Aliens

RisingSunRisingSun RisingFlorida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited August 2011 in NS2 General Discussion
A balance of classes
Gave 184 a shot today. Played each alien class and as a fade i really am not that good or a skulk for that matter. My FPS drops low and lag due to no servers being near where i live makes it hard to play. My views which tend to be old school (NS1). This is what i see so far and what i think could benefit the game. I'm only covering alien classes and roles there in.

Skulk - Base unit. Good vs buildings and in groups. Not effective as a solo aggressor.

The skulk in my opinion is where it needs to be. Tough enough in groups and great at killing buildings. I miss the old bunny hop because mobility for skulks feels so sluggish and i miss the old skill based movement.

Lerk - Support class. A unit that can slow advancing forces and soften them up.

The lerk is in a confused state right now. It can not take many direct hits, but it is being forced into medium to short range combat. Spikes are shot but have crap range. Spores are also shot with crap range as well. I would really like to see this as the "scout" class. Great movement and the ability to cover the map quickly. Adding a spore cloud that when walked through would mark the opposing players with a pheromone would be cool. Much like the skulks parasite but in a cloud. This could give the lerk a niche of scouting ahead and making a safe retreat. When pressed at the last hive or another choke point the lerk adds support with gas to get the marines moving. Umbra would be nice to see back in the game. Giving the lerk less reasons to attack putting it self at bodily harm will allow for the skulk (in groups), fade, and onos to shine. Emphasizing the need for only a limited amount of lerks (because let's face it. they are annoying as marines. stupid gas)and making them still useful late game when heavy armor is out (gas is useless).

Fade - Primary assault class. Great vs players, ok at movement, and terrible vs buildings.

I also like the fade over all. When i played as one i got the feeling that too many fades would be bad. Sure you could kill the marines but it was always nice to have a skulk around to chomp structures. Movement needs to be increased somehow since blink got hit with the nerf bat due to being too effective in combat. Making it pretty useless to get around the map with.

Gorge - Support class. Great vs buildings, great at friendly player support, terrible solo.

Without the roll of building key structures anymore the gorge has become more of a field medic and comm support. As structures gain micro abilities i think we will be the comm leave the hive less and less. The gorge needs something else to do. Heal spray and bile bomb are an excellent start. It would be nice to see a mini everything of the commanders. Mini-shades and mini-crags could be dropped for their passive abilities but not the comms micro abilities. A little restructuring could make this very effective without taking away from the alien comm but helping give the gorge a purpose.

Onos - Bullet sponge (not much else known).

What is this classes roll? Something tougher than a fade and deadlier to buildings that a skulk? Not to sure myself =)


So the alien team as a whole needs: A comm, Lerk (if scouting was put in), 1-2 fades max, and skulks (later game onos). A redefined Gorge could round out this team, making this a 6 man team. It would be nice to see every class be useful end game which i think UWE is very close to achieving. I am very excited to see a great game evolve before my eyes. If i got any of the roles please post here or what you would like to see classes do. Not so much single moves but as a whole.

Example: Lerk as a ranged death dealer. Snipe, long range spore, and long range spikes. Role being to stay out of the fight and pick off the weak while still supporting the team.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 11,519Forum Admins, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue mod
    It can break down doors, crash into buildings (stomp will disable them for a while?) and can absorb bullets

    Onos would make you wish F4 was still ingame ("rr" is lame)

    Forum Admin "guardian of the magic cookiejar" Admin/Moderator I mostly use a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Existence Unknown

    98 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • jerkstoresupjerkstoresup Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105840Posts: 14Members
    Your views are "oldschool NS1", yet you don't know what the Onos was used for?

    I'm pretty sure UW has a clear idea for the role of each class. But hey, these forums need as many redundant posts as possible I guess.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Posts: 1,731Members
    I agree, anything that has already been discussed shouldn't discussed again by different people NEVER EVER ! Specially if the post is well written.

    Seriously, please, be nice jerkstoresup.
  • jerkstoresupjerkstoresup Join Date: 2011-06-22 Member: 105840Posts: 14Members
    I agree, the overwhelming amount of ad nauseam threads here which contribute nothing towards NS2's development deserve kindly worded replies without any blunt criticism. Especially if the poster is incapable of being concise and typed a book!

    Seriously, please, forgive me.
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Jerk- Sorry if i havent seen a post that relates to the alien team as a whole and the roles which they play. I just see a million threads about fades being OP and Beacon topics. My bad for trying to draw a bigger picture to talk about, but hey thanks for bumping my thread with your nonsense a couple times.

    So let me clarify my post. I want to discuss the roles of each class and how they fit as a team. Not individual classes solo. I think it will give people a better understanding of where the devs are headed and how to better assist them in our criticism.

    Above i list the Onos as uncertain because i do not know where he fits in all this except a giant res dump.
  • azimaithazimaith Join Date: 2011-07-03 Member: 107686Posts: 229Members
    edited August 2011
    The Skulk is a great solo aggressor, especially since if you fail it's hardly penalizing. He just attacks from different angles, unlike the Fade. Skulks, when moved properly, are very difficult to hit and can be very hard to pin down, you don't need a glitch to make them work.

    At the moment, the skulk is probably a little too weak against shotguns, as they can kill you instantly from a fair distance off, unlike before, the rifle against the skulk is now right on however, which brings me back to something I had suggested way earlier, the rifle needed a slight boost, the skulk didn't need a nerf, albeit temporary.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Smug_LobsterSmug_Lobster Join Date: 2009-06-22 Member: 67903Posts: 109Members
    Lerks are still a bit decent at killing enemies with spikes, but when you play as a lerk VS someone who can actually aim, you are screwed. I think if lerk is going to remain a squishy close range class, their res cost should be reduced.
    ¸.¤*¨¨*¤.¸¸...¸.¤*¨¨*¤.
    \¸.¤ dad, im g4y ¤*¨*¤.
    .\¸.¤*¨¨*¤.¸¸.¸.¤*¨¨*¤.
    ..\
    ☻/
    .▌
    / \
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    QUOTE (azimaith @ Aug 11 2011, 03:14 PM) »
    The Skulk is a great solo aggressor, especially since if you fail it's hardly penalizing. He just attacks from different angles, unlike the Fade. Skulks, when moved properly, are very difficult to hit and can be very hard to pin down, you don't need a glitch to make them work.

    At the moment, the skulk is probably a little too weak against shotguns, as they can kill you instantly from a fair distance off, unlike before, the rifle against the skulk is now right on however, which brings me back to something I had suggested way earlier, the rifle needed a slight boost, the skulk didn't need a nerf, albeit temporary.


    I agree, it is our base lifeform after all and needs to be useful throughout the game. A baseline increase would be nice so that it would scale better with later game upgrades.

    But you gave me an idea. Why not have the gorge cost 0 res so that we can chooce which base lifeform we want to be. The old NS1 gorge had more to do and the res cost made sense. Why now though? You could choose the aggressor or heal/support.

    QUOTE (Smug_Lobster @ Aug 11 2011, 03:38 PM) »
    Lerks are still a bit decent at killing enemies with spikes, but when you play as a lerk VS someone who can actually aim, you are screwed. I think if lerk is going to remain a squishy close range class, their res cost should be reduced.


    Their roll still isnt clear. As you said the close range destroys lerks and it will only get worse with marine tech in later patches. With a clearly defined roll it would be useful the whole game.
  • subshadowsubshadow Join Date: 2003-04-21 Member: 15710Posts: 317Members
    QUOTE (RisingSun @ Aug 11 2011, 06:07 PM) »
    But you gave me an idea. Why not have the gorge cost 0 res so that we can chooce which base lifeform we want to be. The old NS1 gorge had more to do and the res cost made sense. Why now though? You could choose the aggressor or heal/support.


    This will give alot of gorgerushes at the beginning of the game. Maybe if all lifeforms need to be researched at the hive first this could be interesting. But on the other hand, some people like to gorge immediatly when the round starts to drop cysts and hydras.
  • vizioNzvizioNz InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Posts: 661Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    QUOTE (jerkstoresup @ Aug 11 2011, 04:25 PM) »
    Your views are "oldschool NS1", yet you don't know what the Onos was used for?

    I'm pretty sure UW has a clear idea for the role of each class. But hey, these forums need as many redundant posts as possible I guess.

    +1

    Also, can anyone tell me how in the hell an ONOS is going to navigate such a tightly confined map like summit? He won't be able to jump in 70% of the map...
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 12 2011, 08:01 AM) »
    +1

    Also, can anyone tell me how in the hell an ONOS is going to navigate such a tightly confined map like summit? He won't be able to jump in 70% of the map...


    wondered how long it would take. Go back to your crap threads. This is for serious discussion. You are not welcome.
  • vizioNzvizioNz InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24595Posts: 661Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    edited August 2011
    QUOTE (RisingSun @ Aug 12 2011, 10:28 AM) »
    wondered how long it would take. Go back to your crap threads. This is for serious discussion. You are not welcome.

    Well here is some great feedback for you, stop trying to figure out a game that isn't complete.
    Skulk - I don't have an issue killing early game/mid game/late game. Stop trying to bring back an old exploit in game mechanics (bunny hopping). (you reference NS1)

    Lerk - Can you say Lerk 2.0? Stop complaining about gas and learn how to shoot. Lerks aren't an issue to people that know how to aim and click (except against Tempest).

    Fade - Giving Fades the ability to sprint similar to the Marines (2 Legs). Your problem is solved.

    Gorge - Heal spray and Bile bomb are an excellent start? Really, last time I checked those have always been apart of Natural Selection? Stop trying to make the Gorge similar to NS1, he has his role and he will continue to improve. Ohh, and how is he going to shoot out a mini-shade/crag from his mouth (doesn't even make sense)? That's the Alien Commanders job, let's not make the only reason to be an Alien Commander is to drop the Hive. Do you want the Gorge to be able to do that too bud? (you reference NS1)

    Onos - It's not even in the game, moving on... (you reference NS1)

    Stop trying to make the game into an NS1 clone, every one of your topic/threads/replies always relate to "why isn't it like NS1, I miss NS1". It's clear you have separation issues, but this isn't Counter-Strike Source, UWE is trying to progress into the future, not be held up re-living it's past.


    Your in no way being constructed or suggesting anything useful to UWE in the current state they are in development. We need a forum MOD to create a Forum called "NS2 Same ole' same ole'". You can be the MOD of it, sound good?

    Anyway, my lolipop is awaiting your lick, please do.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • LUSITANERLUSITANER Join Date: 2010-09-19 Member: 74086Posts: 270Members
    + 1 for the gorge mini-shades, mini-crags (mini-whip maybe is lame..)
    "If Brazillians speak portuguese of Brazil, then Japanese speak portuguese of Japan" - Troll.

    Player of NS1
    Playing since B186
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    QUOTE (vizionz @ Aug 12 2011, 08:41 AM) »
    Well here is some great feedback for you, stop trying to figure out a game that isn't complete.
    Skulk - I don't have an issue killing early game/mid game/late game. Stop trying to bring back an old exploit in game mechanics (bunny hopping). (you reference NS1)

    Lerk - Can you say Lerk 2.0? Stop complaining about gas and learn how to shoot. Lerks aren't an issue to people that know how to aim and click (except against Tempest).

    Fade - Giving Fades the ability to sprint similar to the Marines (2 Legs). Your problem is solved.

    Gorge - Heal spray and Bile bomb are an excellent start? Really, last time I checked those have always been apart of Natural Selection? Stop trying to make the Gorge similar to NS1, he has his role and he will continue to improve. Ohh, and how is he going to shooot out a mini-shade/crag from his mouth (doesn't even make sense)? That's the Alien Commanders job, let's not make the only reason to be an Alien Commander is to drop the. Do you want the Gorge to be able to do that too bud? (you reference NS1)

    Onos - It's not even in the game, moving on... (you reference NS1)

    Stop trying to make the game into an NS1 clone, every one of your topic/threads/replies always relate to "why isn't it like NS1, I miss NS1". It's clear you have separation issues, but this isn't Counter-Strike Source, UWE is trying to progress into the future, not be held up re-living it's past.


    Your in no way being constructed or suggesting anything useful to UWE in the current state they are in development. We need a forum MOD to create a Forum called "NS2 Same ole' same ole'". You can be the MOD of it, sound good?

    Anyway, my lolipop is awaiting your lick, please do.


    Didnt read any of it because you are an idiot and not worth my time.

    QUOTE (LUSITANER @ Aug 12 2011, 09:12 AM) »
    + 1 for the gorge mini-shades, mini-crags (mini-whip maybe is lame..)


    Mini-whip would be the hydra i think.
  • kaffaljidhmakaffaljidhma Join Date: 2011-07-14 Member: 110392Posts: 125Members
    Well, I can see this thread was definitely made in good faith
  • BarerRudeROCBarerRudeROC Join Date: 2010-10-01 Member: 74264Posts: 256Members
    Starve the ego, feed the soul guys.
    image
  • RisingSunRisingSun Rising Florida Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28015Posts: 899Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    An idea that sprang from this thread with the gorge. Let me know what you all think, well most of you all.

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=114617
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