Political explainer pic

AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Posts: 8,187Forum Moderators, Constellation mod
Please chip in and tell me how accurate it is
I make it sound like I made it, but not so.
From http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/ we get:
image

Comments

  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    I much prefer the political compass.

    Not as pretty, but I think more accurate. I'm socially a libertarian, but I favor economic regulation so you'd find me at ~-5,-5 (near Gandhi) politically.
    imageimage
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Posts: 2,604Members, NS1 Playtester
    Yes, it's a circle. Extreme left and right are nearly the same person.
    -Rob
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Rob @ Oct 21 2009, 01:51 PM) »
    Yes, it's a circle. Extreme left and right are nearly the same person.

    Assuming they're authoritarian yes.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Posts: 2,604Members, NS1 Playtester
    QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Oct 21 2009, 01:56 PM) »
    Assuming they're authoritarian yes.


    I'm talking about passion for the topic. Authoritarianism is just a modifier describing how someone acts, not how they decide when to act. You could have Authoritarian state of moderates. Probably it wouldn't get anywhere, though. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make politics fit into neat little boxes on a neat little graph. I don't know if it can be done.

    There aren't many "attributes" of a political body that are 1 to 1 tradeoff spaces, where you increase one while decreasing the other. Instead, most of our political concepts (fascism, nationalism, dictatorships, despotism, democracy, republic, militants, pacifists, etc) just describe particular behavior and aren't mutually exclusive of each other.

    Some things you can draw conclusions on. Like say your general level of apathy. Others might not agree with this, but I think it would be pretty hard to stay moderate about a topic if you're generally apathetic about it. Far left and right of the issue, you're much less apathetic, in fact you're probably fanatical about it.
    -Rob
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Rob @ Oct 21 2009, 02:22 PM) »
    I'm talking about passion for the topic. Authoritarianism is just a modifier describing how someone acts, not how they decide when to act. You could have Authoritarian state of moderates. Probably it wouldn't get anywhere, though. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make politics fit into neat little boxes on a neat little graph. I don't know if it can be done.

    There aren't many "attributes" of a political body that are 1 to 1 tradeoff spaces, where you increase one while decreasing the other. Instead, most of our political concepts (fascism, nationalism, dictatorships, despotism, democracy, republic, militants, pacifists, etc) just describe particular behavior and aren't mutually exclusive of each other.

    Some things you can draw conclusions on. Like say your general level of apathy. Others might not agree with this, but I think it would be pretty hard to stay moderate about a topic if you're generally apathetic about it. Far left and right of the issue, you're much less apathetic, in fact you're probably fanatical about it.

    Looking at things on a
    More Freedom <
    > More Restrictions
    axis makes sense to me.

    So does putting economic policy and social policy on different axises.

    I also don't think that restricting economic freedoms is generally comparable to restricting social freedoms. For example, I wouldn't consider a gov't with harsh tariffs(like Japan) to be as oppressive as a gov't that bans homosexuality, like many African nations, even if both restrictions are rather "far left" or "far right" respectively.

    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Posts: 1,044Members, Constellation
    edited October 2009
    1 dimensional descriptors only assume there is one issue up for debate.

    2 dimensional descriptors only assume there are two issues subject to debate.

    I don't know how completely idiotic someone must be to only have an opinion on one or two issues, but these methods of describing one's opinions have got to go the way of T-Rex and flame-accelerant pajamas.


    They only make any sense when a single belief determines the whole of someone's political philosophy. And these should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (juice @ Oct 21 2009, 04:44 PM) »
    1 dimensional descriptors only assume there is one issue up for debate.

    2 dimensional descriptors only assume there are two issues subject to debate.

    I don't know how completely idiotic someone must be to only have an opinion on one or two issues, but these methods of describing one's opinions have got to go the way of T-Rex and flame-accelerant pajamas.

    Suggest a better way then. I believe that is part of the topic here.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • juicejuice Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Posts: 1,044Members, Constellation
    The better way is not to categorize and make 2 boxes or 4 boxes and to put people into those boxes. There are no boxes.
  • PhiXXPhiXX Join Date: 2008-10-22 Member: 65274Posts: 236Members
    QUOTE (juice @ Oct 21 2009, 10:48 PM) »
    The better way is not to categorize and make 2 boxes or 4 boxes and to put people into those boxes. There are no boxes.

    WIN!
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (PhiXX @ Oct 22 2009, 11:51 AM) »
    WIN!

    I don't consider throwing up your hands and saying "political positions are uncategorizable" a "win", but you certainly can't dislodge a fundamental belief such as that without serious changes in philosophy.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Posts: 9,006Members
    There is some truth to "boxing" people, although maybe a two-axis diagram is too simplified. Nevertheless, people do tend to think along certain common ideologies and share certain viewpoints, and while you will never find two people who agree on everything politically there are huge numbers of people who only disagree about details that are ultimately of minor importance.
    Military cemeteries around the world are packed with brainwashed, dead soldiers who were convinced God was on their side.
    - George Carlin
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Posts: 2,604Members, NS1 Playtester
    QUOTE (juice @ Oct 21 2009, 04:48 PM) »
    The better way is not to categorize and make 2 boxes or 4 boxes and to put people into those boxes. There are no boxes.



    Unfortunately humans don't work that way. We automatically make simplifying assumptions and condense information by organizing it somehow. There's an infinite spectrum of different visible colors that we condense using roygbv, for example. It's more than our inability to distinguish colors at a certain level; it has to do with what's important to use in our daily lives. There's no reason to have a color between red and orange if you can operate without one. This can be extended to a case where you remember 16 colors, or 32 colors, etc. I don't know anyone who can name every color in a 32,000 color palette, though, even if they could distinguish between them.

    For most people, a political spectrum of democrat and republican, with maybe some libertarian and independent spice, is just fine. They have an answer for all their issues using just those two classes. Obviously, they're not as interested in politics as someone like you. Don't confuse the lack of interest or the unwillingness to change with some kind of grotesque inferiority.
    -Rob
  • radforChristradforChrist USA Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6871Posts: 524Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Oct 21 2009, 01:44 PM) »


    Geez, according to that, i AM Gandhi, I'm dead on with him. Interesting test.
  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Posts: 4,021Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (radforChrist @ Oct 22 2009, 03:21 PM) »
    Geez, according to that, i AM Gandhi, I'm dead on with him. Interesting test.

    Lol, well politically anyway. That's not really same as *being* Gandhi. ;-)
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • SentrySteveSentrySteve .txt Join Date: 2002-03-09 Member: 290Posts: 2,817Members, Constellation
    Maybe I don't understand the image, but it seems highly inaccurate on many topics. It's almost like someone who only knew of the history from the past 15 years made it. The first thing I noticed is that they've placed libertarian's as part of the "left" side of government which is just flat out wrong. One of the key positions of the libertarian party is to have the government stay out of our economic and social lives which is a direct contradiction to the puppet strings to the left so while they're not on the "Right" side they sure can't be grouped with the "Left." Second, and this is true for America at least, it has the "Right" side of government voting for "aggression." Putting the past ten years behind us (or include them, doesn't really change the point too much), history clearly shows that it was the "Left" side of government that would declare wars, often with the "Right" side of government running on the anti-war ticket to take the victory.
    sentrysteve.txt
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Posts: 8,187Forum Moderators, Constellation mod
    LIBERTARIAN was a typo, it was changed to PROGRESSIVE, I just forgot to change the link. But now that I've told you, I don't have to?
  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Posts: 45Members
    QUOTE (Rob @ Oct 21 2009, 12:22 PM) »
    I'm talking about passion for the topic. Authoritarianism is just a modifier describing how someone acts, not how they decide when to act. You could have Authoritarian state of moderates. Probably it wouldn't get anywhere, though. I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make politics fit into neat little boxes on a neat little graph. I don't know if it can be done.

    There aren't many "attributes" of a political body that are 1 to 1 tradeoff spaces, where you increase one while decreasing the other. Instead, most of our political concepts (fascism, nationalism, dictatorships, despotism, democracy, republic, militants, pacifists, etc) just describe particular behavior and aren't mutually exclusive of each other.

    Some things you can draw conclusions on. Like say your general level of apathy. Others might not agree with this, but I think it would be pretty hard to stay moderate about a topic if you're generally apathetic about it. Far left and right of the issue, you're much less apathetic, in fact you're probably fanatical about it.


    I agree.. it's a ridiculous test, and the wording of some of the questions was so leading that it gave me pause.

    http://www.politicalcompass.org/faq the answers of 10 - 15 shows that the authors of this test are clowns.

    Here is a test that is almost exactly like it (perhaps even the same people), but it has an ideological chart view at the end that makes it seem much better. Though i've noted that some of the questions were exactly the same.

    this http://www.okcupid.com/politics

    http://www.okcupid.com/politics?describe=L...&score=3438 was my result for this test

  • brcaswellbrcaswell Join Date: 2009-10-30 Member: 69181Posts: 45Members
    QUOTE (Align @ Nov 1 2009, 03:52 PM) »
    LIBERTARIAN was a typo, it was changed to PROGRESSIVE, I just forgot to change the link. But now that I've told you, I don't have to?


    yeah, when I read libertarian on the chart, my first thought was.. that's ridiculous..

    still, progressive itself doesn't represent left soley. There are progressive conservatives, they are Agents, brokers, doctors, inspectors, plumbers, and other such professionals. These are the sort of people who are or who support professional services as the standard or norm, thus support legislation that requires society to use these services. Libertarians are against such legislation, as it removes a person's liberty to perform such services themselves, or choose none certified person to perform them. It's the difference between taking a risk and removing a liberty that offers a risk. It's also important to note that the risk could be a risk to society as much as the individual, or individuals, involved.
  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Posts: 9,006Members
    QUOTE (brcaswell @ Nov 6 2009, 07:26 AM) »
    http://www.politicalcompass.org/faq the answers of 10 - 15 shows that the authors of this test are clowns.

    Can you elaborate on that? The answers seem reasonable to me.
    Military cemeteries around the world are packed with brainwashed, dead soldiers who were convinced God was on their side.
    - George Carlin
  • KassingerKassinger Shades of grey Join Date: 2002-02-20 Member: 229Posts: 923Members, Constellation
    You can divide politics into boxes, as long as you understand that they're models for understanding, not perfect mirrors of reality.
    "Every absurdity has a champion who will defend it."
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