Xenocide planned?

thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Posts: 491Members
you took my devour, please dont take my xeno
Exactly as the title states, is Xenocide coming to NS2?

I could see it becoming a problem with the egg spawning system (a couple xenoing skulks use up all the eggs). But as a 3rd hive ability I would expect the aliens to have plenty of eggs.

Also, a teaser.

Later this week, I hope (spare time is rare for me lately), I will post another Devour thread. Yes, another devour thread. The difference is I would like it to be a very organized and well though out discussion. So if you want to be part of that, pro or con, this is a heads up to start your thinking. I will try to set the tone with my OP and I hope people will reply in kind. That means I would NOT like to see a bunch of short, silly, and frankly useless comments of yes/no or any simply general ######.

The end goal of this thread would be to present solid ideas (NOT demands) to the devs about implementing devour, at least in the beta to try it out.

AND/OR

Help explain to the devour wanters like me why devour is not a good idea and should not be implemented.

I feel the community is very divided on this issue with no clear majority.
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Comments

  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Posts: 2,426Members
    It'll be in the next build, or the one after that
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress

  • ArkantiArkanti pub baddie Join Date: 2011-07-22 Member: 111781Posts: 694Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited February 2012
    Xenocide is already a third hive ability, it's your third weapon as a skulk. Once you activate it you get a three second count down before exploding.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • AegisXIAegisXI Join Date: 2012-02-11 Member: 144985Posts: 55Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Arkanti @ Feb 28 2012, 02:57 PM) »
    Xenocide is already a third hive ability, it's your third weapon as a skulk. Once you activate it you get a three second count down before exploding.

    What? I dont remember it being implanted in the game yet
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    SIGFINAL-3-1.jpg
  • thefonzthefonz Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105847Posts: 491Members
    Sweet, thanks for the info.
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Posts: 3,854Members
    Xenocide is a really dumb ability, if your only way to keep skulks competitive is to allow them to kill people when they inevitably die, you need to rethink skulks.
  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Posts: 1,041Members
    Xenocide feels underpowered. I haven't tried it in the competitive scene, but I imagine it will be the same.

    I'd say increase the damage, but reduce skulk health to increase likelihood of the ability being denied.
  • GadxGadx Join Date: 2003-03-22 Member: 14788Posts: 128Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    I doubt the damage on it is final by any means. In NS1 it did quite a bit of damage with leap, I am sure it will be viable late game.
    Rehevkor in game
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Posts: 44Members
    QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Feb 28 2012, 03:49 PM) »
    Xenocide feels underpowered. I haven't tried it in the competitive scene, but I imagine it will be the same.

    I'd say increase the damage, but reduce skulk health to increase likelihood of the ability being denied.




    Just resonating what has been said on many other threads, mid-late game the skulk needs more going on for it not less health or making it weaker
    "Oh I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!" -Jean-Luc Picard
  • PricePrice Join Date: 2003-09-27 Member: 21247Posts: 1,281Members
    yes its already in, i only noitce because of a bug(?)
    the first time i hear it, i guess its a bug, because the screaming sound is like the hive crying sound.
    never used it but i saw a lot of skulks exploding next to me, ill never die about that ^^
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  • PsiWarpPsiWarp Gifted Gorge Richmond, B.C., Canada Join Date: 2010-08-28 Member: 73810Posts: 1,566Members
    edited February 2012
    I forget, how much armor does LV.3 armor upgrade give? Since Xenocide's damage type is Puncture, it should deal 165 to players instead of 110 damage. Also, 10 meters splash is nothing to laugh at :P
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Posts: 1,041Members
    QUOTE (John Blackthorne @ Feb 28 2012, 04:00 PM) »
    Just resonating what has been said on many other threads, mid-late game the skulk needs more going on for it not less health or making it weaker

    Damage increase is not making it weaker.
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Posts: 44Members
    QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Feb 28 2012, 04:12 PM) »
    Damage increase is not making it weaker.

    Reducing health is.
    "Oh I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!" -Jean-Luc Picard
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Posts: 2,448Members, Constellation
    If you want to try xenocide right now... There is a bug that will make you explode.
    The way I was able to make it happen was as follows.

    As a. Skulk, chomp a power node and then switch to parasite and parasite the node. Now switch back to bite and start to bite the node again, you should explode with a scream and yellow flash.

    It happened to me 2 times the other night with people witnessing it and not knowing what happened.

    Original NS bad ass
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    QUOTE (Majin @ Feb 28 2012, 03:18 PM) »
    If you want to try xenocide right now... There is a bug that will make you explode.
    The way I was able to make it happen was as follows.

    As a. Skulk, chomp a power node and then switch to parasite and parasite the node. Now switch back to bite and start to bite the node again, you should explode with a scream and yellow flash.

    It happened to me 2 times the other night with people witnessing it and not knowing what happened.

    You didn't "glitch" bite into exploding you, you just switched to xenocide and activated it.

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Posts: 1,041Members
    QUOTE (John Blackthorne @ Feb 28 2012, 04:15 PM) »
    Reducing health is.


    You're right. If we made skulk damage kill all marines in a 10 foot radius, but reduced his HP by 10, that would totally nerf him.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Feb 28 2012, 03:49 PM) »
    You're right. If we made skulk damage kill all marines in a 10 foot radius, but reduced his HP by 10, that would totally nerf him.

    I think the concern is that non-xenocide-using Skulks would be unfairly impacted by a balance adjustment such as that.

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • KalabalanaKalabalana Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22859Posts: 1,041Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 28 2012, 05:06 PM) »
    I think the concern is that non-xenocide-using Skulks would be unfairly impacted by a balance adjustment such as that.


    If you don't use the Xenocide ability you would not be affected by the health drop.

    But again, this was just my suggestion, that would work, but by no means do I consider this an ideal solution to balance.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    So perhaps activating xenocide drops your maximum health in the time before you explode? I could see that working. Might make xenocide a sort of default-tactic for skulks that run low on health in enemy territory, though, since they won't take the penalties.

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Posts: 44Members
    I could see this working as well, on a side note Tech what do you think of Xenocide right now as being a third hive skill?
    "Oh I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!" -Jean-Luc Picard
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Posts: 133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    Third hive=Xenocide

    Xenocide=weak

    Yes i've gotten 3 marines in 1 xeno but theres times when i xeno, bite a rine and blow up and he just walks off like it didnt happen. Also its pretty damn loud, I thought at first our hive was dying over and over.

    I'm hopping its a placeholder and they put it in just so we could expect more of it later.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (John Blackthorne @ Feb 28 2012, 04:44 PM) »
    I could see this working as well, on a side note Tech what do you think of Xenocide right now as being a third hive skill?


    Well being a 3rd hive skill automatically makes something a siege-breaker or hammer-dropper in my opinion, because most of the maps I've played on focus on preventing or suppressing the evolution of the 2nd hive. The 3rd hive is either easy to keep down (and thus not a concern), or impossible to stop (because the game is basically over).

    With that in mind, I'd like to see Xenocide actually do something damaging to the marine team. At the moment, all it does is kill (probably base-camping and weapon-retrieving) marines, and as a 3rd hive ability that isn't really amazing. The fact that it forces you to respawn isn't great either. Overall, I'd rate it situational and underwhelming; by the time you have 3 hives up, the only people still playing skulks are people skilled enough with their movement to get kills without exploding.

    If resources were more scarce, Xenocide would be a great ability. It would turn even the most unskilled face-rushing skulk into a deadly threat. As-is, the people who need to suicide bomb to get skulk kills all go Onos, Gorge, or Lerk.

    If you want Xenocide to be amazing, you have to give it the ability to do something a normal 3rd-hive skulk can't do on his own.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Posts: 44Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 28 2012, 05:59 PM) »
    Well being a 3rd hive skill automatically makes something a siege-breaker or hammer-dropper in my opinion, because most of the maps I've played on focus on preventing or suppressing the evolution of the 2nd hive. The 3rd hive is either easy to keep down (and thus not a concern), or impossible to stop (because the game is basically over).

    With that in mind, I'd like to see Xenocide actually do something damaging to the marine team. At the moment, all it does is kill (probably base-camping and weapon-retrieving) marines, and as a 3rd hive ability that isn't really amazing. The fact that it forces you to respawn isn't great either. Overall, I'd rate it situational and underwhelming; by the time you have 3 hives up, the only people still playing skulks are people skilled enough with their movement to get kills without exploding.

    If resources were more scarce, Xenocide would be a great ability. It would turn even the most unskilled face-rushing skulk into a deadly threat. As-is, the people who need to suicide bomb to get skulk kills all go Onos, Gorge, or Lerk. If you want Xenocide to be amazing, you have to give it the ability to do something a normal 3rd-hive skulk can't do on his own.



    Thank you for your insight Tech it is greatly appreciated.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    "Oh I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!" -Jean-Luc Picard
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    edited February 2012
    Now granted, I'm not a NS1 player, so any insight or opinions I offer should be taken with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • zastelszastels Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23731Posts: 388Members
    edited February 2012
    xenocide from NS1 was incredibly awesome.

    From alien perspective, if you were low on res you could do your best to xeno on a group of rines. It was SO much fun when you killed 4+ marines.

    From marine perspective, you needed to have either a jetpack or heavy armor to properly repel constant xenocides. Otherwise if you turtled, you'd slowly be beaten down. Blowing up on a bunch of people repairing and defending home base when when it was most useful.

    I really enjoyed this gameplay aspect and I'd like it to return.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • John BlackthorneJohn Blackthorne Join Date: 2012-02-23 Member: 147245Posts: 44Members
    edited February 2012
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 28 2012, 06:07 PM) »
    Now granted, I'm not a NS1 player, so any insight or opinions I offer should be taken with the caveat that I don't know what I'm talking about.

    No worries Tech I keep that in mind with every post.

    QUOTE (zastels @ Feb 28 2012, 06:08 PM) »
    xenocide from NS1 was incredibly awesome.

    From alien perspective, if you were low on res you could do your best to xeno on a group of rines. It was SO much fun when you killed 4+ marines.

    From marine perspective, you needed to have either a jetpack or heavy armor to properly repel constant xenocides. Otherwise if you turtled, you'd slowly be beaten down. Blowing up on a bunch of people repairing and defending home base when when it was most useful.

    I really enjoyed this gameplay aspect and I'd like it to return.

    That sounds pretty neat zas, I like Tech never played the first NS so I hope to see xenocide turn into something amazing.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    "Oh I know Hamlet. And what he might say with irony, I say with conviction: What a piece of work is man! How noble in reason, how infinite in faculty, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like a god!" -Jean-Luc Picard
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    Well that sort of Xenocide just isn't likely to return under the current resource model. When everyone can afford to go Onos, why would anyone (but the most die-hard skulk fans) go skulk?

    Make lifeforms much scarcer, and we'll see Xenocide become a powerful 3rd-hive mechanic again.

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • FlayraFlayra Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment San Francisco Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 3Posts: 6,819Super Administrators, NS2 Developer, Subnautica Developer admin
    Yep, it's planned and mostly implemented.

    It needs a little work before it can be released though.
    Charlie Cleveland
    Game Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Posts: 133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    In my perspective xenocide was extremely useful late game. Did great damage, caused chaos and did not feed marines res(skulks are easy kills late game).
    I hope it will be just as amazing in NS2!
  • NakorsonNakorson Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140253Posts: 554Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    QUOTE (ÒŗăNģё @ Feb 28 2012, 07:02 PM) »
    In my perspective xenocide was extremely useful late game. Did great damage, caused chaos and did not feed marines res(skulks are easy kills late game).
    I hope it will be just as amazing in NS2!


    And gives the players without res a chance to do at least a bit useful thing.
  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,865Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2012
    Nvm
    Post edited by Unknown User on

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    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
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