<!--QuoteBegin-lagger+Apr 29 2004, 04:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lagger @ Apr 29 2004, 04:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-e.Nadagast+Apr 29 2004, 01:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (e.Nadagast @ Apr 29 2004, 01:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um lerks still suck at actually killing marines... at least in my experience. Their HP is way too low, it's way too much of a risk to go for a kill. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> TOTALLY AGREE, I've been trying to say this in all the threads that deal with pancaking lerks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You guys are wrong, I can clean house with the new lerk. It makes me feel like I'm cheating. I like the changes, but still think that if everyone catches on to how to use the lerk (and I'm not talking about scripts, cause I don't use them and you dont need them) games will be totaly owned by lerk madness. I can clear a room of HMG marines in seconds and still have plenty of life left. This thing has more power then an Ono's (at least in combat).
I've been playing every day since b4 came out, I have yet to see a lerk "Clean House" against me or any other decent marine team. If you show me this I will retract my statement, but until then I stand by my opinion. (In ns)
In combat... well lets put it this way. Combat < Ns, the new lerk makes ns a better game the after effects on combat dont impact me very much on this issue. Even then gl's/shottys take out lerks in combat with ease even in combat.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Apr 29 2004, 04:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Apr 29 2004, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you don't care about combat, why are you in this thread? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> SOMEONE has to post decent feedback <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A couple possible solutions to the problems with combat go as follows (just random ideas I have heard).
1) Revert back to the previous form of spawning - At the start of the game it's pretty even since a skulk is about equal (roughly) to one unupgraded marine. Later on it becomes a problem, you have a upgraded marine on one side and a fully upgraded onos or fade on the other, which is more powerful? A better question would be which one lasts LONGER.
2) Place restrictions on species types for alien - This speaks for itself, it just seems like alien teams in combat shouldn't have the capability to have an entire team of oni or fades.
3) Have some form of "turrets" in each base at the start of the game. This will prevent early spawn camping and mean that games aren't as short as 2-3 minutes, on the other hand it isn't that significant to make longer games extended for insane periods of time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) Place restrictions on species types for alien - This speaks for itself, it just seems like alien teams in combat shouldn't have the capability to have an entire team of oni or fades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's OK for all of the marines to have HA/JP, but not for aliens to all be fade/onos? <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Have some form of "turrets" in each base at the start of the game. This will prevent early spawn camping and mean that games aren't as short as 2-3 minutes, on the other hand it isn't that significant to make longer games extended for insane periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. If the turrets are killable, they should be gone after a few rushes on the base/hive anyway, so they won't affect the late game, but a team that gets hit early will have a chance or two to recover from being spawnkilled.
I voted slightly worse. Not because of the spawn system, that's not the problem. It's the problem the system creates. Spending several minutes in line, waiting to spawn. Yeah, I can finally get up and go to the rest room or grab a drink, but that's the problem, it stops the pace of combat. I play combat for fast paced gameplay that is semidecent of a tool for skill building. Now, it just seems that I play so I can take bathroom breaks or check my email. Not to mention this makes a prime target for spawn campers as that you only have to face one marine at a time...
As for reducing gameplay, I've seen 2 minute games, mainly because people still don't get armor 1, but because the aliens got lucky, and it's easy to spawn camp marines. It's not so easy with aliens because most of the maps the aliens have little rooms off to spawn into or different levels in the same room. Then there's the opposite end, I've been in a game on Angst where half the marines went HA, a few JPs and the rest were lights, but nearly everyone had welders and resupply. Marines were almost invincible, the aliens had around 4 onos, but they were the devouring lamers. Wouldn't do anything else but devour a person (LA or HA, didn't matter) and run out then repeat, instead of trying to kill more than one marine. The game went on for around 95 mintues before the onos stopped spamming devour and just decided to kill marines. 4 onos on a comm chair = dead chair in a few seconds.
As for the lerk, save the pancaking lerk, it's fine. I see more players lerking in the begining of the game since they are viable now, and for killing them, they're still as easy. It's just that the good players with umbra and aim can go into the middle of a few marines, bit some heads off and then leave before taking much if any damage. Lerks don't clean house save for a focus lerk in combat with all the marines rushing shotties instead of armor. Just throw in some spores, let set for a few seconds then umbra where you plan to attack and you have many dead marines.
The alien XP is great, especially for people that quickly gorge to heal the hive that was rushed but thent he marines never seem to come back and the gorge is stuck, trying to leech off XP or bilebomb the comm chair.
b4 could have done a lot more to help larger games in classic but I guess I'll just have to wait even longer to actually get some decent res as an alien on larger servers.
<!--QuoteBegin-i'm lost+Apr 29 2004, 11:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (i'm lost @ Apr 29 2004, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2) Place restrictions on species types for alien - This speaks for itself, it just seems like alien teams in combat shouldn't have the capability to have an entire team of oni or fades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's OK for all of the marines to have HA/JP, but not for aliens to all be fade/onos? <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Have some form of "turrets" in each base at the start of the game. This will prevent early spawn camping and mean that games aren't as short as 2-3 minutes, on the other hand it isn't that significant to make longer games extended for insane periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. If the turrets are killable, they should be gone after a few rushes on the base/hive anyway, so they won't affect the late game, but a team that gets hit early will have a chance or two to recover from being spawnkilled. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I am sure they would have to find some method to even this out, would it be on just aliens or both marines/aliens, certain species/upgrades or all of them. Out of all of the ideas I have heard so far either reverting the spawn system in CO back to what it was prior to b4 or the turret idea sound like the most feasible.
I believe the turret idea was mentioned in another thread by someone else, I just figured it was a good idea so I would mention it again here.
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
Aliens make me sad. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because I'm not a "twitch" player (well, I'm not all that bad, but prefer not to play that way), so ever since lerk lost its spikes, aliens haven't been much fun for me. The only things I can play without utter embarrassment are skulks, gorges, and onos. And playing gorge often isn't all that rewarding especially if you lose your critical 10 res by getting owned within the first few minutes of a game. I'm pathetic as a fade, I dont' like to use weapon switch scripts and nonsense, and I'm no good flipping back and forth between blink and swipe. Lerk I'm even worse at - I just cannot get a hang of the flight model so I sit there pathetically flapping going 1 inch per second trying to take off as I get a shotgun in my face.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Apr 29 2004, 04:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Apr 29 2004, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you don't care about combat, why are you in this thread? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because the lerk changes affect both modes of play.
The lerk changes in my belief are worth while.. YOu need the lerk to be able to move with out using up all of its combat energy.. Otherwise its kindauseless to go lerk without Adren.
Fade is hard yet easy class to play, I don't play with scripts, never have, never will.. Yet I have mastered quick switch as a Fade, Jsut bind a key near one of your fingers that quick switches weapons, quickly blink then at the last second hit the switch key and your attack again.. Very easy way, then blink back out again..
Fades are the king of all classes, if played right they can own any type of marine out there, heavy, jp, normal. Then again, played wrong, they will be nothing more then a slimey green stain in the wall.
I voted "much worse", but I'm a whiner. I didn't play too many games of beta 4, but the ones I played were awful, beta3 was painful, but at least it was still great fun most of the time. In 3, I saw a good share of alien ownage due to a handful of very skilled players who only went alien that could keep a greater number of marines very busy, but that may not represent combat on average. I was really hoping for a boost to marines in beta4, but they didn't get a single thing, and that really irked me, hopefully they'll get something really helpful this time. (and possibly the skulk will get a small boost to compensate, if necessary. It seems a bit weak, not counting early-game focus-camping <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteBegin-Licho+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lerk was not used much because it was not fun (with constant crawling behind bigger aliens or hiding inside vent).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, lerks are underpowered, if you say so. *shakes head*
<!--QuoteBegin-Lucky_+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lucky_)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My point in a nutshell - aliens have a strategic path that is simply uncounterable because of the current spawn system - mass higher lifeform. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I agree, there's not much marines can do against a team of fades that spawns faster than they do. (though I'm not sure if the aliens still have a shorter spawn interval than marines with this new spawn system)
<!--QuoteBegin-Kardoffel+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kardoffel)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Focus was the worst change in NS v3! plz remove it it suxxx<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Heh. Even I won't agree with that one. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Focus is killer.
Edit: Oh right, I really think the two-point cost for the hive 3 abilities is a very silly idea, xeno and webs are the only abilities even close to being worth that, I say nerf webs a little (maybe xeno too if you REALLY want to, but I really don't think it needs it) and drop the cost back down to one.
I saw someone suggest making the Lerk in Classic cost 5-10 res, now that's a pretty interesting idea. Would give aliens a cheap assault unit and probably help them out early game (where skulks just get dominated). I think it would be pretty interesting as well as make sensory/movement chambers more viable <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> (As you have a unit that can defend the hive pretty well without DCs)
8 would be a good amount probably, since a Lerk can get soloed pretty easily by a shotgun marine.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kardoffel+Apr 29 2004, 12:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kardoffel @ Apr 29 2004, 12:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Focus was the worst change in NS v3! plz remove it it suxxx <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What are you talking about? Focus is the only reason that sensory first is viable in classic.
lol lerks and divebombs? i find it hard killing lerk players because ive seen way too many lerk players abusing the unlimited flight and fly into walls etc lol
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Aside from my prior standing problems with Classic balance, I like Beta 4.
Lerk flight not costing energy is a great change, though I'd agree that top flight speed DOES need a limit.. not because I see Lerks zooming away, because I've watched a Lerk zip down a long hallway in under a second.. most likely with mousewheel-flap. Love the ability to actually fly and still be able to Spore/Umbra. And to the person who said that it takes the Lerk out of the 'support' class... that pretty much happened when Spikes changed to Bite. It's a hit-and-run fighter at this point. Has to get in close to use its primary damage-dealing attack, even if it still has some support capabilities.
As for the single-spawning, that's fine.. most of the time. It DOES get irritating to have an Onos and a Fade simply sitting in spawn and killing spawners rather than going after the chair. Perhaps once the entire team is dead, a one-minute timer starts. If they don't kill the CC within that time, the entire Marine team respawns. If half the Marines are alive at any given point during that time (make it 3-4 minimum, so it'll still happen in small games), the distress beacon is cancelled. Gives Kharaa a good chance at killing the CC on an assault, but still allows a Marine comeback if they're just spawncamping. Same on the Kharaa side, if the Marines are just camping.
I think everybody's going to be VERY suprised and VERY happy with any new changes that may or may not be coming. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Aaronvroom vroom der party startahJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7020Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Delphi+Apr 29 2004, 10:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Apr 29 2004, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think everybody's going to be VERY suprised and VERY happy with any new changes that may or may not be coming. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Keep an eye on n-s.org! ;D<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A way to initiate pick up games based on skill level?
i think the well known sg- bug is still present in beta 4. so i hope it becomes fixed in the next beta, 'cause its very annoying when you shoot 3 hits in front of the dammit skulk, and it is still alive..
gameplay wise, it's pretty much the same as b3 (except spawning is even slower), but I voted worse because of the general disappointment of the patch. besides the BUS not being announced (which I could've lived with), the spawn system which many people recognized as a severe flaw in combat wasn't fixed - it was made worse. that, and the pancake lerk makes for a pretty disappointing patch. the worst part of it, that really peeved quite a few people is the time we've been waiting for it - 2 months. i understand you were on vacation, but having such a bad patch come out after 2 months of waiting, well, it was an anti-climax, if anything.
also, flayra, can you take the time to explain what exactly was changed about the sparks problem? is the problem completely fixed, or is it just that the spark graphics don't show up anymore? bit confused <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Apr 26 2004, 08:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Apr 26 2004, 08:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dying in combat should be a very bad thing for your team and beta 4 brings us closer to that, people don't like to play combat how its meant to be played. 2 hour killathon stalemates were horrible. The spawn system is great. Games actually end. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes.
What is a pancake lerk? Is there some new evolution I missed? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's when a lerk flys up and down really fast to dodge fire. With the removed adrenaline cost, a lerk can do this real easy.
They ended in under 20 minutes for almost all the games I played on a 9v9 server. 20 minutes is perfect for most people getting to the higher levels, at least in beta 3. 20 minutes allows people to get to higher levels and also gives you a sense of accomplishment when the hive/cc goes down. A rush with LMGs/skulks just really isn't satisfying as getting umbra while you pound the cc spawn after spawn or JPing ramo shottys to the hive.
There were some games that were an hour long, but never two hours, and it was always angst. Angst has horrible, horrible stalements. Most of the other maps, save for a few, aren't as unbalanced (or should I say too balanced... ?).
<!--QuoteBegin-Delphi+Apr 30 2004, 02:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delphi @ Apr 30 2004, 02:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think everybody's going to be VERY suprised and VERY happy with any new changes that may or may not be coming. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Keep an eye on n-s.org! ;D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I want it now <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Apr 30 2004, 06:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Apr 30 2004, 06:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh boo, not more hype for the next beta, we had enough for beta 4 :/ <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> o so true
Comments
TOTALLY AGREE, I've been trying to say this in all the threads that deal with pancaking lerks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You guys are wrong, I can clean house with the new lerk. It makes me feel like I'm cheating. I like the changes, but still think that if everyone catches on to how to use the lerk (and I'm not talking about scripts, cause I don't use them and you dont need them) games will be totaly owned by lerk madness. I can clear a room of HMG marines in seconds and still have plenty of life left. This thing has more power then an Ono's (at least in combat).
Later,
Josh A.K.A. |TB|Superfly
In combat... well lets put it this way. Combat < Ns, the new lerk makes ns a better game the after effects on combat dont impact me very much on this issue. Even then gl's/shottys take out lerks in combat with ease even in combat.
SOMEONE has to post decent feedback <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1) Revert back to the previous form of spawning - At the start of the game it's pretty even since a skulk is about equal (roughly) to one unupgraded marine. Later on it becomes a problem, you have a upgraded marine on one side and a fully upgraded onos or fade on the other, which is more powerful? A better question would be which one lasts LONGER.
2) Place restrictions on species types for alien - This speaks for itself, it just seems like alien teams in combat shouldn't have the capability to have an entire team of oni or fades.
3) Have some form of "turrets" in each base at the start of the game. This will prevent early spawn camping and mean that games aren't as short as 2-3 minutes, on the other hand it isn't that significant to make longer games extended for insane periods of time.
It's OK for all of the marines to have HA/JP, but not for aliens to all be fade/onos?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Have some form of "turrets" in each base at the start of the game. This will prevent early spawn camping and mean that games aren't as short as 2-3 minutes, on the other hand it isn't that significant to make longer games extended for insane periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. If the turrets are killable, they should be gone after a few rushes on the base/hive anyway, so they won't affect the late game, but a team that gets hit early will have a chance or two to recover from being spawnkilled.
As for reducing gameplay, I've seen 2 minute games, mainly because people still don't get armor 1, but because the aliens got lucky, and it's easy to spawn camp marines. It's not so easy with aliens because most of the maps the aliens have little rooms off to spawn into or different levels in the same room. Then there's the opposite end, I've been in a game on Angst where half the marines went HA, a few JPs and the rest were lights, but nearly everyone had welders and resupply. Marines were almost invincible, the aliens had around 4 onos, but they were the devouring lamers. Wouldn't do anything else but devour a person (LA or HA, didn't matter) and run out then repeat, instead of trying to kill more than one marine. The game went on for around 95 mintues before the onos stopped spamming devour and just decided to kill marines. 4 onos on a comm chair = dead chair in a few seconds.
As for the lerk, save the pancaking lerk, it's fine. I see more players lerking in the begining of the game since they are viable now, and for killing them, they're still as easy. It's just that the good players with umbra and aim can go into the middle of a few marines, bit some heads off and then leave before taking much if any damage. Lerks don't clean house save for a focus lerk in combat with all the marines rushing shotties instead of armor. Just throw in some spores, let set for a few seconds then umbra where you plan to attack and you have many dead marines.
The alien XP is great, especially for people that quickly gorge to heal the hive that was rushed but thent he marines never seem to come back and the gorge is stuck, trying to leech off XP or bilebomb the comm chair.
b4 could have done a lot more to help larger games in classic but I guess I'll just have to wait even longer to actually get some decent res as an alien on larger servers.
It's OK for all of the marines to have HA/JP, but not for aliens to all be fade/onos?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3) Have some form of "turrets" in each base at the start of the game. This will prevent early spawn camping and mean that games aren't as short as 2-3 minutes, on the other hand it isn't that significant to make longer games extended for insane periods of time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. If the turrets are killable, they should be gone after a few rushes on the base/hive anyway, so they won't affect the late game, but a team that gets hit early will have a chance or two to recover from being spawnkilled. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I am sure they would have to find some method to even this out, would it be on just aliens or both marines/aliens, certain species/upgrades or all of them. Out of all of the ideas I have heard so far either reverting the spawn system in CO back to what it was prior to b4 or the turret idea sound like the most feasible.
I believe the turret idea was mentioned in another thread by someone else, I just figured it was a good idea so I would mention it again here.
Because I'm not a "twitch" player (well, I'm not all that bad, but prefer not to play that way), so ever since lerk lost its spikes, aliens haven't been much fun for me. The only things I can play without utter embarrassment are skulks, gorges, and onos. And playing gorge often isn't all that rewarding especially if you lose your critical 10 res by getting owned within the first few minutes of a game. I'm pathetic as a fade, I dont' like to use weapon switch scripts and nonsense, and I'm no good flipping back and forth between blink and swipe. Lerk I'm even worse at - I just cannot get a hang of the flight model so I sit there pathetically flapping going 1 inch per second trying to take off as I get a shotgun in my face.
Because the lerk changes affect both modes of play.
Fade is hard yet easy class to play, I don't play with scripts, never have, never will.. Yet I have mastered quick switch as a Fade, Jsut bind a key near one of your fingers that quick switches weapons, quickly blink then at the last second hit the switch key and your attack again.. Very easy way, then blink back out again..
Fades are the king of all classes, if played right they can own any type of marine out there, heavy, jp, normal. Then again, played wrong, they will be nothing more then a slimey green stain in the wall.
<!--QuoteBegin-Licho+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lerk was not used much because it was not fun (with constant crawling behind bigger aliens or hiding inside vent).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah, lerks are underpowered, if you say so. *shakes head*
<!--QuoteBegin-Lucky_+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lucky_)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My point in a nutshell - aliens have a strategic path that is simply uncounterable because of the current spawn system - mass higher lifeform. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I agree, there's not much marines can do against a team of fades that spawns faster than they do. (though I'm not sure if the aliens still have a shorter spawn interval than marines with this new spawn system)
<!--QuoteBegin-Kardoffel+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kardoffel)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Focus was the worst change in NS v3! plz remove it it suxxx<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Heh. Even I won't agree with that one. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Focus is killer.
Edit: Oh right, I really think the two-point cost for the hive 3 abilities is a very silly idea, xeno and webs are the only abilities even close to being worth that, I say nerf webs a little (maybe xeno too if you REALLY want to, but I really don't think it needs it) and drop the cost back down to one.
8 would be a good amount probably, since a Lerk can get soloed pretty easily by a shotgun marine.
What are you talking about? Focus is the only reason that sensory first is viable in classic.
Lerk flight not costing energy is a great change, though I'd agree that top flight speed DOES need a limit.. not because I see Lerks zooming away, because I've watched a Lerk zip down a long hallway in under a second.. most likely with mousewheel-flap. Love the ability to actually fly and still be able to Spore/Umbra.
And to the person who said that it takes the Lerk out of the 'support' class... that pretty much happened when Spikes changed to Bite. It's a hit-and-run fighter at this point. Has to get in close to use its primary damage-dealing attack, even if it still has some support capabilities.
As for the single-spawning, that's fine.. most of the time. It DOES get irritating to have an Onos and a Fade simply sitting in spawn and killing spawners rather than going after the chair. Perhaps once the entire team is dead, a one-minute timer starts. If they don't kill the CC within that time, the entire Marine team respawns. If half the Marines are alive at any given point during that time (make it 3-4 minimum, so it'll still happen in small games), the distress beacon is cancelled.
Gives Kharaa a good chance at killing the CC on an assault, but still allows a Marine comeback if they're just spawncamping.
Same on the Kharaa side, if the Marines are just camping.
Keep an eye on n-s.org! ;D
Keep an eye on n-s.org! ;D<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A way to initiate pick up games based on skill level?
so i hope it becomes fixed in the next beta, 'cause its very annoying when you shoot 3 hits in front of the dammit skulk, and it is still alive..
cYa
also, flayra, can you take the time to explain what exactly was changed about the sparks problem? is the problem completely fixed, or is it just that the spark graphics don't show up anymore? bit confused <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
What is a pancake lerk? Is there some new evolution I missed?
Yes.
What is a pancake lerk? Is there some new evolution I missed? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's when a lerk flys up and down really fast to dodge fire. With the removed adrenaline cost, a lerk can do this real easy.
There were some games that were an hour long, but never two hours, and it was always angst. Angst has horrible, horrible stalements. Most of the other maps, save for a few, aren't as unbalanced (or should I say too balanced... ?).
Keep an eye on n-s.org! ;D <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want it now <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
o so true