Natural Evolution Of Ns Builds
Fade_Dunaway
Join Date: 2003-05-12 Member: 16235Members
Join Date: 2003-05-12 Member: 16235Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Anyone else see this?</div> From 1.x to present, I've noticed a disturbing trend that emerges as each build gets older;
Early on, the aliens seem to be a little over the top (which was only really true in early 2.x). Balance tweaks are made and things seem to be "good."
But for some reason, towards the end of each build, the marines gain a solid upperhand in the first 5 minutes of the game.
My theory is that this is maintained in 3.x because of the new Lerk. While definately fun and interesting, the lack of spikes make it so the marines can infinately position themselves in long hallways, large rooms, etc. The rush of skulks can't stand up to the combined LMG fire. Shotguns take care of lerks and fades with efficiency.
Even the powerhouse fade has a hard time overcoming this "distance barrier." And with only 1 hive (early game) lerks can't umbra friends. In many rooms and halls, I'd be scared to go 1 hive Onos, even with defense upgrades.
Again the aliens feel like the hunted instead of the hunters. What do you think contributes to this in each build, and why does it take so long to emerge?
Early on, the aliens seem to be a little over the top (which was only really true in early 2.x). Balance tweaks are made and things seem to be "good."
But for some reason, towards the end of each build, the marines gain a solid upperhand in the first 5 minutes of the game.
My theory is that this is maintained in 3.x because of the new Lerk. While definately fun and interesting, the lack of spikes make it so the marines can infinately position themselves in long hallways, large rooms, etc. The rush of skulks can't stand up to the combined LMG fire. Shotguns take care of lerks and fades with efficiency.
Even the powerhouse fade has a hard time overcoming this "distance barrier." And with only 1 hive (early game) lerks can't umbra friends. In many rooms and halls, I'd be scared to go 1 hive Onos, even with defense upgrades.
Again the aliens feel like the hunted instead of the hunters. What do you think contributes to this in each build, and why does it take so long to emerge?
Comments
I have a feeling that with the newly announced system, map tweaks and balance changes, some of the outstanding concerns will go away.
Let me let you in on a little secret. The TSA (y'know the marines) they hunt down the Kharaa and attempt to destroy them aggressively wherever they pop up.
Let me let you in on a little secret. The TSA (y'know the marines) they hunt down the Kharaa and attempt to destroy them aggressively wherever they pop up. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the larger sense, the aliens are the hunted ones, yes.
In the smaller sense, TSA is supposedly coming into each map only after significant infestation has already happened. So they're effectively going into the aliens turf.. ergo.. they're the prey.
and the teams are balanced when they are even, there is no need to make marines weaker in any period of the game.
Let me let you in on a little secret. The TSA (y'know the marines) they hunt down the Kharaa and attempt to destroy them aggressively wherever they pop up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the larger sense, the aliens are the hunted ones, yes.
In the smaller sense, TSA is supposedly coming into each map only after significant infestation has already happened. So they're effectively going into the aliens turf.. ergo.. they're the prey. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhh, no? That's exactly the opposite of what that would mean. If the marines are horning in on the aliens' turf, that means the aliens are on the defensive side.
Early on, the aliens seem to be a little over the top (which was only really true in early 2.x). Balance tweaks are made and things seem to be "good."
But for some reason, towards the end of each build, the marines gain a solid upperhand in the first 5 minutes of the game.
My theory is that this is maintained in 3.x because of the new Lerk. While definately fun and interesting, the lack of spikes make it so the marines can infinately position themselves in long hallways, large rooms, etc. The rush of skulks can't stand up to the combined LMG fire. Shotguns take care of lerks and fades with efficiency.
Even the powerhouse fade has a hard time overcoming this "distance barrier." And with only 1 hive (early game) lerks can't umbra friends. In many rooms and halls, I'd be scared to go 1 hive Onos, even with defense upgrades.
Again the aliens feel like the hunted instead of the hunters. What do you think contributes to this in each build, and why does it take so long to emerge? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The entire point of spores is area denial
Most of the time its just that in some spot of a map, the aliens have the advantage (A nearby vent to retreat to) and in some parts of the map, the marines have the advantage (a narrow long hallway). There's no way to fix it, nor is there a way make a perfect map.
Oh, that and the players. Its the players that unbalance the game.
I played a combat 1 on 1, and whooped the skulk over and over.
Then when I was skulk, I got whooped over and over.
It could be I was just better at marine or suck as skulk.
I played a combat 1 on 1, and whooped the skulk over and over.
Then when I was skulk, I got whooped over and over.
It could be I was just better at marine or suck as skulk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get the right upgrades and know when to attack then usually <b>Skulk > Marine</b>. But if everything is default, then marines are stronger and better, and it should be that way.
There is a central person saying "Everyone do this".
The problem with Aliens is there is no overview of the map to say go here, do this, do that.
It would be nice in Beta 4 if someone was deemed the "Brood Mother" or something like that and maybe sat at the hive attatched to it even and commanded the aliens to go places. Perhaps its just an advanced race that is a gorge, but bigger/slower and can't leave a certain radius of the hive, but they can setup defense ect, and gain resources faster. I dunno, but I do think the commander is a key component for marines succeeding more often than aliens early on.
Right now you have people saving for early fade, not placing resource towers, running around randomly not working as a team.
With motion tracking as a solo marine you can just about manage to avoid all the aliens, and if you don't you kill them by knowing they are coming.
Early on, the aliens seem to be a little over the top (which was only really true in early 2.x). Balance tweaks are made and things seem to be "good."
But for some reason, towards the end of each build, the marines gain a solid upperhand in the first 5 minutes of the game.
My theory is that this is maintained in 3.x because of the new Lerk. While definately fun and interesting, the lack of spikes make it so the marines can infinately position themselves in long hallways, large rooms, etc. The rush of skulks can't stand up to the combined LMG fire. Shotguns take care of lerks and fades with efficiency.
Even the powerhouse fade has a hard time overcoming this "distance barrier." And with only 1 hive (early game) lerks can't umbra friends. In many rooms and halls, I'd be scared to go 1 hive Onos, even with defense upgrades.
Again the aliens feel like the hunted instead of the hunters. What do you think contributes to this in each build, and why does it take so long to emerge? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The entire point of spores is area denial <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Spores are largely ineffective when the marines already control enough res for health packs, and does not effect buildings. I've never seen a lerk spore out a phase gate before.
Spikes act quickly enough to keep the marines' heads down a bit, where spores are more annoying than anything.
The marines taking orders from the comm is a teamwork thing. If you don't follow orders by your comm, do you really think you are being a "team" player?
And in fact, that's like 2/3rds of the success of human team.. just having the marines follow orders.
I played a combat 1 on 1, and whooped the skulk over and over.
Then when I was skulk, I got whooped over and over.
It could be I was just better at marine or suck as skulk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe your just a good rine and a crappy alien
Now, it's become that the aliens have to get proficient with the skulk, and learn how to use it most effectively. Now, a lone Fade cannot rush and take down utilities and marines with ease.
Most of it sounds great, but I think that Skulks should made into fighters instead of stepping stones.
EDIT: P.S. I think they should find a way to nerf Skulk rushes, yet also make Skulks more of a fighter.