Sticky Umbra
Daxx
Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2002-04-16 Member: 460Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">To increase operational effectiveness</div> Currently, Umbra blocks half the damage from projectile weaponry, and has a fairly short life and area of effect. I don't know how many times I've had to excessivly spam Umbra to keep an Onos covered as that Onos hitbox takes up nearly the entire area of Umbra, and can move out of its protection very quickly.
So a proposal. Make Umbra "stick" to a lifeform if fired directly on it. So if you shoot the Umbra projectile directly on say an Onos or Fade, it will stay with that lifeform as it moves, untill it dies out (the Umbra effect, not the lifeform). Keep the same stats of Umbra as is. If a Umbra projectile is fired just at the floor or wall, it behaves the same as the current model, providing a pocket of protection.
I have no idea if this would be hard to code or display, would a moving cloud of Umbra create to much graphical lag? Not sure.
In my opinion this would make the application of Umbra more tactical and less spammy.
C&C?
Edit: Scenario Z Trevelyan <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Found a thread which chronicles this idea <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53624&hl=sticky%20umbra&st=0' target='_blank'>here</a> - There was a fair amount of positive response. Theres been a few changes since (namely 3.0) and even though this is a repeat thread, I think this could be re-considered as a possible viable idea.
Edit2: I put this in Beta Discussion. Probably an I&S thread. Phase if deemed necessary please <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So a proposal. Make Umbra "stick" to a lifeform if fired directly on it. So if you shoot the Umbra projectile directly on say an Onos or Fade, it will stay with that lifeform as it moves, untill it dies out (the Umbra effect, not the lifeform). Keep the same stats of Umbra as is. If a Umbra projectile is fired just at the floor or wall, it behaves the same as the current model, providing a pocket of protection.
I have no idea if this would be hard to code or display, would a moving cloud of Umbra create to much graphical lag? Not sure.
In my opinion this would make the application of Umbra more tactical and less spammy.
C&C?
Edit: Scenario Z Trevelyan <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Found a thread which chronicles this idea <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53624&hl=sticky%20umbra&st=0' target='_blank'>here</a> - There was a fair amount of positive response. Theres been a few changes since (namely 3.0) and even though this is a repeat thread, I think this could be re-considered as a possible viable idea.
Edit2: I put this in Beta Discussion. Probably an I&S thread. Phase if deemed necessary please <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
GJ Bentley
Umbra is fine, I never have problems with it. Primal scream is another matter. Switch primal with slot 2 and make umbra back to its original 2/3 (66.66666>%) or up to it 3/4 (75%) bullets blocked. Even as a slot 2, primal isn't that great, anyway, it definetly needs to last longer.
Just try spraying the umbra cloud in a fashion so it can cover the most area at once per spray.
Umbra is fine, I never have problems with it. Primal scream is another matter. Switch primal with slot 2 and make umbra back to its original 2/3 (66.66666>%) or up to it 3/4 (75%) bullets blocked. Even as a slot 2, primal isn't that great, anyway, it definetly needs to last longer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, the <b>design</b> of Umbra is fine. However, for a NS Classic Lerk to properly fullfill its roll as a support class, the Adrenaline upgrade is pretty much a requirement. Clerity is wonderfull for a Lerk, but that allows for 1-2 shots of Umbra/Spores/Primal Scream, then a cool down time thats longer than any of those effects last.
I have absolutly no problem with the stats of Umbra, just its use.
Yes Forlorn, if the Onos left buttock is in the Umbra AOE, its counts the whole creature. However in a fair number situations this is just not overly possible without alot of umbra spam.
I'd just like to see the ablity get refined into a more precise support ablity. And give the Lerk the virsatility to perform its support role without having a set upgrade path.
What i would like to see is the first alien in the cloud of umbra it would stick to.
Eg: spray ahead of packs to cover the leader and anyone nearby, this would encourage ganging in packs aswell.
The problem with your suggestion is umbra sticking to anything smaller than an onos would be bloody hard to achieve.
The problem with my suggestion a blinking fade would be quite powerful with a personal umbra cloud.
Although spraying for yourself would be quite helpful.
Hell even if spores could stick to aliens so they had a poisonous aura would be good but would screw cloaked aliens.
- RD
Umbra is fine, I never have problems with it. Primal scream is another matter. Switch primal with slot 2 and make umbra back to its original 2/3 (66.66666>%) or up to it 3/4 (75%) bullets blocked. Even as a slot 2, primal isn't that great, anyway, it definetly needs to last longer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
An onos in umbra used to have about 6000 hits. Now it has 4000. 2000 hits less is actually something to **** about, IMO.
Now, think if the original umbra was back ... then that onos would have had 16000 hits. Ah... the good olde days...
a.) Umbra should have its radius significantly increased. It's just not useful enough for Skulk and Fades the way it is, especially after the nerf.
b.) Make Umbra last a short amount of time, maybe 1-2 seconds, after the alien leaves the cloud. It gives aliens a little more freedom and especially helps out faster aliens(Skulks/Fades) who previously didn't get much help from the stationary umbra effect.
a.) Umbra should have its radius significantly increased. It's just not useful enough for Skulk and Fades the way it is, especially after the nerf.
b.) Make Umbra last a short amount of time, maybe 1-2 seconds, after the alien leaves the cloud. It gives aliens a little more freedom and especially helps out faster aliens(Skulks/Fades) who previously didn't get much help from the stationary umbra effect. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's an excellent idea.
Eg fire umbra at a group of marines and their firepower is reduced by 50%. Fire it on an alien an the same happens. This makes more sence as its just supposed to block bullets, and would make it a possible to just spam umbra on marines rather than a fast moving fade. Or you could get BOTH in umbra and get 75%.
Eg fire umbra at a group of marines and their firepower is reduced by 50%. Fire it on an alien an the same happens. This makes more sence as its just supposed to block bullets, and would make it a possible to just spam umbra on marines rather than a fast moving fade. Or you could get BOTH in umbra and get 75%. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that. And it does make sense.
- RD
Aliens win 60% of the combat matches, and making umbra better then it is would only increase that percentage.
Please reread my first post. Umbra was <i>not</i> nerfed, it was just made less effective. If it was dropped from 66% down to 33%, then your argument would hold validity. At the moment, they do not. When something is 'nerfed,' people do not use it anymore because it is too weak to be of any use, and getting it would be a waste of resources.
Umbra is fine, a lerk, sitting stationary and occasionally biting a marine to death can keep an umbra going 100% of the time, albeit with adrenaline. Face it, adrenaline is as essential to a lerk, combat or classic, as regeneration is to an onos, combat or classic.
All your suggestions would be applicable if umbra was a third hive ability. But it is not. Compared to leap, bilebomb, and metabolize, umbra is perfectly balanced for a second hive ability, probably being the best of the bunch.
But, an idea to think of, instead of umbra being a cloud that hits something and expands, it should be more of a stream. Think of a flamethrower. Reduce its radius, concentrate it more with less expansion, and decrease its adrenaline cost. The person using umbra would have to hold down the fire button for a continuous stream.
This would allow pinpoint accuracy of umbra, and with a skilled operator, would let you cover a moving target (an onos, for example, but not a blinking fade) while flying or gliding.
Yes, a Lerk can keep umbra going 100% of the time but whether the creature who you are trying to protect is in that umbra is another question. Surely a creature such as the Lerk who is designed for support should be able to actually have his support weapon be effective?
I feel so frustrated when I say I'll umbra an Onos about to attack an outpost which is usually quite open knowing some of the hives and double res's in maps but the Onos naturally keeps moving about to attack PGing marines or different parts of the outpost so I have to keep umbraing all over the place to follow the Onos. Then, as said Onos realises he's running a bit low on health and makes a retreat and even with Adrenaline I usually don't have enough energy to cover him competely so sometimes if the Onos hasn't judged it right he keels over and dies :\.
I'm all for sticky umbra, it'd make my life as a Lerk so much easier.
you do realise that nerfing means making things less effective right?
you do realise that nerfing means making things less effective right?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought of a 'nerf' as something that was made completely unusable. A nerf, in my view, would be making umbra a hive 3 ability and making it block 15% of the bullets. But oh well, words mean different things to different people.
Blocking any bullets that goes through an umbra cloud makes a lot of sense, actually. That would solve the problem of running aliens; just get the marines. However, at that point, it might be too strong, but you won't know until it's tried.
you do realise that nerfing means making things less effective right?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I always thought of a 'nerf' as something that was made completely unusable. A nerf, in my view, would be making umbra a hive 3 ability and making it block 15% of the bullets. But oh well, words mean different things to different people.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are wrong, as nerfing=weakening certain ability/aspect. The meaning of this particular word is crystal clear. Nerfing something to hell (or something among these lines) is indeed about making it useless, but no one went that far here.
Back on topic, umbra as it was with 66% was fine - many people in pubs were acutally motivated enough to use it in team assaults as it was visibly effective. Now I find myself among those rare few that actually use it anymore - many people say "why bother" nowadays. And partially I have to agree - umbra has become nerfed too badly now for it to be popular among people that aren't veterans and can both aim and predict the course of combat with high rate of success. Main problem is, this nerf has made lerk highly unattractive in it's support role - current low effect time and low effect area were bad enough with 2/3 ratio.
Aliens will still win on pubs, with or without umbra. But on those games were good and not so good players play together, this last umbra nerf will deteriorate the level of teamplay greatly, which is why I would say it's counter-productive.
it was 75% of the shots in 1.04, so 3/4 or 6/8
good guess though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->