Waiting for Res is boring

countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Posts: 820Members
edited March 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
When I lose my Lifeform I always feel powerless and a little bored.

What about slower ResFlow for Aliens and bring Res for kill back? it was a great motivator in NS1. Or some else opportunity to get more Res? Some dynamics in the ResFlow would be nice. Staring at a linear raising number from time to time is not really funny. Especially when you have 45 Res. In NS1 yu said: Cool, 2-3 Kills and I can go Fade. Now it is: Yawn...5 more.....

(I know you can help as a skulk but anyway)

EDIT: Would be nice, if some people would make a point on 'Or some else opportunity to get more Res' as this isn't supposed to be a RFK-Thread only :D there are enough discussions about that.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • RhodriRhodri Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17575Posts: 415Members
    I disagree as RFK was a nightmare to balance, and can only be worse now fade and onos aren't hive dependant. If you want to evolve faster then focus on securing res nodes for your team.
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  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Slowing down res flow (at least for Pres) and adding RFK would help the onos/fade situation. Not everyone would get to the same Pres point at the same time. You would see a stagger in lifeforms and reward the people killing the other team.
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Posts: 820Members
    There was not 1 game in NS1 I played that I would call imbalanced due to RFK.
    But I don't want to start a debate like in Bhop threads :)

    The thinking is:

    In RTS it's normal to have this kind of ResFlow. In Shooters you usually get rewarded for personal actions. So make teamres linear and Pres dynamic. I know it's not easy to balance, but....it's just boring. At the point you have 3 Onoses, there's not much room for getting new RTs. It's more about securing Hives from ARC Rushes right now.
  • countbasiecountbasie Join Date: 2008-12-27 Member: 65884Posts: 820Members
    QUOTE (RisingSun @ Mar 28 2012, 06:42 PM) »
    Slowing down res flow (at least for Pres) and adding RFK would help the onos/fade situation. Not everyone would get to the same Pres point at the same time. You would see a stagger in lifeforms and reward the people killing the other team.


    That's what I mean. Rewardings, Dynamics.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 730Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited March 2012
    There is a RFK thread in the ideas and suggestions forum.


    QUOTE (Anticept @ Mar 26 2012, 09:54 PM) »
    This used to be in the game a few builds ago, it was removed BECAUSE of turtlefests.


    Personally I like it better the way it is at the moment. It kind of forces you to protect your resource towers, instead of ramboing into the marine base for some res.

    You might say "it's not very intuitive to force people what they should do", but I think this just helps team play.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    If you slow down res and add RFK you won't make it any less boring, you'll make it more boring, because rather than having a guaranteed income, it will be slower any time you don't get a lot of kills.

    So, it'll just mean it takes longer to get money for most players.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 730Members, Reinforced - Gold
    QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Mar 28 2012, 08:03 PM) »
    If you slow down res and add RFK you won't make it any less boring, you'll make it more boring, because rather than having a guaranteed income, it will be slower any time you don't get a lot of kills.

    So, it'll just mean it takes longer to get money for most players.


    good point
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    imo the game is to fast as is, but that is my opinion.
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Posts: 945Members
    res just seems so slow as gorge. place a few mini cysts, couple hydras, and wait... and wait.. and wait..
    Philadelphia is a PvP server
  • kingmobkingmob Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3650Posts: 705Members, Constellation
    I myself was never a fan for RFK.
    It could make the end of games take forever in NS1.

    Sure it gave me a shotgun/flamethrower/whatever faster...but it never rewarded any sort of planning.
    It only rewards killing.
    And yes I realize killing is the root of the game.

    But rewarding just killing gets nothing built or defended or any of the other things you really need to succeed.
    Everyone just wanders out and kills so they can get a new cool weapon.
    I myself was too focused on K/D ratio with RFK in NS2.

    See this doesn't apply to an RTS. In an RTS I build small armies that are a sacrifice to the other player just so I can secure an area.
    In NS2 sometimes you just have to keep jumping through the portal until the area is secured.
    You are doing it because the Comm says so and you NEED that area.
    and you die again and again...but enough volume and enough spare kills you get the area.
  • TravCarpTravCarp Join Date: 2010-06-04 Member: 71962Posts: 194Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Mar 28 2012, 02:12 PM) »
    res just seems so slow as gorge. place a few mini cysts, couple hydras, and wait... and wait.. and wait..


    That's why I rarely ever place cysts unless I need too, it cuts down on my res. :( I always depend on the comm to place cysts because it impacts them less. I always do place 1 at the start of the game in crushing machine though along with a hydra if it is the Mineshaft. :p (I just don't try to connect it - -;)
    A really good link/tool I use to keep up with what is going on in the NS2 world. link
  • thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Posts: 491Members
    I think the main problem isn't boredom, its players having the same res at the same time ---> triple oni and such. RFK could solve it, but would it solve it with balance?
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,426Members
    Gorge is the only class where I feel res is too slow.

    Once I've put one or two hydras down along with a couple of cysts that's it. I'm literally watching the res counter waiting for it to reach 10, then a hydra and it's back to zero. No points for helping build the team's cyst network, healing the structures and building defenses.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 730Members, Reinforced - Gold
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (kingmob @ Mar 28 2012, 08:23 PM) »
    See this doesn't apply to an RTS. In an RTS I build small armies that are a sacrifice to the other player just so I can secure an area.
    In NS2 sometimes you just have to keep jumping through the portal until the area is secured.
    You are doing it because the Comm says so and you NEED that area.
    and you die again and again...but enough volume and enough spare kills you get the area.


    /agree


    QUOTE (thefonz @ Mar 28 2012, 08:30 PM) »
    RFK could solve it, but would it solve it with balance?

    It would increase the gap between good players and new players. Good players may go fade, while new players have to stay skulk.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • RuntehRunteh Join Date: 2010-06-26 Member: 72163Posts: 1,883Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Res for kill is not a good thing, I thought we learned that lesson a while ago.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Posts: 2,556Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer admin
    QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Mar 28 2012, 06:12 PM) »
    res just seems so slow as gorge. place a few mini cysts, couple hydras, and wait... and wait.. and wait..

    That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.

    --Cory
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (Runteh @ Mar 28 2012, 06:41 PM) »
    Res for kill is not a good thing, I thought we learned that lesson a while ago.


    I could say the same about other things that havent been learned yet :/

    QUOTE (Piggy @ Mar 28 2012, 06:46 PM) »
    That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.

    --Cory


    This sounds actually pretty cool. Easier to set up defense and re-setup stuff.

    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Gorge CostanzaGorge Costanza Join Date: 2012-03-16 Member: 148861Posts: 66Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 11:46 AM) »
    That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.

    --Cory


    That sounds better, as long as the limits aren't too low.

    If a Gorge evolves into a different form, are those structures lost?
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Posts: 945Members
    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 02:46 PM) »
    That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.

    --Cory


    sounds great, just a couple concerns

    1. a way to destroy certain hydras to allow relocation

    2. an incremental cap. ie. 5 hydras at 1 hive, 10 at 2, etc. or commander research so marines aren't running into a boatload of hydras at the game's start.
    Philadelphia is a PvP server
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Posts: 2,556Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer admin
    QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Mar 28 2012, 07:43 PM) »
    sounds great, just a couple concerns

    1. a way to destroy certain hydras to allow relocation

    2. an incremental cap. ie. 5 hydras at 1 hive, 10 at 2, etc. or commander research so marines aren't running into a boatload of hydras at the game's start.

    Yeah, he will be able to "eat" his hydras, and other structures. So, he can replace them again in a different spot.

    Also, I think there is going to be an incremental cap, at different Hive levels, but not quite sure.

    --Cory
  • cH40z-LordcH40z-Lord Join Date: 2009-07-26 Member: 68269Posts: 94Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I hope there will be also some limit for sentries to balance it.
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    Sweet, no more limited lifeform options as Gorge :)
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  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 07:46 PM) »
    That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.

    --Cory


    Nifty, if you combine this with the ability to move hydras around it should make the gorge a much more viable class, essentially turning it into a mobile fortification. Bring a couple with you to fortify a hive room and provide healing/shielding to growing structures and defending players.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,160Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    delicious
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  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Posts: 730Members, Reinforced - Gold
    One question: will your structures die when you are no longer a gorge (death/evolve)?
  • MisterNubsMisterNubs Join Date: 2012-03-01 Member: 147912Posts: 568Members
    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 02:46 PM) »
    That will be changing soon. The plan is to have the Gorge be able to build cysts/hydras/goo walls, etc, without any res cost, just a limit on how many he can build at any one time. So, less waiting, and more strategizing as to what to build and where.

    --Cory

    Yeah, he will be able to "eat" his hydras, and other structures. So, he can replace them again in a different spot.

    Also, I think there is going to be an incremental cap, at different Hive levels, but not quite sure.

    --Cory


    This would probably be the only way to get me to touch the gorge. I would definitely suggest going with incremental caps based on the number of hives.

    Are you guys still looking at making life forms cheaper based on the current life form? 30 res cheaper if you go to fade from a lerk.
  • DJPenguinDJPenguin Useless Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18538Posts: 945Members
    QUOTE (MisterNubs @ Mar 28 2012, 04:54 PM) »
    Are you guys still looking at making life forms cheaper based on the current life form? 30 res cheaper if you go to fade from a lerk.


    that would be broken for fades > onos
    Philadelphia is a PvP server
  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    I believe the Hyper-mutation evolution on the Spur would cut down on lifeform costs, which leads me to wonder if Shift tech will become go-to first for most games...
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  • MisterNubsMisterNubs Join Date: 2012-03-01 Member: 147912Posts: 568Members
    QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Mar 28 2012, 04:58 PM) »
    that would be broken for fades > onos


    It doesn't have to be the original cost for the lower life form to higher one.

    Heck, it could be 10 res cheaper from going fade to onos and I'll still be happy. Besides, Marines can pick up fallen marines weapons for free.

    QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Mar 28 2012, 05:01 PM) »
    I believe the Hyper-mutation evolution on the Spur would cut down on lifeform costs, which leads me to wonder if Shift tech will become go-to first for most games...


    I'll have to look up the hyper-mutation. Haven't heard anything about that. Talk about freaking boring for the Alien commander already having a required hive choice at the beginning of the game.... augh. I already know attaching recall to the shift structures will causes this.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,613Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Mar 28 2012, 03:04 PM) »
    Yeah, he will be able to "eat" his hydras, and other structures. So, he can replace them again in a different spot.

    Also, I think there is going to be an incremental cap, at different Hive levels, but not quite sure.

    --Cory

    I like this idea, except I think it will get annoying having an unwanted hydra sitting across the map with no way to ever rebuild it except to waddle all the way over there. Personally I would rather they be time limited instead(or in addition).
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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