Safe zones, is that what we need perhaps? (addition to game or new game mode?)

Kouji_San

Been thinking about this chaotic nature of NS2 and perhaps this idea is too radical and big... But maybe the game needs dynamic safe areas on maps, like those MOBA games to remove some of the constant chaos and pressure from super shooters/biters all over the map? The turret areas in those games are kinda safe spots, up until the snowball effect sets in...

Hear me out here! You there, put the pitchforks away man! And I do believe we can make do without torches



Soooo... Super popular games which kinda feel and look like NS2, are those MOBAs. And I've also seen other games with those safe zones, which give the players that room to regroup/breath and so on... NS2 has none of that and the community up in here will have none of it anyways Anyways, even the main base is susceptible to constant harassment from both teams. All of which add this chaotic nature to the entire game...

Let's see... translating this to NS2... Powered areas vs infested areas? Heck I dunno, this sounds good on paper, however my guess is it would kinda add to the "I'm fighting the map instead of players". Although I'm not sure if this is a 100% bad thing, it's certainly considered heresy here It would however change a big pillar of NS2, map control would be changed into zones instead of freedom of whatever the heck you want (which adds to chaos, but also gives depth). It would focus the combat into smaller areas though, instead of all over the place... But how would this work in melee vs ranged




The way the game works now is, you take areas by building your weak ass turrets or hydras or by employing guerilla rapid response teams (Phasegate vs Tunnels). This is 100% reliant on teamplay based systems and player situational awareness. A system that is very easy to snowball or skew in favor of the vastly superior team, if one team has a much better players on their team (or two).

Now...

Let's see...

Those safe areas could be at respoints or maybe a new kind of structure tied to powernodes (infester/shield) or maybe even a king of the hill kinda area claiming system. Which can be cut off from the main Hive/CC (not the resflow, but the safety effect)... So in this case, you could have the system work two ways...


*PVP combat in the in between areas, players need to protect the areas which have these effects?
*PVP+PVE in the safe zones where if you have enough firepower or base crushing aliens (bile/Onos)


+safe zones to give new players some breathing room
+MOBA type of pulling/overextending shizzle
+regrouping areas
+A slowed down map progression towards the main base

-harder to harass resnodes early game
-More bases to raid
-more PVE (but hey MOBAs are super addictive and popular, NS2 kinda has that vibe apart from the safe zones)
-A slowed down map progression towards the main base
-fluff, maybe fluff is good maybe it isn't... I'm not sure... good fluff would be by definition good, the thing is we don't know if fluff is good or bad in nature until we try



Also what are these effects, maybe the biggest question of all...


Meh, this would definitely require a new game mode... NS2 is simply not properly set up to deal with non-PVP systems... That and it would be very hard to do, because the maps themselves are way more complex than those MOBAS and the "in between areas" are just hallways mostly...



Oh well, I was just thinking out loud here ranting some stuff... If anyone else can think up something to extend this to get some kind of safe areas in the game...

Saffron_baker

The idea you just described sounds very much like a ner version of siege.
Seems like a nice idea though!

Nordic

Maybe as a slower more moba like gamemode

SantaClaws

A lot of talk about slower game modes recently. RPG modes, 90% speed mode, now this.

Maybe you guys should get together and make a new game mode with some of these things in mind.

As for messing with the vanilla ns2 game: please no

Kouji_San

Well, this wouldn't necessarily slow down the gameflow as that is dependent on tech tree progression+resflow, with a small part of map progression. Most of the time in vanilla NS2 the map is already evenly divided until one team gets the upperhand and starts pushing So with that in mind, the natural resource nodes are still instantly accessible. And the extended resnodes are essentially in nomansland or contested territory, still very similar to how it is now.


It just adds safe areas in a sort of push map kinda style, friendly territory would be a bit more safe (or a lot I dunno ). Localizing the combat instead of all over the place. Making territory control more important, kinda in a Company of Heroes style (Blitzkrieg mod)

Localizing combat in general makes games more fun for new players. I mean just look at how newbies play, they tend to go to where the action is, but if that action keeps flip flopping around the map they kinda keep missing out on the action, feeling useless. Now this doesn't remove skill from the equation, just some breathing room to fight from area to area. Contested areas are still as hostile as ever, but they can step into these zones from somewhat safer areas to engage the big bad monster players instead of getting jumped on from anywhere on the map.

Also just taking notes from

• NS2 Last Stand, overwhelm the marine base (localized combat), within a marine rescue time frame
• MOBAs, turret areas
• L4D melee vs range focussed around the survivors, who from time to time have safe areas to defend
• TF2 push maps (cart push), buff/healing stuff from that... Bomb... CP push maps with them sentry nests and sentry busting stuff (Forgotten Hope also had those push maps to localize combat and dictate map progression)
• Counterstrike (hostage/bomb booms)

- Protecting certain areas or at least more emphasis on it to gain benefits for your team, instead of purely focussing on PvP (mostly)

SantaClaws wrote: »

As for messing with the vanilla ns2 game: please no

Indeed, it would be counterproductive in any case to change vanilla NS2 so drastically!

But in terms of flaws, the chaos that godlike players add to the already chaotic nature of the game. Add to this hidden game mechanics, all of which are really adding to the huge skill gap. And we can keep droning on about how this is a skill based game with team play, right now the game is designed with pure PvP in mind, resulting in vastly superior players simply dictating a round. It's a big issue, is all I'm saying The skill can still be there, but newbies need some kind of protection and if they step into the realm of the contested territories, that is where the game should shine.

New players feel useless in those rounds and get frustrated when constantly being killed by "god guy". The last thing you want to do is frustrate your players. One more issue is that newbies tend to flash their expensive lifeforms, because they can't practice or understand wtf just happened to their huge epic space cow

Kouji_San

Also I would love to see these kind of mods using the way NS2 units work, not to become a separate mod. Modifying the way the game plays though map objectives, like most other games do. A tried and proven concept. I mean this isn't exactly a total conversion mod, this would just be a map based gameplay mod.

ns2_summit (vanilla NS2 map)
push_summit (push map or control points? The idea in this thread)
koth_summit (king of the hill, boss of crossroads +timer?)
arc_summit (Escorting an arc train, which only moves if marines are near, TF2 cart)
rave_nancy (nancy rave room party time... nah just messing around naw )

All of which using NS2 vanilla gameplay, modifying gameflow through map design

ls_summit (Last Stand, small portion of a map)
co_summit (NS2:Combat, which is using a separate game engine you have to start up and be 100% separated from NS2...... )

Combat and Last Stand are the odd one out here, because they also have lot's of interface modifications and lacking the commanders... So turning this into a map based mod could potentially be much easier than creating a complete new mod and much more accessible.




Keyword, game mode not game mod. This would also be easier to track more popular ideas, while not messing with people's preferred game modes...

Nordic

I don't dislike the idea. I think it has merit. TGNS has a custom map with a bit of code to make a king of the hill game mode. They are calling it arclight right now.