Combat Spawning System?

SethSm · April 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">inquery</div> hi... combat is fun and all but the spawning system grates ones carrot now and then, dont know if im the only one that feels this way... but its annoying wen u spawn into the jaws of 4 skulks while u have lvl3 guns and an hmg and u cant do anything?? just wanna know if u guys feel the same or have any ideas on improving the combat spawning system for the next update perhaps... what i was thinking was to spawn marines quite a distance from the comm chair to give them atleast half a chance to fire more than 5 bullets off at the savages eating the comm... and for aliens maybe have discreet and widley spaced spawn locations.. unreachable by marines.

...just a thought... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' />

Eidolan · April 2004

Its rare you see spawncamping in the hive even close as bad as you see it in MS. I think marines spawn should be like becon. Like every 15 seconds all "dead" players spawn. So you chould get lucky and die right before it gose off or have the wait the 15 seconds.
Now your prolly saying "wait thats longer then there spawn times now, how is that going to help?" Well you may have to wait longer but lets say the whole team is dead, that means the whole team spawns back at once. Thats has a MUCH better chance of warding off the alien force then a lone marine spawning here and there.

Tuplis · April 2004

I think rines should spawn in waves 2 times bigger than now, the time between the waves should be doubled, and marines should have ~3 second time in which they cannot be hurted

Birdy · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tuplis @ Apr 10 2004, 11:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think rines should spawn in waves 2 times bigger than now, the time between the waves should be doubled, and marines should have ~3 second time in which they cannot be hurted  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
We tried that some playtests ago and even 1 second was too long.

Besides, combat is suppose to be fast and that does not include 3 second invul time <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' />.

Rue · April 2004

I think the time that it takes to spawn is ok, but If you think about it, 9vs9 match and all rines are dead, say 8aliens in the marine spawn. 2 people spawing is not going to do very much.

I know it goes from 1 at a time to 2 at a time when you get to 6 players but when does it go to three?

ps. it would be cool if marines came in waves like DoD and the kharaa came in small numbers, keep that line of differance in the game that comabt seems to loose

Ryse_Slade · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think the time that it takes to spawn is ok, but If you think about it, 9vs9 match and all rines are dead, say 8aliens in the marine spawn. 2 people spawing is not going to do very much.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

Combat is supposed to be a fast game. When the aliens manage to kill all marines and "camp" (half the team biting the cc and the rest killing marines) their base the game is over. Sometimes this happens 2 minutes into the game because marines sucked and sometimes it takes some time. Nontheless the game is over. So why do exactly the opposite of what the game is supposed to be and let marines spawn in larger groups to drive the aliens away? The other way round marines can easily finish the game if they manage to kill all aliens and camp their spawn.

As of now the game is about aliens keeping pressure on the marine base until a single marine manages to kill the hive opposed to all aliens "sieging" the marine base to win the game.

Rue · April 2004

I know what you mean and its a fair point but the thing is, sometimes noone bites the cc, for instance last night there were 2 onos in our base, not killing the cc which woujld have taken.....10seconds? no they stood devouring us, with the fades and lerks noone spawned for more than 2 seconds.

I think that if combat maps were changed to allow for a seperate spawning location for each team all this could be solved. If you have something like the pic below then the aliens would have to spawn camp both entrances and the marines would have the option to go out in one huge wave or not

The rooms could contain a turret/OC like the TFC spawn turrets to stop aliens from camping

Beretta · April 2004

What a pretty diagram rue <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

I was just thinking, how about have it so the marine spawns, and sort of emits one of those things in tfc that makes your view go all wierd for like a a quarter of a second so the aliens cant really attack him right <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

LiberalMonkey · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Apr 11 2004, 06:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [Stuff about protected rooms]  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
So, to summarize:
Marines should win all the time because I like marines.

GhostBomber · April 2004

Ehm--If you seperated the marine spawn location from the CC, then you would REALLY have spawn camping. At least now it's actually required for the alien to spawn kill to hit the CC, but if marines came from a different place, a couple skulks would have to spend all of their time killing marines from their spawn room rather than attacking the CC between spawns.

I've never liked the temporary-invulnerability system. If ever I see it on a server, I leave immediately. It just makes it incredibly hard to win, since the enemy gets a second or two to shoot/chomp your brains out. Spawn camping is just part of the game right now. You can't destroy the CC/hive without doing it.

But I agree that there should be a way to stop the spiralling loss other than one person getting lucky and taking down a few skulks/rines so the next wave can possibly survive. I think rather than every wave spawning half of the team, maybe every 3rd, 4th, or even 5th wave could spawn half of the team in, just to give them a chance to come back.

Zek · April 2004

Marines spawning in very large numbers was pulled during the closed beta because it created almost unbreakable stalemates. Spawn invulnerability was removed for basically the same reason. It takes too long for either team to end the game as it is; we don't need any changes that will make it longer.

am0k · April 2004

I think, spawninvul for a few seconds are good enough. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Arete · April 2004

Sometimes it is a bit excessive, but you did allow yourself to get into that position.

Marines splitting up into groups of 1-2 people and going in different direction, all dying at once causes this problem.

I kind of enjoy spawning into 3-4 skulks and taking them all out, followed by cheers of teammates <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

As for the person who said camping in the hive isn't half as bad you have just not participated in a good camping yet. I've managed to get a few quick levels, go in with shotgun + resupply and armor 1 and last for like 5 respawn cycles. I would then purchase damage 2, catalyst and all of a sudden Im a super skulk killer. MOving faster, shooting faster. Teamed up with someone this can be just as deadly as any skulk spawn camp.

Basically, if you see half your team die suddenly to skulks, CAMP YOUR BASE, DONT LEAVE. You have to guard the spawners, until the majority of your team is spawned again.

The problem arises when 2 people are left alive and they just run out of the base, so new spawns get camped, they eventually die and just contribute to nothing but the loss of the marine team.

As for the 9v9 comment about marines being screwed if 8 aliens are in the base....If your entire team died in a 9v9, that means the aliens managed to completely wipe 9 people without losing but 1 alien. I dont think anything else can spell defeat more than that...well maybe 0 alien losses <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Tip: When spawning as marine being camped, hold down a directional key. Be ready to start shooting immediately upon spawn, hold trigger and just start shooting. Learn spawn points, that way when you spawn you know which direction to face. If you spawn in a good spot and your team is looking pretty rough off, I.E CC down to yellow/red. Just run to the hive if you can. I have managed to make it to the hive with just an LMG and shoot a clip into it. This actually made 3 skulks stop camping and that gave enough of an advantage to the spawners to recoop from our soon to be loss. This works even better if you have nades or an HMG/shotty. You can actually manage to do quite a bit of damage to the hive as well <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

While I am on the subject. Why do marines suck so badly at avoiding aliens/making it to the hive? In pubs all the time I see people confront an Onos as a solo heavy, or solo marine. So many times I have simply just hidden behind a corner/box and let the Onos run by and made it to the hive to kill skulks/fades and get 2 full clips of a shotty into the hive. AVOID THE ALIENS! Especially on bigger maps, you don't have to kill them, actually, most of the time Marines win is when Aliens are attacking their base heavily..

Bigger maps are alien advantages, not marine. People say small maps suck for marine, I disagree. Walking 1 mile to the hive gives the aliens 100x more opportunities to kill you, run back to hive, heal full, get to your spawn before you spawn and kill you again. Marines are slow, aliens are fast. Therefore smaller ground to cover is better!

Killing Alien = Respawning alien while you're in the hive.

So you've effectively made killing the hive harder for yourself.

Solex · April 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rue @ Apr 11 2004, 06:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I know what you mean and its a fair point but the thing is, sometimes noone bites the cc, for instance last night there were 2 onos in our base, not killing the cc which woujld have taken.....10seconds? no they stood devouring us, with the fades and lerks noone spawned for more than 2 seconds.
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
If they didn't attack your cc and were just prolonging the game then they were being llamas. Some servers ban/kick people for doing that. Personally I see that as more of an admin rather than a gameplay issue.

rknZ · April 2004

Remove welder / gorge and have uber slow regen rate on both the CC and hive.

Then bring back spawn time based on level (2-12 seconds + time to next wave), and have the dead spawn in waves coming at regular 3 second intervals.

Lee_Harvey · April 2004

The current spawning system did exactly what they wanted it to, which was to speed up Combat games. It is fine how it is, except that there is one issue. If one team has 6 players and the other has 5, one team has both the numbers advantage and the spawn advantage.

My proposal is this: Each team spawns with numbers proportional to the <i>other</i> team's number. So if a team has the numbers advantage, the other team will have the spawn advantage. I'd say that would be very balanced and fair. Any comments?

Combat Spawning System?

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