Ns 3.0 Beta 4a

Sylver · May 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">first impressions</div> I played in a vet server, it was really cool while it lasted. But unfortunatly I crashed for the third time in 10 minutes. Is there a major crash issue or something or is it just me?

So what I really like in the new beta is that by using 'minor' changes the game is improved so much. The 10 minute timer really makes you sweat when your a marine, I haven't played as alien though. Also marines spawn one by one a second apart should be sufficient enough. Good you guys got rid of the experience growth for the aliens, and of course the lerk flapping costing no energy. Now that was a treat for awhile <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />. Well nothing bad to say about beta 4a really, nice job lads!

Now I've been reading the front page of the website as well, and my suspissions (spelling?) about the BUS are proving to be more accurate by the day, but that's all I'm going to say about that. There's just one thing I've had on my mind for a few days now and that's a suggestion (which I've posted in the proper forum section as well): How about auto-swiching both teams, so all marines go aliens and vice versa, right after a game of combat? Think Unreal Tournament's "Assault" game type... eh?

phunktion · May 2004

first impression..lerks aren't fun again.
going in for the bite gets you killed again.
back to going fade again i guess.
capping vertical speed would have been the better fix.

umbra nerf is good. it was a abit overpowered .

combat is way better. just remove the cc now.

NARDogLicker · May 2004

Heres a suggestion.. if you are going to keep nerfing the upgrades for aliens, might as well nerf the GL and make it 2 levels. Because everyone seems to love spamming those nades, and it really is annoying when you have 10 out of 15 marines on a team with a GL, spamming.

RaVe · May 2004

I'm liking it so far

But due to some problems, I can't pull out any statistics from any public servers in my area....sorry.

But I like the idea of nerfing the lerk in cost of energy again. Pancaking was a big issue. But I wonder why spores still has that reeeeeal long drawout delay.

Apos · May 2004

Ah, lerks are still pretty fun. They do feel a bit clunkier, but you can still divebomb in and out of rooms chomping away.

I cry foul on the focus thing though. And I concur that if focus gets a point nerf, then grenade launchers should as well. They are seriously the bane of fun in combat: it's no fun to randomly blow up somewhere because the grenades are pretty much invisible, except for the launching sound almost noiseless (especially in the din), and don't require any sort of aim at all to be totally annoying.

xspike · May 2004

GL spam, i dont really call it Spam, ffs its a grenade luncher u dont think u could just fire it and it will hit an enemie, well u do sometimes hardly ever. it takes time for the grenade to expolde, and lots off the aleins can excape it in time before the blow up =\

and theres only for shoots before the long reload off the GL.
how about saying HMG spam for once? lol

anyways combet alot better! apart from the time counter should be like 15mins/20mins

focus lot better at 2 points, most said they liked it in the server i was playing in

"and it really is annoying when you have 10 out of 15 marines on a team with a GL, spamming."

ive never seen that happen.

blackholedreams · May 2004

If focus gets a 2 point nerf, then GLs should cost 2 points and hive 3 abilities should only cost 1 point (with the exception of POSSIBLY web).

Apos · May 2004

You've never seen GL spam? Then you've enver played combat games that last long enough for more than one person to get a gl. Yes, it's a clunky weapon that's not that fun or easy to use. But it's also, in the hands of the unskilled turtles it often ens up in, a nonstop series of random explosions.

RabidWeasel · May 2004

The time limit has made marines stick together and attack much more, and now that they spawn faster than aliens, there's a real dependence on higher lifeforms, (skulks without focus vs. more than 1 marine = dead) which makes early marine rushing very effective.

Base camping has been totally eliminated, and playing as a marine is much more fun. I think alien players need to get used to the fact that you can't really go all game as a skulk and not spend a lot of time in the spawn queue.

AlphaOmega1 · May 2004

I don’t like the new version, in co once you have a few of the enemies in your base the game is basically over as it turns out to be a 8 vs 1 stand off most of the times.

I have mixed feelings about the introduction of the time limit in co.

Positive: It reduces those really long games, and provides yet another restriction to gameplay

Negative: With the default 10 minute limit, it is kind of hard to get 10 levels on some occasions but that cant be solved.

Bit buggy like other versions but that can’t be helped. I give it a 4/10. It has loss it’s unique touch.

kleal · May 2004

Overall id say its a move up from the Beta4.
Beta 3 id say its a step sideways.

The good elements for Combat that is.
Increased the Focus to 2 points
Reduced marine spawn time

Dislike
Timer, 10 mins isnt enough in the game. Hardly any level 10's.
Attack isnt as a high option for aliens now, since they win when timer runs out.
GL spamming by marines now
and did I say the Timer?

surprise · May 2004

the timelimit is a variable, so the server can customize it

so thats not a big deal

Mintman · May 2004

Why are you so bothered about getting to level 10 anyway? Try rethinking your upgrade path first. I find I have all I need by level 7-8 and the others are just things I'd like to have rather than need.

For example, as a JPer with a shotgun you don't really need resupply if you are attacking as you don't often get more than the allotted ammo in the hive. Also, you don't do much less damage than a W2/3 shotgun in terms of hive damage which is the main objective.

Wirhe · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>--and of course the lerk flapping costing no energy. Now that was a treat for awhile--</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Bummer; and I had grown to love lerk. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

*Runs off to check how it works*

But umbra sounds more balanced now. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Ascelon · May 2004

which? Also, do they have bugs?

d0omie · May 2004

I don't really see why focus should cost 2 points, if marine and alien are both level2 and one gets focus,one gets armour 1 the marine is at an advantage to when they were both level 1.

Its certainly not worth 2 points. Just marines should get armour rather than shotties first.

remi · May 2004

<rant>

This new build isn't good at all...
I haven't had a good CO game since I downloaded the patch. Not once.

The time limit sucks, marines shouldn't need to worry about their cc AND a time limit. and if they do ahvea time limit, maybe they should gain exp over time as well.

Also, the time limit is balancing for bigger games, which I just think is stupid. CO should be played in small games, but in small games, it's easier to keep people from the hive, and so the short time limit sucks a**.

Focus costing 2 points I think is stupid, but will probably make the game better.

I think it's just a stupid idea since every other upgrade from upgrade chambers cost only 1 point.

The hive3 ability costing 2 also is stupid, but only because it's sucha useless upgrade for most lifeforms.

I also don't see why the shotgun needs weapons 1 before you can get it. It doesn't make sense to me...
On that thought, why do jetpacks and heavies need armor 2? that also doesn't make much sense...

I think it would be good if they tested, and would see what the game owuld be like if the weapons weren't dependant on weapons 1, and the proto upgrades on armor 2...

Last thing (i think) is that the grenade upgrade is completely utterly worthless. No one ever gets it. The nade shouldn't take so long to throw. That alone would probably help immensely. (in classic and in combat) the way it is now, the aliens have like 20 seconds of time to run away, it's just kind of stupid. If there's an alien int he vent that you want to flush out, it's got so much time to just run deeper in the vent that it's just stupid. If you could just switch and throw in like, half a second or smoething, it owuld become much more worthwhile in both classic and combat.

Oh, this is the last one, i swear. Lerks.

Lerk flight energy has been reinstated, which is kind of good, kind of bad.
I would have prefered if they had just put a speed cap like on the pistol, but at least they chopped the energy cost in half. Now your energy comes back at almost the same speed as if you flap as hard as you can. (takes a little moe then you get back) so it's good in the sense that if you fly properly, you should never get 'tired'... Only problem with this is it costs energy for flapping, and so that means less energy for umbra, spores, or primal. Without the energy cost, you could fly around and have your energy refill, but with it now, you can't flap, and if you do, it delays the energy refilling by a little bit.... if you see what I mean.

Pancaking definetely was a problem, but energy cost isn't the way to fix it... Of course, i haven't had very much time to test it, so this is basically first impressions.

One major thing about the energy costs removal was that finally lerk was good in classic. You could escape after biting an rt, you weren't grounded if you spored them, and it was just fun... Except the pancaking.

</rant>

Ots · May 2004

uhwell, havent played b4a and for the looks of it wont be playing in a month or so. But! ... this complain that lerks aint fun anymore is total crap. Now that it actually takes some energy to fly gives back requirement of actually knowing how to fly with it. Back on b3 was out i was easily able to fly with a tiny energy loss at top speeds. And being able to do those hit&run attacks.

Sure you can get killed easily if you wank your +jump button like a maniac but thats your loss of not knowing what your doing.

Drakken · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sure you can get killed easily if you wank your +jump button like a maniac but thats your loss of not knowing what your doing. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

This was my main problem when beta4 was released. People had no clue how to use the lerk because all they did was bind the jump button to the mousewheel and spam the flight so they could mash into the ceiling/ground. Now you actually have to learn how to fly *GASP* OMG NOT THAT!

Now on to the point with focus. Stop whining you ignorant ****. Focus was raised to 2 points because it is far too easy in the beginning, middle, and end games of *COMBAT* because you did double damage with ONE attack. Most people don't have the reaction time to kill the skulk if it attacks from behind (which is how skulks SHOULD attack seeing as they are supposed to be weak attacking from the front).

Now on to the point about GLs. A grenade launcher costs 3 points to get, whereas focus only takes 2 now. Yeah you may say grenade launcher takes now skill because all you do is spam it. This is true to a point, but then you have the people who actually KNOW how to use it. To properly use a GL, you'll need motion tracking so you KNOW when to fire the grenade. Motion tracking not only helps you locate your enemy, but it also alerts you more to when you need to attack, or run away. Just because an attack is spammable, doesn't mean that it should be removed/nerfed. A grenade launcher, when fired, has a timer on the grenades. This timer gives you enough time to run away, but still sometimes not enough time to move out of its blast radius.
I don't know about you guys, but if you played with the grenade launcher back in 1.04 you would have probably quit the game. Back then the GL reloaded in one full clip almost as fast as the LMG would reload and I believe it did more damage than it does now.

The point about time limit in combat now. This must have been the best thing they could have done to combat. Setting a time limit to the game was like a blessing. Now marines HAVE to attack, not turtle, or they will most indefinitely lose the game. Now since the timer can be changed, it shouldn't affect much unless you play on a server that WANTS to have a low timer so that combat doesn't last so long. Only problem I have with a low timer is that it is somewhat a bit more difficult to obtain lvl 10.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Also, the time limit is balancing for bigger games, which I just think is stupid. CO should be played in small games, but in small games, it's easier to keep people from the hive, and so the short time limit sucks a**.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

This is ignorance at its best.
Just because you feel that combat should be made for small games, doesn't mean everyone feels the same way as you. In smaller games, it is just as easily to spawn camp the other team as it would be in larger games. You obviously haven't played many combat games because the timer usually never reaches the 10 minute mark anyway because either the aliens have already won, or the marines have killed the hive. If the marines haven't won by the 10 minute mark anyway, they should lose because they are most likely turtling.

Now on to umbra. I love the new change, because now you basically don't have double/triple the health you would normally have. Umbra is still very useful, now you just can't take full clips of like 6 LMGs as an onos and still have armor left. Umbra was too overpowered, but people got so used to it blocking 2/3 of bullets that they never got to think of how overpowered it was when it was used in conjunction with an onos attacking outposts/MS.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>One major thing about the energy costs removal was that finally lerk was good in classic. You could escape after biting an rt, you weren't grounded if you spored them, and it was just fun... Except the pancaking.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

You're still able to do this, just don't take those last 2 bites on the RT and you're still able to fly away unharmed. The thing about the spores, yes this could be a problem, but don't spam spores so much that you won't be able to fly away. If people continue to complain about the return of the energy-needed-for-flight lerk, then it comes to show you that people hate change, even if it was changed for only a short period. The reason, I believe, the lerk now needs energy to fly again is because people exploited how it was used instead of how it was supposed to be used. <i>YOU</i> people are the reason this was changed, not the people who changed it back to the way it was.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think it would be good if they tested, and would see what the game owuld be like if the weapons weren't dependant on weapons 1, and the proto upgrades on armor 2...</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

I agree with you totally on this, we should test and see how the weapon system would work out if you didn't need weapons 1 for shotgun or if you needed armor 2 for HA/JP. The only thing that SHOULD stay is shotgun as a requirement for HMG/GL. Armor 3 should be a requirement for HA/JP, but reduce each cost for those things back to 1 point.

Sorry about the long post, I tried to get everyone's points and explain about them.

Spazmatic · May 2004

Umbra:

Yeah, it was overpowered on outpost assaults, or against small groups, but now... Played an 8v8 where the marines turtled, and 5 onos with 2 lerks couldn't take them down because onos are just like Swiss cheese against hmgs, and umbra is now 2/3 as strong as in, what, beta 1.04? Losing track of the umbra changes. Not sure what would help fix this up without throwing off the small engagements again.

BOBDolol · May 2004

the umbra change was VERY necessary. in b3, things are pretty much invincible when they're inside umbra.

Seph_Kimara · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spazmatic @ May 2 2004, 04:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Umbra:

Yeah, it was overpowered on outpost assaults, or against small groups, but now... Played an 8v8 where the marines turtled, and 5 onos with 2 lerks couldn't take them down because onos are just like Swiss cheese against hmgs, and umbra is now 2/3 as strong as in, what, beta 1.04? Losing track of the umbra changes. Not sure what would help fix this up without throwing off the small engagements again. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
1.04 was 5/6 bullets blocked, I think. I also believe the nade launcher did 200, to whoever brought that up. Funny thing was, I (personally) rarely ever saw them, most comms would just drop HMGs.

Lerks are once again not that great. Flight energy cost isn't good. I'll continue using them regardless because fade and onos are too rich for my blood. Don't like the fact that my performance will either make or break the game if I choose those classes in classic (especially the early fade...)

Birdy · May 2004

Still retarded combat maps, co_checkersreadyroom, co_rainbow and let's not forget co_1400rspeeds.

Focus 2 points, wrong way to balance it... should maybe be a different % of damage+ for each lifeform.
Still nothing has been done to the shotgun/gl reloading annoyance.
Default combat timelimit feels a bit too short.
Making aliens only defend is plain boring.
Would rather have random attack/defend teams and those who attack have their cc/hive removed.

Wirhe · May 2004

*Tried lerk*

/Does not like anymore. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

Flight is needed to escape, and usually you don't have adre when you need it the most. Back to fade...

N1Rampage · May 2004

Yeah, I was actually liking the silence with a lerk, but now back to adren for me!

NARDogLicker · May 2004

Hrm.. that attacking and defending thing sounds way better than combat. I liked playing attacking and defending maps in TFC.. I wonder if that would be better in NS.

TugBoat · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([NAR]DogLicker @ May 1 2004, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Heres a suggestion.. if you are going to keep nerfing the upgrades for aliens, might as well nerf the GL and make it 2 levels. Because everyone seems to love spamming those nades, and it really is annoying when you have 10 out of 15 marines on a team with a GL, spamming.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Hmm, 15 Marines in a CO game? Most ive seen is 7, as the servers I play on are limit of 14 players, I doubt you would have a 30 player server for combat, if you are thats just stupid, as its not meant for that many players.

I think you are exagerated a bit, even in 7 player games, I never see more than 2 GL's in a game, sometimes 1 is most you will see, I prefer my Shooty myself.

This is a good balance I think, just Timer needs to be uped imho, and CC gone as well, to encourage MArines to move out more, instead of having to protect the CC.

Akimbo · May 2004

get so sick of replying to these posts now. CO is ruined. NS is ruined. Bring back B4 NOT B4a, but keep the slight cost to fly as lerk. Only good thing to come out of whole patch is that lol.

Doombringer · May 2004

Let's go back to Beta 3.

Seriously... a time limit in Combat? So, now the marines have to worry about a ticking clock AND their Command Chair. No sir, I don't like it.

A timed Attack/Defend ala TFC might be a better idea if you're looking to make CO games faster and more violent.

Rushakra · May 2004

Umbra Nerf. First thing that comes to mind: "Joy, now the aliens will have an even harder time breaking turtles." <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' />

Could Umbra conceivably stack with another Umbra, up to a maximum of two Umbras? One Lerk = 1/3 bullets stopped. Two Lerks = 2/3 bullets stopped. Three Lerks = 2/3 bullets stopped. Four Lerks = 2/3 bullets stopped.

Also, make grenades half as large as skulks and bright pink, so we can SEE them before they hit the ground and turn invisible. Grenades = doom to anyone with ping over 200.

Zunni · May 2004

I feel CO took a real big step to being completed with the time limit..

I also like the way the game feels now.. I haven't "felt" a build since 1.04...

seeing mass amounts of marines running down a hallway gunning for that hive is epic in scale..
I think the entrances to hives are going to have to be adjusted though to allow for 2-3 marines to go through at the same time, 1 by 1 they get picked off <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Ns 3.0 Beta 4a

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