stronger in 3.0 than in 2.0, especially against turrets (which werent fooled by the hitboxes). Id say turrets are bsically useless unless you can seal off both hives and a dual node in 5 minutes and starve the aliens.
hand out shotguns or get ++. 3 marines w/ shotgun > tf + 2x turrets.
So often you see Marine Commanders lock down hive rooms. It's a good strategy, but hive rooms are purposefully removed and usually only have two exits (Refinery and Feedwater on ns_bast being the exceptions that immediately come to mind). Aliens know that place is locked down and just go around. I've seen Aliens worried more about the marines locking down Temperature Control than both hives. Why's that? Temperature Control is the central point of the map. There are so many vents, entrances and exits, it really makes it hard to get around as a Gorge or Onos if the Marines have Temperature locked down. Same with Generator. Not because it's a frequently traveled point (I rarely pass it myself) but because it makes an excellent staging area and controls several res.
In short, try this out. If you have the res, create little mini-bases in often traveled locations (Chemical Processing on ns_tanith, the twisting Corridors between External Overlook / Temperature / Los Paranoias / Eternal Requiem). You're not keeping the Kharaa out of key locations, you're restricting them to often times a singular path from point A to point B, and locking that down can usually mean bottling them in. One or two marines with LMGs could probably do it if you're short on res. Try it out, let us know. :o
This is something I so rarely see anymore that I was beginning to wonder if they did something to change it and make it impossible. Instead of just locking down the room something like a hive is in, lock down the approaches to them on the map. This prevents aliens from even getting in. Even if a lone alien sneaks in and puts up the hive, you're close enough (15 - 30 second run) so that you can send your guys to burn it to the ground. And since you've locked down the approach to the hive to maybe one large hallway, skulks have loads of trouble getting by to defend the building hive.
Some maps are layed out in a way that makes holding an otherwise unremarkable room located midway between two of the hives equivalent to holding both of them at once. The best example ever is in one of the oldest maps, ns_Hera. It used to be that if the marines were able to push all the way to Upper Processing, which is the room just around the corner from all of those computer banks, narrow catwalks, doorways and hidden vents, they held a position that allowed them to siege both of the hives from one large room with only a couple of large, bright entrances. You can't siege Ventilation from Proc anymore, but you can clear out a large portion of the hive room and give your marines a safe foot-path to enter the hive room from the water level with weapons.
Choke points are all over the place on some maps, and if you control them, you can control everything around them, hives, RTs, vent junctions alike. Places like that are the only places I really don't mind if the commander turrets up.
Otherwise, yeah, turrets can usually be expensive and weak. However, what they ARE excellent at is blocking larger lifeforms from killing the turret factory or the marines for long enough to shoot at them. Place a row of turrets at the far end of the TF's green field, using them to block hallways, and your sieges will live a little longer.
Doot dee doo..
[edit]
The concept is basically the same as when a gorge takes 40 res and spends it on 4 OCs, but puts each of them in a smart place where a marine can't just run down a hallway without being shot at by at least 2 of the OCs at a time. Instead of a wall, he makes a gauntlet which the marines can't get by alone, or without spending time to take down. Putting turret factories in key places with turrets that have the maximum possible shooting range makes a barrier that skulks simply can't get by, or which damages them beyond usefulness.
It's a sound idea. Put it to action.
But those exceptions still exist, makeing a well placed turret or 2 on a strong offencive (Like on top of a crate in cargo on tanith whilst siegeing)
I've always seen turrets as more of a diversion then an offensive or defensive strategy. Each turret will delay the base loss by alittle. (from fades too) Fades can desimate a base over time, But if you place turrets in a circle around the elect. TF, he'll have to heal a few times (plus your marines might walk in on him half dead and finish it off with a pistol assult)
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Mines are just better.
Mines are good at hiding. Turrets are good at range and open assult (however weak those are) You use mines for traps and vents, you use turrets for delaying and diverting.
Mines are just better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
depends, im all for mainres> turrets. but bad placed mines are useless...not to mention if your trying to hold down something, a room, with marines + ____ turrets will be better than mines in that situation. but as far as res goes, turrets are still a waste i think
Mines are good at hiding. Turrets are good at range and open assult (however weak those are) You use mines for traps and vents, you use turrets for delaying and diverting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
how wrong you are
Mines don't do friendly fire damage anymore
Mines are GREAT when phase gate rushing a hive that's building. They instantly kill skulks, and force fades to run back to heal, giving you time to rape that hive.
Mines are just better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lockdown strat is very viable strat on certain maps. I'll admit turrets have limited uses, but it is unfair to say they are worthless.
turrets, or mines?
....
duh! <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PS - I have no idea what type of point I was trying to make... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
.. <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
OMG SENTRY-GORGE!!
Trust me, they work much better than turrets.