DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
the point of the plog is to make it when issues arise.
Just join the server you want and start a plog with p_logall.
I see no reason to do it on a empty map if the problem does not appear in that situation.
Also having a screen on 144Hz would answer my previous query as to why you want such high framerates I guess.
I was testing with MSI Afterburner OSD on Wooza like an hour ago, server had 39 players using DX11 (going to test DX9 soon). Not sure how the game can be so taxing (by your words) and low framerate, since the system was hardly sweating. GPU was at 50% most of the time and CPU cores, first one was at max 60%, the other 3 were floating at around 30% and dropping to 10%. That's my main point. I'd understand low performance if my GPU was at 100% the entire time (CS:GO does that, but then again it's also silky smooth regardless of player count) and same with at least 1 or 2 CPU cores also fully loaded. But that just wasn't the case. I have tons of unused resources and i'm sitting here in front of a screen being annoyed by shitty framerate. Because you can't expect a fully loaded CPU to do more work, but i do expect that ability from a CPU that's hardly doing anything. And mine just isn't doing much at those loads...
Also, temperatures were even lower as i've said before. GPU was at 60°C and same for CPU. GPU and MEM clocks were at 1100MHz and 6000MHz the entire time, so nothing was throttling. 3GB graphic card and the game never exceeded 2GB of VRAM usage...
Seems to me that engine doesn't know how to utilize given resources...
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
grumble grumble.. once more before I give up asking.
To see if there is something wrong within the game or something weird happening in the ns2 installed on your computer we/uwe needs a plog. Especially if the game behaves poorly when hardware is doing fine a plog is needed.
How else is anyone going to point down a specific cause?
As for your underused hardware....
* if you run all graphics settings on high/max and dont cap the GPU..gratz.. you have a strong monster of a GPU/GPU combo. This is however not to odd.
* ns2 is, mainly, cpu capped. It has 3 threads (last I checked) and of those 3, so far I know one has the biggest workload. So yes it will at max use 3 cores.. normally your cpu would sleep the other cores to Turbo the remaining ones, but I suspect due to your overclock that this is 'not needed'.
So you saying that its keeping only a few cores busy is understandable. I dont know why it does not hit max 100% on one core, perhaps you indeed do not need it.
Which brings us, once again, back to the plog which we requested.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Do not bother getting a plog from wooza's server or any other that is hacking the executable in order to exceed the hard coded player count maximum of 24.
Such scenarios will create false positives.
We do not support anything over 24 players - so any issue you experience with a hacked server is not something we will address.
That being said, if you can reproduce your issue on a typical server please plog it as instructed. If you cannot, then this thread doesn't have much reason to stay open..
Well, we've also talked about the sluggish mouse in the past which is also indirectly related to this. The feel of the game, which feels like very low framerate, but the OSD counter says otherwise... Have never ever experienced such weird behavior in any other game. Either they actually run poorly or they run fine. NS2 runs poorly while running fine. The only way to put it.
Finding non hacked servers is like mission impossible. Maybe they don't all hack the player count but they are all stuffed with various mods and changes.
dePARAJoin Date: 2011-04-29Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
And again:
You lose half of your possible fps by joining the wooza server.
The game/engine/netcode isnt made for this ammount of players.
Doesnt matter if you use dx9 or dx10.
Doesnt matter if you run the game from an ssd
Doesnt matter if you reinstall everything
Diesnt matter if you overclock you GPU and CPU
So, posting something like "i have fps problems" and joining wooza is a bit pointless.
You heard many possible solutions but denies every of them.
This look like a troll thread to me.
Ah and btw.
There is a huge difference between an modded and an hacked server.
Call it a troll thread all you want, but even on Woozas, the framerate was above 60fps easily and it felt like 20. The same was also happening on normal servers. Framerate on OSD crazy high, but the whole gameplay felt like 20 again. If you think i'm trolling, fine, but i know what i see. There is not a single game i've ever had such crazy problem with. Like i said, it was either problematic altogether or it was working perfectly. No such case with NS2.
I'll get you the plog when i'll play a normal match again...
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
"but even on Woozas, the framerate was above 60fps easily and it felt like 20. "
That's what we're trying to tell you : Such servers cannot be used as a measurement.
A modded server is not necessarily a server running a hacked executable.. I don't mean you can't get a plog from a modded server - You just can't get a plog from a server running more than 24 players.
Also, the log.txt file that was created in the same folder had this in it:
Error: Attempting to sync an invalid collision rep! (this one was pretty much constant through the log)
Error: 128 memory leaks in 'Sound' (4688 bytes)
Error: 128 memory leaks in 'Client' (4688 bytes)
Error: PhysX: Foundation destruction failed due to pending module references. Close/release all depending modules first.
Error: 16 memory leaks in 'PhysX' (25424 bytes)
Error: 16 memory leaks in 'Physics' (25424 bytes)
Error: 144 memory leaks in 'Engine' (30112 bytes)
Don't know the context of these errors, but just by reading them, it seems to me that NS2 is a bucket that has just been shot by a M61 Vulcan canon and is now trying to hold water inside itself... i'd say on a normal day, there shouldn't be any mention of memory leak errors anywhere...
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
The memory leaks are normal, they will appear at the end of the log when you quit. They are due to the shutdown process and nothing else. They are not in-game errors, they are just to do with the shutdown process.
As regards FPS feeling lower than it is. This has been addressed in-depth in the 267 threads by Matso. He has stated everything you are complaining about, explains why it is happening, and points out the 267 features some first run fixes for the issue.
Please read those threads to understand:
1 - Why your framerate feels like half the framerate displayed
2 - What is being done to introduce fixes for these issues in 267.
Then wait for 267 and see how much of an improvement you get. It is hoped the update will be out tomorrow, so you don't have long to wait.
You are not the only person who has this issue, and we will all see what improvements the fixes provide.
Yeah, will see tommorow (or on wednesday here in EU if the release team is from west coast). I sure hope it will fix this, because it's so hard to actually hit anything when it's all sluggish on otherwise super responsive screen...
Ok, after hours and hours of testing, i think i've spotted something. It appears that my CPU is not throttling because of my faults, but because apparently some Microsoft update silently fucked it up somehow. That's why the problem repeated even on perfectly clean (and fully updated) system, but wasn't happening on the same system with same OS but apparently without that update. Same drivers and all as well.
The thing is, something is forcing my CPU to fall into C states (C6 being the deepest "sleep" state) when it's not suppose to, and that effectively makes it sort of throttle down, because it's trying to clock itself down to save power when it's suppose to run full throttle. Then i've fiddled with power saving technologies in BIOS, disabling them all apart from SpeedSteep which now gives me a boost to 4,2GHz on certain cores. System is now eating 40W more power on idle and somewhat more during gaming, but i don't care about that because i have my performance back.
The game is now again playable even with everything maxed out, though i've now started to like a toned down version because it gives me better visibility without all the lights, bloom, shadows and fog limiting my view.
This is one of those really bizarre problems i've spotted in the last few months.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I wonder which update you mean?
You see I love C states. Even the first gen i7 are perfectly fine going in a C state and waking up as need be. It also allows it to sleep some cores and turbo/oc the others if you run a game which only asks for a core or 2.
The swap from idle to C state is quite fast depending on how deep its going. And its very rare that a core goes into its deepest sleep if its used/not used/used.
Nothing should force your cpu in c states.. it should be fully automatic. Im sure you know that. :P
Do you use turbo? That would effectively make the CPU ask to sleep cores if it runs games with less and we all know ns2 doesnt use all cores. Although I think it does better on core use lately.. (I haven't checked recently)
My point is that I run with high C states and do not have the issue you describe. Although in fairness, C states are also dependend on how suck or not suck your bios/motherboard is.
Well, i was using the same overclock profile for like 5 years or so and NS2 was running perfectly smooth even on highest settings and then all of the sudden, it started running like shit. Blamed the game itself because nothing else changed. Didn't take OS itself into account, because it was doing the same even on clean system installation. I mean, you usually blame drivers, 3rd party low level apps and not expect an OS patch to fuck it up so badly. I still don't know which one, but there had to be one that affects power saving stuff.
That's why i also didn't get how is 267 so much better for everyone and ran like total shite for me despite knowing i could play the game on max before from start to end and then all of the sudden it played worse than it ever did before even with supposedly a superior update.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Update KB2976897, KB2982791 is a kernel fix which related to use of memory. It also is linked to direct-x by being a wrapper for it. Also its used for GDI.
I am unsure if this is causes your chance in performance initially, but if your system was using memory 'wrong' by this fix it should no longer be allowed to do so.
The fix is a few days old in terms of release.
KB2978668 is a ASLR vulnerability fix, Im not sure if ns2 runs with aslr, have not checked recently.
At this point I stopped looking.
Of course it is plain gambling IF this is the reason why your performance changes.. It has nothing to do with C states so far I can see. No recent update has anything to do with C states. If memory serves me correct you have a 930 cpu, which does not yet posses hardware aes support. I am unsure if anything related to AES has changed in recent ns2 or windows updates. That could slow it down a bit.. but again, nothing with c states.
It would help if I could reproduce, but alas I can not. C states work fine for me.
Processor 1 in group 0 exposes the following power management capabilities:
Idle state type: ACPI Idle (C) States (1 state(s))
Performance state type: ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz): 2668
Maximum performance percentage: 100
Minimum performance percentage: 59
Minimum throttle percentage: 59
And there were for all the cores. It doesn't say exactly it's throttling it, because the max value is still 100%, but it raised my eyebrow for sure. And it turned out i was right. Disabling or lowering C states to only C1 did raise the idle power consumption, but NS2 now runs like it used to, full speed.
So yeah, it had to be one of the updates fiddling with the kernel. Not sure which one exactly, but this has been going on for a while, basically from the time i started ranting about it here (though it was happening slightly before so that isn't helping me much).
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
edited August 2014
Which log? To much to look through all to compare.
Luckily for you I somewhat know what you mean. The next gets vague!
Windows has a energy options in its tools menu. In the energy menu you can set different energy modes. Like 'balanced', 'energy saving' etc.
You can also edit these modes. Under its advanced edit is a small section for your processor.
In here you can set a minimum and a maximum for things like 'used cores'.
You may change some values here with the ability to keep C states on.
If you do not have the processor settings in this menu, you need to enable some registry options.
Now the downside to this is.... various sites report it does or does not work if you set it by the energy menu instead of registry. Naturally changing the registry manually can lead to severe problems if you do it wrong. I think I tested a long time ago, and it worked back then but.. its been a long time. I just leave it to park when it wants to.
>Edit,
I did a quick test with prime.
If I change the maximum values from 100% to 50% it will indeed change these values, and change them live!. So setting the max to 50% gave me 50% of my max frequency. 50% of cores did the same, in instantly parked half the cores.
I can only assume minimum works just as fine.
Set to the minimum you want and be done with it.
I would however suggest not setting your minimum to 100%, as you may as well keep C states off then<
Comments
Just join the server you want and start a plog with p_logall.
I see no reason to do it on a empty map if the problem does not appear in that situation.
Also having a screen on 144Hz would answer my previous query as to why you want such high framerates I guess.
Also, temperatures were even lower as i've said before. GPU was at 60°C and same for CPU. GPU and MEM clocks were at 1100MHz and 6000MHz the entire time, so nothing was throttling. 3GB graphic card and the game never exceeded 2GB of VRAM usage...
Seems to me that engine doesn't know how to utilize given resources...
To see if there is something wrong within the game or something weird happening in the ns2 installed on your computer we/uwe needs a plog. Especially if the game behaves poorly when hardware is doing fine a plog is needed.
How else is anyone going to point down a specific cause?
As for your underused hardware....
* if you run all graphics settings on high/max and dont cap the GPU..gratz.. you have a strong monster of a GPU/GPU combo. This is however not to odd.
* ns2 is, mainly, cpu capped. It has 3 threads (last I checked) and of those 3, so far I know one has the biggest workload. So yes it will at max use 3 cores.. normally your cpu would sleep the other cores to Turbo the remaining ones, but I suspect due to your overclock that this is 'not needed'.
So you saying that its keeping only a few cores busy is understandable. I dont know why it does not hit max 100% on one core, perhaps you indeed do not need it.
Which brings us, once again, back to the plog which we requested.
Such scenarios will create false positives.
We do not support anything over 24 players - so any issue you experience with a hacked server is not something we will address.
That being said, if you can reproduce your issue on a typical server please plog it as instructed. If you cannot, then this thread doesn't have much reason to stay open..
Finding non hacked servers is like mission impossible. Maybe they don't all hack the player count but they are all stuffed with various mods and changes.
You lose half of your possible fps by joining the wooza server.
The game/engine/netcode isnt made for this ammount of players.
Doesnt matter if you use dx9 or dx10.
Doesnt matter if you run the game from an ssd
Doesnt matter if you reinstall everything
Diesnt matter if you overclock you GPU and CPU
So, posting something like "i have fps problems" and joining wooza is a bit pointless.
You heard many possible solutions but denies every of them.
This look like a troll thread to me.
Ah and btw.
There is a huge difference between an modded and an hacked server.
I'll get you the plog when i'll play a normal match again...
That's what we're trying to tell you : Such servers cannot be used as a measurement.
A modded server is not necessarily a server running a hacked executable.. I don't mean you can't get a plog from a modded server - You just can't get a plog from a server running more than 24 players.
plog download
Also, the log.txt file that was created in the same folder had this in it:
Error: Attempting to sync an invalid collision rep! (this one was pretty much constant through the log)
Error: 128 memory leaks in 'Sound' (4688 bytes)
Error: 128 memory leaks in 'Client' (4688 bytes)
Error: PhysX: Foundation destruction failed due to pending module references. Close/release all depending modules first.
Error: 16 memory leaks in 'PhysX' (25424 bytes)
Error: 16 memory leaks in 'Physics' (25424 bytes)
Error: 144 memory leaks in 'Engine' (30112 bytes)
Don't know the context of these errors, but just by reading them, it seems to me that NS2 is a bucket that has just been shot by a M61 Vulcan canon and is now trying to hold water inside itself... i'd say on a normal day, there shouldn't be any mention of memory leak errors anywhere...
As regards FPS feeling lower than it is. This has been addressed in-depth in the 267 threads by Matso. He has stated everything you are complaining about, explains why it is happening, and points out the 267 features some first run fixes for the issue.
Please read those threads to understand:
1 - Why your framerate feels like half the framerate displayed
2 - What is being done to introduce fixes for these issues in 267.
Then wait for 267 and see how much of an improvement you get. It is hoped the update will be out tomorrow, so you don't have long to wait.
You are not the only person who has this issue, and we will all see what improvements the fixes provide.
The thing is, something is forcing my CPU to fall into C states (C6 being the deepest "sleep" state) when it's not suppose to, and that effectively makes it sort of throttle down, because it's trying to clock itself down to save power when it's suppose to run full throttle. Then i've fiddled with power saving technologies in BIOS, disabling them all apart from SpeedSteep which now gives me a boost to 4,2GHz on certain cores. System is now eating 40W more power on idle and somewhat more during gaming, but i don't care about that because i have my performance back.
The game is now again playable even with everything maxed out, though i've now started to like a toned down version because it gives me better visibility without all the lights, bloom, shadows and fog limiting my view.
This is one of those really bizarre problems i've spotted in the last few months.
You see I love C states. Even the first gen i7 are perfectly fine going in a C state and waking up as need be. It also allows it to sleep some cores and turbo/oc the others if you run a game which only asks for a core or 2.
The swap from idle to C state is quite fast depending on how deep its going. And its very rare that a core goes into its deepest sleep if its used/not used/used.
Nothing should force your cpu in c states.. it should be fully automatic. Im sure you know that. :P
Do you use turbo? That would effectively make the CPU ask to sleep cores if it runs games with less and we all know ns2 doesnt use all cores. Although I think it does better on core use lately.. (I haven't checked recently)
My point is that I run with high C states and do not have the issue you describe. Although in fairness, C states are also dependend on how suck or not suck your bios/motherboard is.
That's why i also didn't get how is 267 so much better for everyone and ran like total shite for me despite knowing i could play the game on max before from start to end and then all of the sudden it played worse than it ever did before even with supposedly a superior update.
I am unsure if this is causes your chance in performance initially, but if your system was using memory 'wrong' by this fix it should no longer be allowed to do so.
The fix is a few days old in terms of release.
KB2978668 is a ASLR vulnerability fix, Im not sure if ns2 runs with aslr, have not checked recently.
At this point I stopped looking.
Of course it is plain gambling IF this is the reason why your performance changes.. It has nothing to do with C states so far I can see. No recent update has anything to do with C states. If memory serves me correct you have a 930 cpu, which does not yet posses hardware aes support. I am unsure if anything related to AES has changed in recent ns2 or windows updates. That could slow it down a bit.. but again, nothing with c states.
It would help if I could reproduce, but alas I can not. C states work fine for me.
You can however not remove them. (I sure would advice strongly against)
But still.. a C state change by a windows update... I still find it unlikely
Processor 1 in group 0 exposes the following power management capabilities:
Idle state type: ACPI Idle (C) States (1 state(s))
Performance state type: ACPI Performance (P) / Throttle (T) States
Nominal Frequency (MHz): 2668
Maximum performance percentage: 100
Minimum performance percentage: 59
Minimum throttle percentage: 59
And there were for all the cores. It doesn't say exactly it's throttling it, because the max value is still 100%, but it raised my eyebrow for sure. And it turned out i was right. Disabling or lowering C states to only C1 did raise the idle power consumption, but NS2 now runs like it used to, full speed.
So yeah, it had to be one of the updates fiddling with the kernel. Not sure which one exactly, but this has been going on for a while, basically from the time i started ranting about it here (though it was happening slightly before so that isn't helping me much).
Luckily for you I somewhat know what you mean. The next gets vague!
Windows has a energy options in its tools menu. In the energy menu you can set different energy modes. Like 'balanced', 'energy saving' etc.
You can also edit these modes. Under its advanced edit is a small section for your processor.
In here you can set a minimum and a maximum for things like 'used cores'.
You may change some values here with the ability to keep C states on.
If you do not have the processor settings in this menu, you need to enable some registry options.
Now the downside to this is.... various sites report it does or does not work if you set it by the energy menu instead of registry. Naturally changing the registry manually can lead to severe problems if you do it wrong. I think I tested a long time ago, and it worked back then but.. its been a long time. I just leave it to park when it wants to.
>Edit,
I did a quick test with prime.
If I change the maximum values from 100% to 50% it will indeed change these values, and change them live!. So setting the max to 50% gave me 50% of my max frequency. 50% of cores did the same, in instantly parked half the cores.
I can only assume minimum works just as fine.
Set to the minimum you want and be done with it.
I would however suggest not setting your minimum to 100%, as you may as well keep C states off then<
>edit2
here is a link how. At your own risk etc etc.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/asus/494232-how-adjust-core-parking-inside-windows-7-a.html
I have more attributes.old then the link describes. If I remember ok it enables you to chance the other values also then like frequency)