Concede improvement discussion.
Kalopsia
Join Date: 2003-05-15 Member: 16331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2003-05-15 Member: 16331Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Any chance we could see some stats on how many games end via a concede?
I believe about 70% of the games I play end with a concede (majority early on) and find it is ruining the game. Besides the fact I've just wasted 15 minutes of my life on a game ending prematurely, there's no sense of a real victory for the winning side.
It has been made too easy for the losing team to throw in the towel with a simple vote where as before majority of the team would need to F4 to have the same affect.
Personally I find it is ruining the fun in NS2 and I generally quit playing after a concede game but thats just me.
I know this has come up a few times but I'm interested in other peoples thoughts?
I believe about 70% of the games I play end with a concede (majority early on) and find it is ruining the game. Besides the fact I've just wasted 15 minutes of my life on a game ending prematurely, there's no sense of a real victory for the winning side.
It has been made too easy for the losing team to throw in the towel with a simple vote where as before majority of the team would need to F4 to have the same affect.
Personally I find it is ruining the fun in NS2 and I generally quit playing after a concede game but thats just me.
I know this has come up a few times but I'm interested in other peoples thoughts?
Comments
I barely play the classic mode anymore because of that. What's the point of investing into round when it's most likely gonna end up with concede anyway? pointless.
No victory, no loss. Time wasted.
If they however vote to quit the round smoothly via concede, then no feelings are hurt, no one really lost and no victory has been achieved, just as if the round never happened.
Concede was originally designed as a means to allow people to end a game that would drag on. Now people concede as a matter of course and skip the end game all together. Quite often all it takes is one lost hive or command chair and the "gg" start as people concede.
Conceded games should be the exception, not the rule. Concede sucks the fun right out of the game.
we all had countless games where our team was doing good because of our superior play, which TAKES EFFORT
then we get to the good stuff (exos, or higher lifeforms).
boom, enemy team conceded. cool.
waste of time playing. game is less fun because of concede, fact.
So the round end where one fully teched team stomps the other is capital punishment now? Interesting theory.... Not one that I agree with.
I think some people have suffered memory loss and have forgotten what happened prior to concede. That was every one either F4'd or left the server causing auto balance to kick in or even end the game abruptly due to uneven team numbers.
You can't force people to be hapless targets. Concede is still better than the server emptying out while the game still runs.
Hot damn I couldn't agree more. Like when I play SC2, I will have a fun 15 min game going with some solid macro and I will get the upper hand and my opponent will have the balls to say "GG" and fucking surrender and end the game. I don't accept that and kill all his buildings after he leaves anyways just to feel good about my play and the victory. Really show him. I usually make 20 ultralisks and kill his probes with them, so damn fun.
When I lose in sc2 I always float my buildings to corners of the map because I know my opponent really wants to earn his victory. Conceding in ns2 is a joke guys, make sure you save up enough res to randomly drop hives in places so people run around searching for them.
Ever heard of losing? What makes you think losing should be fun?
Imagine a soccer game, when 5 minutes into the game your team scores the goal, and the opponents just go "Well, we don't feel like we will win this one, let's start over"
PS: Winning by concede is still winning. Don't be a poor sport, and throw a fit because you didn't get to gloat by grinding them into the dirt wasting the time of the losing team.
Winning wasn't enough? You have to drag out the game so you can get your jollies grinding the other team into the dirt? So people can quit and go to a different server as the end of the game drags out every time.
Get over yourself!
Ever heard of snowballing effect?
Your example is really bad, in soccer doesn't matter if we score 1 or 10 times, we won't magically kick stuff better, we are just better than our opponents, we are playing at an even field (is that the correct expression?), we scored that many goals because we are better skilled, thats all.
In NS2, if you win all early engagements (0-5 minutes) you start snowballing (AKA becoming stronger and stronger) out of control to the point that you WILL one shot (well, kinda) your enemies without breaking a sweat.
the majority, if not ALL competitive matches ends on concede (gg calls), it's considered to be an act of good manners because everybody knows when a game is over or not.
What makes me think that playing a game should be fun?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I expected a response exactly like this one. Ah modern generation of gamers, instant gratification (games should be pure fun), infinite HP (hey, no one likes dying, right?), linear maps (who likes getting lost?) easy bosses (games should not be work!) and "Achievement unlocked" at every step...
Listen to yourselves... take your victory and shut up.
Pre-Concede Era:
"This game should have a surrender option like those modded servers!"
Post-Concede Era:
"Concede is killing the game"
End thread.
There are two reasons why you wouldn't want concede:
A) You enjoy the challenge of stacked scenarios. (this is legit)
OP is more like B. If a game is stacked to the point that it's impossible to win, then I don't see a point in playing any more, win or lose. Hell, even if I'm on the winning side, I'll concede to get a new game going. That's because the community cares about the part of the game that is uncertain and the strategies that will succeed or fail. If it's impossible to win, then all strategies will fail. If you had total map control, would you roll into the alien base with full upgrades and rack up the kill count? I wouldn't. There's no point in something that has no challenge, and I'd rather be playing the first five minutes of the next game. This is how the majority of the community thinks- NS2 isn't about steamrolling, it's about strategy , teamwork, and challenge.
If you like winning so much, join a newbie server and own them up.
I didn't expect a response like this one because its validity isn't even questionable, its non existent.
I've leveled 5 WoW characters to max level, and even after grinding through the same area on the exact same quest multiple times, it never stopped being fun.
I've played Dota game that were clearly lost within 5 minutes of the game starting, and it never stopped being fun.
Don't delude yourself. Games aren't about providing a supreme challenge to glorious gamers from the 80s. They are about providing the illusion of a seemingly insurmountable obstacle which can ultimately be overcome. Why? Because that is the recipe for providing fun to a human.
If you think that games are about anything other than fun, then you really shouldn't expect anyone to take your suggestions seriously.
Problem now is people lose the 2nd CC/hive and concede instantly, regardless of how many higher life forms are out or how close people are to getting them out, the 2-3 exos on the map might be the only exos for the next 5 mins but 9/10 people don't care and want to quit instantly.
Regardless of how many wanna be esport nerds keep typing shit up about SC2, RTS, manner and other stupid wank I hadn't heard of until SC2 came out this isn't a fucking RTS it's a hybrid at worst or a FPS with RTS elements.
remember how people use to F4 ???? With concede, you can vote for giving up whilst still playing the game, before concede, f4 was how you voted to give up. What this did was take you out of the game, it also took people from the other team out of the game because they were stuck in the spawn que due to auto team balance.
Anyway, the reason concede (used to be f4'ing) is the rule rather than the exception, is because team stacking is the rule, rather than the exception :P
With that aside, I do understand the grievance against having to start over suddenly, possibly even with a team that could do worse than the one you had previously, but honestly? Its a hybrid RTS/FPS game, it THRIVES on new rounds with possibly different outcomes. Perhaps things can be changed around with concede to give a more gratifying and solid notification to the winning team rather than the current system of all of a sudden being thrown a "YOU WIN" out of nowhere, but beyond that, there's nothing wrong with the existence of concede. Its a necessary evil of keeping people within the servers in a game that very often has one-sided snowballing matches, and even of just wanting to move on to a different round.
Hell, I've had plenty of rounds where someone wants to concede but the team disagreed with them and the round continued on. In fact, because of the number of people required to concede before it goes through, its absolutely safe to assume that at least half of the other team didn't want to put up with that round and wanted to move on to the next one where things could be different and a lot more fun. If you guys could chill out with the outright blood lust, maybe you'd learn to appreciate the fact that you made a team SURRENDER through your team's performance. With that said, you might be the masochistic type that loves trying to overcome a "challenge," but that sure as hell doesn't mean the people on the losing team want to deal with the cards they've been dealt, but if you're on that side you can always speak out your opinions alongside not voting concede yourself.
Now, obviously, opinions aren't going to match up about what kind of joy people get from what kind of victory, but the problem isn't with concede as much as it is with the players. If you removed concede, a losing team will just go to the ready room (or at least a good number of them, there's always those masochistic people who think they can overcome a bad g- oh). If you removed the ability to go to the ready room in the middle of the game, people who didn't want to put up with the round would either quit or go AFK, then the server would be emptied out and you'd have to spend time finding a-whole-nother server. If you punished people quitting the game while in it (think League of Legends quitting penalties)...well...you'd probably just get the AFK "can you just kill our base already" roll. Point is, there's never gonna be a patch that changes someone not having fun when losing and wanting to move on with their time using whatever measure they can to insure it, you can only really change the people you play with by joining servers you know there are good regulars, playing with a bunch of friends, playing in private servers, trying out competitively (although in every competitive scene ever its considered bad manners to not GG when everyone knows a game is lost, so, maybe not that..), or try and help the losers by joining their side yourself.