Lerk Flight And Combat Updates
Fury
Silver Fish Hand Catch Join Date: 2003-08-14 Member: 19673Members, Constellation
Silver Fish Hand Catch Join Date: 2003-08-14 Member: 19673Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">:(</div> bring back free cost lerk flight!!!!!!!!!!! >_<
having it cost energy sucks again <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
also focus in combat!!!!!!!!!!! WHY 2 points!!!!!!! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> that makes it even worse when you try to lerk and focus , cause not only do you have to waste a point going gorge, but then you have to waste 2 points getting focus.. instead of 1 point focus.
the combat time is ok idea, but not really good on custom maps, because marines have hard enough times gettin to the alien hives, or the other way round.
dunno if thats customisable?! (sp?)
IMHO b4 > b4a
having it cost energy sucks again <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
also focus in combat!!!!!!!!!!! WHY 2 points!!!!!!! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> that makes it even worse when you try to lerk and focus , cause not only do you have to waste a point going gorge, but then you have to waste 2 points getting focus.. instead of 1 point focus.
the combat time is ok idea, but not really good on custom maps, because marines have hard enough times gettin to the alien hives, or the other way round.
dunno if thats customisable?! (sp?)
IMHO b4 > b4a
Comments
Lerk energy was re-added because of the "pancake lerk". Being able to fly up and down VERY quickly with celerity and a quick jump made those lerks almost un-hittable, and a large distraction while being shot at because it is very hard to hit it.
Even with the timer, games that i have seen (clan matches and scrims) where still a greatly alien biased, but it is still too early to make a clear distinction between good tactics and gameplay flaw. (I am reguarding aliens camping the hive until the time runs out, or marines walk in and ambush them.)
i mean, the first ideia of focus afai remember was taking out the rines with 1 hit, and now with this 2 points stuff you really CAN'T because untill you reach lvl 2 rines are alredy with the armor upgrade. So while in aliens we got skulks with focus trying to get fade on rines they have shottys and armor up. And if you go fade without focus against 2 rines with shottys ur owned.
this thing of focus 2 lvls capped WAY down aliens, they turned from godlike to pffftlike. I guess that the next big balance step should be increase hive self-regen speed, take out gorges and welders, and focus back to 1 point only.
dunno just my 2 cents
The focus cost, however, is too severe. For 2 points, a vanilla skulk can go lerk: that's like buying carapace, celerity, a slightly better bite, and a long range weapon all at once: for only two points! Focus doesn't even come close.
I think the major reason marines hate focus is because most want to tech rush to their lvl3 noob cannons as fast as possible, and they resent having to get armor 1 unless they are going for jps and HA, and even then they don't want to bother getting armor until the very last thing. But the game is supposed to be based on counters: aliens get focus, rines get armor. Rines get armor, aliens need to get focus.
I mean, a vanilla skulk takes two bites to kill a marine, and only one bite if the marine is wounded. With focus, it's one bite no matter what. With armor 1, it again take two focus bites to kill, and one if the marine is wounded. So focus HAS a one-point counter to it: marines just don't like to use it (I STILL see a majority of marines who don't even bother to get level 1 armor even after the game's been going on a while!).
With focus costing two points, however, armor 1 becomes incredibly cost effective in comparison. The one point counter to two point focus means that even a marine with terrible aim can outlive a skulk rush.
i mean, the first ideia of focus afai remember was taking out the rines with 1 hit, and now with this 2 points stuff you really CAN'T because untill you reach lvl 2 rines are alredy with the armor upgrade. So while in aliens we got skulks with focus trying to get fade on rines they have shottys and armor up. And if you go fade without focus against 2 rines with shottys ur owned.
this thing of focus 2 lvls capped WAY down aliens, they turned from godlike to pffftlike. I guess that the next big balance step should be increase hive self-regen speed, take out gorges and welders, and focus back to 1 point only.
dunno just my 2 cents <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just to clarify, IIRC Focus was implimented to stop the med-spam from being unstoppable. In the earlier builds of 2.1, a jetpacker with re-supply could solo a hive because of the rate at which he would get mepacks would counter all of the skulks/lerks/fades trying to leap/blink/fly into him and take a hit.
and so far, people have extrapolated it to a OMG NUB CANNON because it auto-kills marines without level 1 armor or a totatl heatlh/armor of 150 or less.
Besides, most skulks take leap then, and that does fine against marines, mainly because lots of people can't continue to aim at skulks who fly past and curve up behind the marines.
I think the major reason marines hate focus is because most want to tech rush to their lvl3 noob cannons as fast as possible, and they resent having to get armor 1 unless they are going for jps and HA, and even then they don't want to bother getting armor until the very last thing. But the game is supposed to be based on counters: aliens get focus, rines get armor. Rines get armor, aliens need to get focus.
I mean, a vanilla skulk takes two bites to kill a marine, and only one bite if the marine is wounded. With focus, it's one bite no matter what. With armor 1, it again take two focus bites to kill, and one if the marine is wounded. So focus HAS a one-point counter to it: marines just don't like to use it (I STILL see a majority of marines who don't even bother to get level 1 armor even after the game's been going on a while!).
With focus costing two points, however, armor 1 becomes incredibly cost effective in comparison. The one point counter to two point focus means that even a marine with terrible aim can outlive a skulk rush. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The reason that most people want weapon upgrades is that they didn't take the time (as most clanners do) to do the math and see which one is more effective for the cost/ timing of the upgrade.
Why do you think that in almost EVERY clan match/scrim, everyone gets armor 1 waaaayyy before weapons 1? With armor 1, it takes 3 skulk bites to kill a marines, and 2 if they have focus. How many shots to kill a skulk with level 0 guns? 9. How many with level 1 guns? 9. Don't believe me? do the math. Having the armor upgrade allows the marine to live longer (roughly fractions of a second longer), but in those fractions it allows the marine to get off the few remaning shots to kill the skulk.
Then again, it goes back to the ratio of power to cost. Focus is very powerfull compaired to the cost of it, it may be the correct balance issue, who knows.
I mean, how would you, as a fade, like to run around with 0 armor all the time unless a gorge came to heal you?
In co though, you have what - 7 points to spend on your Lerk? And only Cel/Regen/Umbra are really mandatory, leaving you with 4 picks to spread across Focus, Carapace, Primal, SoF, Adrenaline etc...
...not exactly a troubled class.
The Focus cost in co_ does only good things - reduces the Focusmonster builds by one upgrade (mainly affects Fades), nerfing the overtech a bit (now that Aliens don't have to end co_ games anymore, theres no real reason for them to be unstoppable killing machines).
Hightech weaponry vs lowtech aliens, I dare say you lost the earlygame in that case. And for the record, you can very well argue a Skulk dies almost instantly against any NS firearm at any level - under half a second or so if I remember right, an amount thats pretty small when latency is involved.
to me , both silence and scent of fear are VERY useful.
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Why do you think that in almost EVERY clan match/scrim, everyone gets armor 1 waaaayyy before weapons 1? With armor 1, it takes 3 skulk bites to kill a marines, and 2 if they have focus<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
which is exactly why it should still cost 1. because 1 upgrade point for a marine makes focus less usefull, however, having 2 points to get focus means that the ratio between good/bad for focus/armour is stuffed.
armour costs 1, so focus should cost 1.
if they keep the price of focus at 2, then they SHOULD put the price for shotgun to 2, because a shotgun does a hell of a lot of damage, and is about the equivelant of marine focus.
Seriously though, you guys shouldn't be mad that now marines will have armor 1 by the time you get focus. All the good players get armor 1 on their first level, because they knew alot of good alien players go straight ot focus. All they did was give the weapons 1>shotgun players more of the reason to do what they have always done. Get weapons 1 and a shotgun, die to focus skulks, then come whine on the forums about how noob focus is. Well now that it's two points, you guys will look even MORE noob still NOT having armor 1 by the time they get focus. No more omg focus doesnt take skillzorz!!!111one. Because focus killing armor 1 marines DOES take skill, you have to aim and time your bites if you want to be able to kill them before you kill you. I'll give you guys the "killing no armor marines with focus doesnt take skill" but only barely. The only reason it doesn't take skill is because of you very whiners.
It might even make sensory a more popular choice in classic.
if they keep the price of focus at 2, then they SHOULD put the price for shotgun to 2, because a shotgun does a hell of a lot of damage, and is about the equivelant of marine focus.
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weapons 1+shotgun=2 points
having it cost energy sucks again <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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i like how it is now,less ^noobs^ trying to "pwnzor" as the lerk just by flying in circles and spore spamming
if they keep the price of focus at 2, then they SHOULD put the price for shotgun to 2, because a shotgun does a hell of a lot of damage, and is about the equivelant of marine focus.
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weapons 1+shotgun=2 points <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Focus counter: armour 1. One point.
Shotgun counter ? Fade ?
Only things that are not fine in combat are respawning and experience system.
One gets experience way too slowly if you take into account the fact that timelimit is defaulted to 10 minutes. It's a miracle if you are able to reach level 8 before time's up. And maybe experience should be changed damage-based or atleast give bonus xp for damage/hits (especially to kharaa).
Also marines have become too powerful as now they don't camp in their base anymore, instead they rush (-> hive dead within 2 minute mark) and spawncamp becomes more of an issue.
I dont like how it removes a high-end skulk ability. Alot of people, like myself, play skulk throughout the entire game. I rarely go fade/onos, I sometimes go lerk(because its fun). Skulk at level 10 vs level 10 marines is fun and challenging, but now its one less ability I can get.
It really effects the lerk hardcore though. Now a lerk needs 2 points to lerk, 2 points for focus. 1 point for umbra, 2 for primal. That 7 points. They can only get 3 upgrades now after focus.
Focus was a neccessity for hit and run tactics against a high level shotgun or a group of marines, you can't just run in and bite away...especially with the umbra change.
I enjoyed being a celerity/silence/carapaced lerk and sacrificing regen for focus and adrenaline. Now I can't do that, I have to be focus, Celerity/Silence/Adren I suppose <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->