6v6 Team Darkside vs Clan 420

LuitjensLuitjens Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73034Posts: 198Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
edited March 2012 in Competitive Play
6 part video playlist
Here is a 6 parter video playlist to Team Darkside vs Clan 420,

Games were very interesting on summit!

6v6 Playlist


-highlight for results
Ended in a 3-3 tie, with alien wins for all teams, marines didn't win once
Post edited by Unknown User on
yt - InternetsLIVE

Comments

  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    edited March 2012
    Thanks mate; I was just going to look for those. =P

    Can't wait to see how everything came out.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • DuskDusk Join Date: 2011-06-24 Member: 106114Posts: 151Members, Constellation
  • LuitjensLuitjens Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73034Posts: 198Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited March 2012
    That is what I am thinking dusk >>><<<< Crags on hives = pretty much unstoppable that defense is overwhelming (there was 5-7 in a few games surrounding hive), only way to stop that is have a rine rush and focus firing crags, but once you get too many crags it just seems improssible, maybe limits on crags per hive radius are needed
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    yt - InternetsLIVE
  • shivshiv Join Date: 2010-04-11 Member: 71341Posts: 113Members, Constellation
    In fact a rine rush is exactly what we tried the first round. After bottling them up and taking the RTs around the map we tried to push in with shotguns but with the near perma-umbra on the skulks which is a minimum 2 shots with the sg, we spent nearly the entire time fighting lifeforms and less time killing the structures (also umbrad), and what little damage we did to do the structures, was healed up nearly instantly by the remaining crags and (gorge?). In retrospect we might (key word) have been able to kill their remaining RT in flight control to stop the clock on the Onos and then keep them bottled up on both sides with shotguns, GLs and mines while we tech up for ARCs.

    In the remaining rounds even teching straight to ARCs, foregoing everything else but mines, we were still not able to put enough damage on the hive before they were able to spawn Onos at the 7 or 8 min mark.
  • LuitjensLuitjens Join Date: 2010-07-26 Member: 73034Posts: 198Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (shiv @ Mar 26 2012, 12:58 PM) »
    In fact a rine rush is exactly what we tried the first round. After bottling them up and taking the RTs around the map we tried to push in with shotguns but with the near perma-umbra on the skulks which is a minimum 2 shots with the sg, we spent nearly the entire time fighting lifeforms and less time killing the structures (also umbrad), and what little damage we did to do the structures, was healed up nearly instantly by the remaining crags and (gorge?). In retrospect we might (key word) have been able to kill their remaining RT in flight control to stop the clock on the Onos and then keep them bottled up on both sides with shotguns, GLs and mines while we tech up for ARCs.

    In the remaining rounds even teching straight to ARCs, foregoing everything else but mines, we were still not able to put enough damage on the hive before they were able to spawn Onos at the 7 or 8 min mark.


    Yea, I noticed that when rines were pushing into flight control lifeforms kept hatching umbrad and there was a good 5 crags surrounding that hive, no way you were going to take that out without massive arcs/grenade launchers and it amazes me that aliens can get to the point of defending something that easily causing rines to completely change their gameplay which slows down their game. (switching from doing shotgun rushing to arcs/gls first and then waiting to have enough arcs as well).. Far easier for alien commander to spawn a few drifters, send them to build crags and its done in a matter of seconds
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    yt - InternetsLIVE
  • DuskDusk Join Date: 2011-06-24 Member: 106114Posts: 151Members, Constellation
    I have seen this time and time again. Marines completely dominate and contain the aliens to 1 hive then the higher lifeforms come and push back. I think this will be fixed if they move onos to second hive tech and smash to third hive. Umbra is way to powerful and with the second hive having almost no importance the alien commander can turtle the hell out of alien start knowing it will win you the game.
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,456Members, NS2 Map Tester
    QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 26 2012, 04:51 PM) »
    I have seen this time and time again. Marines completely dominate and contain the aliens to 1 hive then the higher lifeforms come and push back. I think this will be fixed if they move onos to second hive tech and smash to third hive. Umbra is way to powerful and with the second hive having almost no importance the alien commander can turtle the hell out of alien start knowing it will win you the game.


    Even second hive onos are far too readily available for their power. If Onos were limited to 2 hives, you'd still see 7-8 minutes onos anyway. Onos are currently an end game unit, 7-8 minutes is more early - mid timing. That's when fades w/ blink should be coming out, not infantry destroying tanks.
    image
  • DuskDusk Join Date: 2011-06-24 Member: 106114Posts: 151Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (GORGEous @ Mar 26 2012, 01:46 PM) »
    Even second hive onos are far too readily available for their power. If Onos were limited to 2 hives, you'd still see 7-8 minutes onos anyway. Onos are currently an end game unit, 7-8 minutes is more early - mid timing. That's when fades w/ blink should be coming out, not infantry destroying tanks.


    Well maybe the cost should also be increased to 100 res and each upgrade should be increased to 15 res for the onos.
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678Members, Constellation
    onos @ 7min, gg
    LV426-Colonist
  • hamptonhampton Join Date: 2011-08-31 Member: 119370Posts: 186Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 26 2012, 02:15 PM) »
    Well maybe the cost should also be increased to 100 res and each upgrade should be increased to 15 res for the onos.


    The cost isn't the problem.
    aka GORGEOUS GORGE
  • DuskDusk Join Date: 2011-06-24 Member: 106114Posts: 151Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (hampton @ Mar 26 2012, 02:43 PM) »
    The cost isn't the problem.


    I meant cost and upgrade cost increase along with making it second hive tech with smash as hive 3 ability and remove knockdown from gore with armor reduction.
  • hamptonhampton Join Date: 2011-08-31 Member: 119370Posts: 186Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Dusk @ Mar 26 2012, 03:02 PM) »
    I meant cost and upgrade cost increase along with making it second hive tech with smash as hive 3 ability and remove knockdown from gore with armor reduction.

    What about the radius on stomp?
    aka GORGEOUS GORGE
  • eh?eh? Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 147997Posts: 517Members
    QUOTE (hampton @ Mar 26 2012, 04:07 PM) »
    What about the radius on stomp?


    Cut in half plz.

    Also fix geometry issues where you still get knocked down when you're above him on a prop.
  • IronHorseIronHorse CDT Technical Support & QA Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 6,088Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Community Dev Team admin
    edited March 2012
    is being knocked down from stomp while JPing in mid air supposed to occur? i laughed so hard when it happened to me, thinking that the onos was very tactical.

    edit: +1 to gore knockdown being removed. its well known that freezing player input is frustrating.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • ÒŗăNģёÒŗăNģё Join Date: 2012-02-09 Member: 144437Posts: 133Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
  • GORGEousGORGEous Join Date: 2012-02-19 Member: 146762Posts: 1,456Members, NS2 Map Tester
    QUOTE (ÒŗăNģё @ Mar 27 2012, 07:19 AM) »
    Its called an arc.


    Watch games 4 and 6.
    image
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    Sometimes you need ARCs, sometimes you need Marines. There's no ultimate strategy.

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited March 2012
    I enjoyed watching the matches, thanks for putting them up!

    edit: I especially enjoyed the 1 hive (+crags) strategy, lifeform unlocking has changed the game a lot and removed the blinding focus on the 2nd hive.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Arga | ns2hub.com
    "Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago."
  • shivshiv Join Date: 2010-04-11 Member: 71341Posts: 113Members, Constellation
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Mar 27 2012, 10:06 AM) »
    Sometimes you need ARCs, sometimes you need Marines. There's no ultimate strategy.


    and there's also unbalanced builds, which this is. but it's a beta so we're all accepting of that fact. however it doesn't change the fact that if the aliens play smartly, and use the appropriate structures, they can simply turtle until onos is out, which in the current build the rines aren't really able to counter so early into the game.
  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (shiv @ Mar 27 2012, 06:55 PM) »
    and there's also unbalanced builds, which this is. but it's a beta so we're all accepting of that fact. however it doesn't change the fact that if the aliens play smartly, and use the appropriate structures, they can simply turtle until onos is out, which in the current build the rines aren't really able to counter so early into the game.

    Having watched the matches, I would think if you played again and picked up what strategy they were using again you would have more success. This is a huge part of competitive gameplay, identifying the strategy used by the opponent and adapting yours to counter it. Its exciting seeing the importance of the second hive reduced, allowing for more differentiation in strategies.
    Arga | ns2hub.com
    "Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago."
  • LV426-ColonistLV426-Colonist Space Jockey Join Date: 2011-08-05 Member: 114269Posts: 678Members, Constellation
    How do you counter a 7min onos?

    Please enlighten me.
    LV426-Colonist
  • ArgathorArgathor Join Date: 2011-07-18 Member: 110942Posts: 682Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited March 2012
    QUOTE (LV426-Colonist @ Mar 27 2012, 07:33 PM) »
    How do you counter a 7min onos?

    Please enlighten me.

    Trapping/Blocking them is the key, I will let you work out how to do that!

    Would you like me to tell you how to kill skulks, lerks and fades too? How about gorges, they can be tricksy too!

    edit: I didn't mean the above to sound insulting, I was slightly baffled by the question. Everything considered, the better you shoot the faster the aliens die. With onos, they can so easily run away, so blocking/trapping is useful too (armourys/marines/whatever is at hand).
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    Arga | ns2hub.com
    "Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago."
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    edited March 2012
    Also, with the new accelerated Marine tech tree leaving more money for fancy weapon/armor upgrades on your Shotgun marines, you can always just murder their Skulks so hard that they need to chose between spending Onos Res on more Lerks and Fades or losing before the 7 minute mark ticks around.

    At the end of the day, if everything is dead, you can just walk into their hive and axe it to death before the 7 minute mark gets close. Early marine superiority is now a more viable marine strategy than ever before.
    Post edited by Unknown User on

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Posts: 1,865Members, Squad Five Blue
    QUOTE (shiv @ Mar 26 2012, 07:58 PM) »
    In fact a rine rush is exactly what we tried the first round. After bottling them up and taking the RTs around the map we tried to push in with shotguns but with the near perma-umbra on the skulks which is a minimum 2 shots with the sg, we spent nearly the entire time fighting lifeforms and less time killing the structures (also umbrad), and what little damage we did to do the structures, was healed up nearly instantly by the remaining crags and (gorge?). In retrospect we might (key word) have been able to kill their remaining RT in flight control to stop the clock on the Onos and then keep them bottled up on both sides with shotguns, GLs and mines while we tech up for ARCs.

    In the remaining rounds even teching straight to ARCs, foregoing everything else but mines, we were still not able to put enough damage on the hive before they were able to spawn Onos at the 7 or 8 min mark.

    This is why Umbra, Fury, Cloak etc. should cost PRes for the alien comm.
    The energy concept is like this everywhere it is used.
    Scan, Beacon, Umbra, Cloak, Fury etc.

    NS2 6v6 Gathers
    QUOTE (Floodinator @ Feb 28 2012, 08:41 PM) »
    it's always a good idea to kill swalk or he will kill you.
  • TechercizerTechercizer 7th Player Join Date: 2011-06-11 Member: 103832Posts: 1,850Members
    I'd like to point out that an ARC rush 1st round would have probably destroyed our hive. Likewise, a marine rush later rounds when we were planning to counter ARCs would have done serious damage, probably killing us; the hive got down to 10% in one of the rounds, but nobody was axing it, so when we took out the ARCs we could just heal it back up.

            Once the infestation reaches the Command Chair, the process begins. One Gorge enters the chair to provide the necessary height. Another climbs on its shoulders to access the controls.

            A Gorge Lab is quickly established, staffed by microscopic Gorges who work tirelessly to unlock the secrets of Frontiersman Technology, stopping only to change their lab coats when they become dirtied. Once the research progresses to a certain point, the Gorgecom gives the order. Nanites are called into service.

            The armature forms. A chosen Gorge, tested many times in the field of battle, enters the machine.

            Servos whir; miniguns spin up in diagnostics; an Exogorge is born.

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