Ha Vs Jp
Rapier7
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
Join Date: 2004-02-05 Member: 26108Members
<div class="IPBDescription">NO DESCRIPTION FOR YOU!</div> Personally, I think jetpacks are a waste.
Not only do even experienced players die easily in them, HA offers much more teamwork and coordination, not to mention an HA train is just about unstoppable.
Heavy armor is just a safer, more reliable investment than jetpacks. The only time comms use JP is when the game is in the bag, and they know it.
What are your thoughts?
Not only do even experienced players die easily in them, HA offers much more teamwork and coordination, not to mention an HA train is just about unstoppable.
Heavy armor is just a safer, more reliable investment than jetpacks. The only time comms use JP is when the game is in the bag, and they know it.
What are your thoughts?
Comments
Unless you have a team of noobs that cant fly JPs, then JP is the way to go. However, I hardly ever get a team good enough that I think they can handle JPs.
Many times, in many games, Ive JP/Shottie rushed a hive and taken it down with only minimal support from my comm. If you are lucky enough to get a team of good players, then the JP rush will do more damage than your HA train ever could do, and they would do it quicker too.
One thing to note is that if the game is long and drawn out, there are OCs all over the map, and OCs are a JP's worst friend. At the end of a turtling period, you would need HAs to mow through all the WOLs.
Cramped map with onlly a few vents? Go HA
Map with large roms for Onos to run a mile? Jetpacks
Maps with lots of vents? Jetpacks
Those freefall maps? Jetpack
It also depends on the alien teams side. Do they have many lerks, or many Oni? Do they have OCs spread around on the map? Do they have 3 hives?
Then there's the inevitable player variable.....have they played before? Can they handle a jetpack? Can they speedrun through the map or do they simply run around nmot listening to orders? Are they good?
That you'll have to consider when you comm next time.
And on HA trains being unstoppable....when the ned arise, an emergency Onos with stomp and a small brigade of skulks would take care of that. Having a lerk in there is even moreso devastating.
finding witch is the best upgrade for your team is based on some things:
1st - Your team (noobs like jp because it is versatile an makes the camp and stay away from the allmighty onos. but if you have some real bad **** tema that kiks all JP for good the use it well (for me jp+hmg+welder ROXX) otherwise its a waste.
2nd - The enemy team (if you problem is fades use ha if onos use jp; Still it depends if this team is godd with jp or not)
3rd - The map (some maps are juast NOT for jp some not for ha (dont use jp in ns_ayumi but use the in other maps with more open areas))
4th - Current state (if you have the game in the bag give HA to play with skulks, if you have an open hive use jp gives more advantage tha ha (the onther points are to consider while thinkin about this))
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This is tha way i thing when im in command!!
JP-
(Hive 1-2)
Blink Fade
Leap Skulk
WoL (not killing but weakening)
lArk
hungry hungry onos (you will run out of energy which = stomp = devour or devour out of the air)
OC(s) on hive
HA-
(Hive 1-2)
Good onos+stomp with adrenaline/skulks
4-5 fades
lerk+umbra onos/fade(s)
Nothing else can stop an HA train very well, and you need the HA to stand in a train formation for the skulks to do the work, if even one avoids it, dead skulks!
On the other hand group of HA survives very long time and moves at 95% of speed of light marines, they seem to be far better investment. If you play properly stomping onos is not a problem (you should not enounter them at all), good fades are the problem..
Unless you have a team of noobs that cant fly JPs, then JP is the way to go. However, I hardly ever get a team good enough that I think they can handle JPs.
Many times, in many games, Ive JP/Shottie rushed a hive and taken it down with only minimal support from my comm. If you are lucky enough to get a team of good players, then the JP rush will do more damage than your HA train ever could do, and they would do it quicker too.
One thing to note is that if the game is long and drawn out, there are OCs all over the map, and OCs are a JP's worst friend. At the end of a turtling period, you would need HAs to mow through all the WOLs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but if your team is that good, an HA train will just about guarantee defeat for the aliens, while JP is still a risky venture.
If jps dont work, game is over, marines lost... I don't know where you playing but usually when it's time for HA or jet decision and attempt marines have 1 try to win..
2 hive aliens are stronger than marines and eventually win, you must use res advantage to hit them hard while you can..
But most game of course end before alien get second hive (or by killing growing hive) because at 2 hives aliens are usually too strong.
Get HA if...
-Two hive lock down. Because with out stomp an onos can't do anything against em.
-Offence chambers everywhere. They slow down or kill jetpacks, who's only advantage is speed, but HA's just go past them or through them.
-If I have res now, but may not latter. HA is more expensive to research and takes longer, but in the long term it is <i>much</i> cheaper. You almost have to give welders to your jetpacks since they won't have much armor, and with HA you don't have to keep dropping lots of medkits on them to keep them alive.
Get jetpacks if...
-Mop up. If my marines have been successful at keeping alien nodes down and keeping them at one or two hives then I'll often go for jetpacks because they will let me gain an even bigger advantage much faster. The speed of a jetpack lets the marines keep scouting and hunting down aliens.
-If there are lots of undefended locations or ways around defeneses. Jetpacks are the best for hit and run attacks and if aliens didn't spend res on building offence chambers in their hive rooms, or there is a vent that lets me get around them, I'll often get jetpacks and set up a raid.
-If there is some special area. I'll often get jetpacks if they let me get to a special area that can siege a hive (like the vent in nothing), or let me build a phase gate in a location that an onos can't reach.
Onos stomp + skulks takes a lot of teamwork, and usually they have to be huddled together.
By the way, when the other team has over 2 onos, you've already lost. That's just a byproduct of their constant success in taking over the map and kicking your ****.
Light armor upgrade3 = 4 skulk bites, I think. If you can get Welder JPs to stick together in a close unit, you can be anywhere on the map, and not lose them because they have no armor left and only need two bites. Yet another reason to rush armor 3.
HA and JP are both totally powerful if your players aren't nub. If they are, neither will save them. The upgrade doesn't matter, it's the player you drop it on. kk thx</span>
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Equip a group of 5 'rines with JP and HMG. Have them blitzkrieg style speed rush a hive, and they can almost always take it down. None of this "the fade ate my phase-gate" crap... JP squads can get there too fast to be ambushed in the mid-game. HA is good but you can easily get eaten by ownos.
I hate aliens.
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Equip a group of 5 'rines with JP and HMG. Have them blitzkrieg style speed rush a hive, and they can almost always take it down. None of this "the fade ate my phase-gate" crap... JP squads can get there too fast to be ambushed in the mid-game. HA is good but you can easily get eaten by ownos.
I hate aliens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem : That would be clan lvele play. And we're <b>not</b> talking about that. We're talking pub level play where everyone isn't very 1337 with flying a JP.
TBH, none of them are better than the other. The only thing that makes them look more powerful is the fact that you have players and the map to consider.
A nub HA train would stand a decent chance against anything, and a nub JP brigade would get annihilated.
Clan-level players on the other hand, will pwn with either.
You just gotta learn their weaknesses and try to cover it up with powerful weapons.
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Its definitely not that simple. Choosing the right upgrade at the right time can definitely mean winning or losing the game, in regards to a clan match. Some maps are just crap for jps, (eg. nancy, some would regard the vents as a plus, but in general the map is tight and there are few good jp rooms). HMG/JPs do nuts damage which makes them extremely good, but they still get downed fairly easily. Things you should consider when making the choice -
How many resources do you have? If you don't have many, you might want to consider going JP, they are cheaper and you don't have to equip the whole team for them to be effective - actually its highly advisable not to equip the whole team.
How many hives do they have? Do they have any onos?
2 Hive onos can be problematic for HA, but so can leaping skulks and 2 hive fades. I would tend to get HA for 2 hive situations because you are most likely going to need to seige, and HA is better for holding an area.
What chambers do they have?
SC just kills JPs, focus fades rip JPs to shreds and leaping focus skulks can even kill the best HMG JPs. Whereas JPs are bad when aliens have SC, HA is the perfect counter to SC.
For pub, I would always get HA unless I'm very strapped for res. I find that in general JPs have an negative overall effect in big games. Its hard babysitting the jps and they usually go in different directions. Even the best JPs die eventually, moreso without meds/ammo.
On the other hand, if you are on a map with some space to maneuver, JP's are pretty handy. A shotgun or hmg hit-and-run with JP's is effective, and also allows your marines to match the mobility of aliens in traversing the map. Not to mention there's not a damned thing those stupid Onos' can do about it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Summary: HA > JP imo.
That 120 res can be used to set up a PG, a siege, equip marines with HMGs and Shotties etc etc.
You know sometimes as Kharaa you're fighting for your hive's life, and then suddenly all the marines who are attacking your 2 remaining rts, raping your gorges and respawned skulks disappear just to get HA or JP?
Suddenly, in the 1 minute it takes to equip everyone, all the marine RTs go down, Kharaa get a breather to evolve onos and fades. Then if the JPs or HAs die, then GG marines.
In my experience, if you win with protolab upgrades, 80% of the time you were already winning anyway. Unfortunately, rushing for them ends up killing the marines' most important momentum - speed and aggression.
In my experiences marines usually win during frist 5-10 minutes (with maximum 0-2 in HA at 10 minute mark), if it takes longer, like 14-17 minutes, then large ammount of HAs is usually in the game, because aliens are very good and hold marines back (in this case marines must usually defend 2 hive lockdown and are loosing RTs being in defensive position until HAs eventually turn it back for rines).
TBH, none of them are better than the other. The only thing that makes them look more powerful is the fact that you have players and the map to consider.
A nub HA train would stand a decent chance against anything, and a nub JP brigade would get annihilated.
Clan-level players on the other hand, will pwn with either.
You just gotta learn their weaknesses and try to cover it up with powerful weapons. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is truth in what you say.
I'm not l33t with JP, just half decent, and it doesn't take that much practice. Map characteristics are really important here, no doubt.
-stooopsy
I also agree there is some degree of skill envolved in jetpacking, but jetpacks should not only be given out to '1337 clanners.' I myself am far from the best, but I've managed to down my share of onos singlehandedly so the rest of my team equiped in onos bait (heavies) can mow down all resistance devour free.