Practical Comming 101: Professors Needed
Reswhores_Never_Prosper
Join Date: 2004-03-22 Member: 27482Members
Join Date: 2004-03-22 Member: 27482Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Replies Much Appreciated</div> Hi there. Long time player, first time poster. I have been playing NS for a good while now and I want to learn to command. You see, I have always wanted to comm in a pub, but all of my attempts have met in pure and utter failure.
My first attempt, I accidentially recycled everything because my microphone key was the same as the recycle one. Talk talk, recycle recycle. My second attempt, I was skulk rushed and I paniced. My third attempt, I was gorge rushed and felt humiliated. Since that, I haven't attempted to comm in 4 months.
But all of that is behind me now because you guys are going to take me through the basic strategies of comm'ing. What to build first, when to upgrade, to electrify or not to electrify, shotguns, marine motivation, et cetera. Please, I implore you. Take me on a crash course through Practical Comming 101. Your student is waiting.
My first attempt, I accidentially recycled everything because my microphone key was the same as the recycle one. Talk talk, recycle recycle. My second attempt, I was skulk rushed and I paniced. My third attempt, I was gorge rushed and felt humiliated. Since that, I haven't attempted to comm in 4 months.
But all of that is behind me now because you guys are going to take me through the basic strategies of comm'ing. What to build first, when to upgrade, to electrify or not to electrify, shotguns, marine motivation, et cetera. Please, I implore you. Take me on a crash course through Practical Comming 101. Your student is waiting.
Comments
get res
get upgrades
attack
-calldown
<a href='http://www.ausns.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=3986' target='_blank'>http://www.ausns.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=3986</a>
Hope that helps...
Armor upgrades are the most useful in pubs , since marines rarely cover each other , so if they don't survive long enough on their own you won't cap many nodes. Most comms go a1 , w1 , w2 , w3 to let their marines survive early game against skulks and survive mid game against fades.
Oooh! A LTPFTP! Welcome to the forums. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One quick tip about pub comming is to tailor your strat to team size. 8 or fewer players on each team, it's usually best to go IP -> armory -> pack of mines for base defense, electrify maybe one resource tower, rush the upgrades, and do your best to hunt down enemy res and lock down a hive. Larger games, the electrified TF for base defense is more effective, as is electrifying most of your RTs. Also, in the smaller games you'll want a1 -> w1 -> w2 -> w3 for early fades (make sure to drop shotguns), but in larger games go a1 -> w1 -> a2 -> w2 -> w3, because armor 2 now takes 4 skulk bites.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most pubbers will eject you for not building the armory instantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't really found this to be true most of the time - it's actually usually quite effective to get humpers out of base on the first res rush. Just don't be a nazi about dropping the armory - it should arrive within the first 1:30. Don't get discouraged if you get ejected, on pubs you can get insta-ejected for the most bizarre reasons sometimes, ie. not dropping armory on start, dropping armory on start, dropping/not dropping TF on start, trying to relocate, not having a clan tag in your name...
Good luck!
They are a waste of res.
Realize that defenses will not kill alien's hives, but upgrading your marines will.
My recommended build order which will almost always win a pub game:
- ONE ip
- Armory
- Arms Lab (rush lv. 1 armor)
- Pack of mines to a good player who will plant them accordingly
- Tell you marines to get THE HELL OUT OF BASE and to GET SOME NODES
- CAP CAP CAP as many nodes as possible, give medspam and ammo where nessesary to your marines... always give medspam and ammo. For a little res ity will go a long way towards winning your game
- As you are capping nodes continue upgrading in this order:
- As soon as you get 20 extra res research weapons 1
- Build another IP
- Build an Obs, research phase gates
- Upgrade armory at this point
- Continue with weapons
- Once armory is upgraded build prototype lab and research HA
As you are doing this start up a phase network while continually sending your marines at the aliens and the nodes, just keep capping and keep telling the marines to move foward and kill the alien's stuff, keep giving medspam and stuff
As soon as phase gates are done sneak up a phase near an aliens hive that is CLOSE to their hive and build sieges and start seiging their hive
If the aliens get up fades drop some shotties to your best marines, HMG's too if you have them
You won't even need static defenses, marines are always dying and respawning back in serving as base defense, meanwhile if any of your nodes fall under attack tell one of your marines to go to the node and save it from destruction
Also, never sell your nodes unless it:
- Is in the yellows
- Only a skulk or gorge is killing it
- Your marines are way too far away to get to it in time
If a fade is hitting it let the fade kill it, it wastes his time while he instead could be killing your marines
If an onos is hitting it, you will never be able to recycle it before the onos kills it so you are best of leaving the node to get an extra res or two before it's destroyed.
Hope that helps <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
- Is in the yellows
- Only a skulk or gorge is killing it
- Your marines are way too far away to get to it in time
If a fade is hitting it let the fade kill it, it wastes his time while he instead could be killing your marines
If an onos is hitting it, you will never be able to recycle it before the onos kills it so you are best of leaving the node to get an extra res or two before it's destroyed.
Hope that helps <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What forlorn forgets to mention is that if you ever witness a gorge trying to spit a RT to death, please call it out on voicecomm for the team. Marines always like a comm that helps them get knife kills.
Also, if you have trouble getting marines to cap res, you can use a trick I picked up off evox. Tell your marines over voicecomm that the first marine to build a rt gets a shotgun. Works everytime, especially with that initial armory humping.
Tell your marines over voicecomm that the first marine to build a rt gets a shotgun. Works everytime, especially with that initial armory humping. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am going to use this.
Tell your marines over voicecomm that the first marine to build a rt gets a shotgun. Works everytime, especially with that initial armory humping. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am going to use this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sounds great, yeah.
And as for practical comming .... well meh, what that Forlorn dude said tbh.
Armor upgrades are the most useful in pubs , since marines rarely cover each other , so if they don't survive long enough on their own you won't cap many nodes. Most comms go a1 , w1 , w2 , w3 to let their marines survive early game against skulks and survive mid game against fades. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats certainly NOT true. I respect pub comms who don't drop stuff like TF and Armoury right away. Usually waiting on these produces good results -- and most non-n00bs know that.
Holy sh*t I thought I was the only one who this happened to!
Second, be sure you know how the game works. What this does, what that does - ladi lada. Maybe try to remember a few matches - like how many times Skulks got 2 of 3 bites in on you before dying, how many times you lived so much longer because that comm saw your "Err, someone bit off my leg" problem and dropped you meds. Also take a good few moments to remember how much **** turrets suck against anything but Skulks/Lerks, and don't build them in defensive positions.
And once you get in the chair, remember to talk. Alot. Lowers chances of being ejected, and keeps your team updated on what they should be doing, shouldn't be doing and what you're trying to achieve. From there on, just develope your own style and ideas - no single approach is necessarily the best for every team. Anything that makes some sense is worth trying <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Knowing which hive the aliens have is essential. It instantly boosts morale gives marines direction and shows that you know what you're doing. Finding the hive is simple, just mouse over the resource node in each hive, and when you hear the RT ambient noise thats their hive. I usually drop ip/armory, then do it quickly, so when I find the hive I can drop an rt, then drop an arms lab, and mines, since the armory will be built.
Another thing that is very helpful is calling out enemy nodes, or telling your marines what is in a key location (eg. Egging in Southloop, when marines are near southloop).
However, I think the two most important things are dropping meds/ammo and having a plan. It isn't very hard to drop meds/ammo (just click on the little icon that appears in the lower left side of the screen - which takes you to the person who called for it - then press e, s or e,a for meds and ammo respectively). Dropping meds/ammo boosts morale and shows that you are a competent comm. Having a plan and voicing it to your marines is definitely the way to go. Most people expect upgrades very quickly, and will most likely eject the comm if he isn't getting them. If you specifically state something like, "we are rushing pgs, then ups," they understand whats happening and are far more likely to go along with it.
The biggest suggestion I can give you is not to give up. Just because you lose doesn't mean you aren't learning. Many top cal-i comms would be more than willing to give you comm demos, if you pm them.
Armor upgrades are the most useful in pubs , since marines rarely cover each other , so if they don't survive long enough on their own you won't cap many nodes. Most comms go a1 , w1 , w2 , w3 to let their marines survive early game against skulks and survive mid game against fades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats certainly NOT true. I respect pub comms who don't drop stuff like TF and Armoury right away. Usually waiting on these produces good results -- and most non-n00bs know that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not dropping an armory at the start is literally retarded, as the delay of the arms lab slows down your entire game
Remember, you need the armory in order to build the arms lab
As a commander you have to guage the effectiveness of each marines, the larger games get, the less you can watch most marines. A lot of pub commanders completely ignore individual marines, but more often then not you'll have at least one or two better then average marines. These two marines will probably get 50% of your kills. A good example is actually Apocalypse. If i'm comming and he's on, I actually hotkey him. Just him. I'd keep him with meds and ammo, and he could win the game outright for me because he'd have 40% of the teams kills.
If you have good marines that pressing the attack and keeping the aliens cornered, i'd go for a minimal electrification strat. That means you only electrify key points on the map, and leave the less unelectrified. You're going to lose nodes that way. Find one guy who listens, he doesn't need to aim that well, and have him recap nodes. You don't need your entire team capping nodes. This allows you to tech early in the game, giving your marines who can shoot a substantial advantage over vanilla skulks. Some people rush armor 1, others rush phase tech, and some rush motion. It really depends on the map and on the players. The larger the map, the more you need phase tech. If it's a map like nancy, i'd go for armor or motion becuase of the vent system. Sometimes, if you're playing with REAL pubbers, aliens who can't do higher level lifeforms, marines who can't aim, you have to electrify everything. This only works in large games, 10v10+ and fails miserably in 6v6.
Speaking of nancy, thats one of the circumstances where not building an armory might help you. Getting people into mess hall to try and take it is important.
Common Mistakes Comms make:
1) having no base defense. Personally, I think 10 res in mines does wonders. You drop them around the ip, and if the skulks are spawn camping and a marine jumps around, chances are they'll hit the mine and all the skulks at base will die. But you have to MAKE SURE the mines go around the ip. Don't hesitate to drop yourself mines and mine them yourself. Those mines have to go AROUND THE IP, not at the entrances. I'm against the electrified turret factory in the beginning, because i think it wastes 40 res when you could easily over protect your base for 20 res.
2) electrifying everything when your team is owning. Go with the momentum. Upgrade. If you have marines who are in the alien hive spawn camping, KEEP THEM WITH MEDS AND AMMO. if a guy has half your teams kills, keep him with meds and ammo! thats all you have to do as a comm to gain the advantage in the early game.
3) having absolutely no plan in the beginning. Most comms instantly "listen for the hive". You just listen for their starting RT. Or, aliens who spawn in. From there you have a game plan. Remember, in 12v12 you have a strong advantage as a marine commander, and as long as you're aggressive enough you can win the game within 10 minutes.
4) don't drop random guns in base unless you have a lot of res to spare. chances, are, the people who are in base are retarded. Why else would someone be in base still unless they were mentally deficient? You have to call individual people who can aim for guns. You have to drop heavies, welders, and guns on individual people. You can drop five heavies, but it will make a BIG difference if your five best players get them or if your five worst players get them. On certain maps, having jetpacks and heavies are important too. One onos and a lerk and a few skulks can decimiate a heavy train in the right spot. But one Jetpacker with level 3 hmg can kill all the skulks and the lerk, or an un-umbraed onos, if he's halfway decent. Ask your best players if they want jetpacks, if they do, research it for them.
5) Hotkey your buildings. If they are attacked you can see them being attacked. You can hotkey phasegates too to see if they're getting attacked. If you're conducting an attack, keep scanning the hives you HOLD, to make sure they're not being attacked.
I guess the bottom line to being a commander is to listen to your best marines, not just your most vocal marines. Ask them what they think, If they think you're trying to command, and you're trying to keep them with meds and ammo and upgrades, they will help you in return. If you treat them with respect, you will get considerably better as a commander.
Some good tips there - I would like to hear from people what is effective when marines can't aim... I think that MT and shotties are best in such a case, but that requires a lot of res. LOL <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Once you have income established, I've found it best to just tell your marines to get into small groups and cause trouble for the kharaa. Every second they spend trying to defend their own rts is time you buy for your own. The marines who know what they are doing will usually provide enough guidance for you to concentrate on something other than babysitting.
Other than that, the two main principles you need to understand to comm well are that arms labs upgrades are the most cost effective investment by far, and to not be afraid to drop guns when they will be useful. Even if it takes 5 shotties, killing that fade or onos ASAP will make it worth while. Big guns aren't just for endgames, or marines with HA or JP.
I cannot stress enough what someone already said about people skills. If other marines have mics chat with them (relevant stuff of course), make jokes, encourage them, shout random TSA taunts over the microphone and when they kill an onos or a fade say something like "back of the net" or equally random yet humerous in your owl little world.
Marines like that you're paying attention to them and that your not off doing your own thing somewhere, they like to feel appreciated. As a comm one thing i've started doing is almost giving a running commentary on battles as i watch them.(being careful not to spam though) Not only does it keep my marines updated of the aliens health around them (yellow, red, how many bars etc) but it also adds abit of humour to it all and makes the entire that much more enjoyable. An example, marines encounter an onos "Go on son, GIVE IT SOME WELLY, oh yes, oh yes, Oh he's on yellow! CHASE THAT MOFO down, he's on red! Go on, 'ave at it lads! GJ!" *spam meds and rejoice* If your marines like you they will do as you ask and even if they all die it gets the laughs in.
That being said though don't be afriad to order them around. If your outpost is under attack even if it's a team of good friends they'll get directions barked at them over the mic so they know the urgency of it. If at the end though they all die, hey at least they tried and just say "nice try lads, not a prob" and just carry on as usual.
And at the end of the game, whilst it's nice to get the GG comm it's also nice to say "GJ team, you made that much easier" or whatever.
Well, i hope my random ramblings will help someone, somewhere and if not feel free to eject me when i get in the chair <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: People like being put in squad 5 too.
Don't electrify every res node, get your marines to defend them. If Station access is under attack, look for the closest marine and tell them to go there. Electrify costs 30 res, replacing it costs 15 res.
Keep your marines informed of whats going on even if you don't want them to do anything. For instance, theres a skulk at maint look out. Fade near Triad. Incoming to CC.
Your marines will love you for MT. Apart from Armour 1 it is probably the most important upgrade.
PG's will hold a position where a TF won't.
Use turrets spareingly. 1 Turret = 1 Shotgun.
If you need to hold a postion, don't be afriad to use med packs.
A marine can't kill much without ammo, so give it to them, 2 packs is usually sufficient.
Don't be afraid to beacon.
Get your marines to group up, and move out together.
Tell them your plan.
Tell them what your upgrading.
Don't give out things just because people ask for them.
Complain when people don't follow way points.
The counter to fades, is shotguns and grouped marines.
If aliens are overwhealming you, attack a hive - force the issue.
Make aliens react to you, not the other way around.
Don't wait until HA and JP's to hand out heavy weapons.
Sieging costs 25 + 15 + 15 (TF, upgrade, 2 sieges) = 55 res. 1 GL costs 20.
The counter to Onos is HMG's or JP's.
The counter to SC is NOT MT. You will need obs and will need to scan around your marines.
If aliens get SC on the first hive, push to take 2 hives early at the expense of res towers.
Mines when attacking a hive can be the key to a succesful siege.
Armour is vital, don't be afraid to hand out a few welders.
Congratualte good work.
Reasure marines when things go wrong.
Encourage groups of marines to chase down Onos.
Its not over until the fat cow chuckles...
Well theres some advice that in part may help you suceeed. I'm sure not everyone will agree with all my points.
Not sure how effective this is, but when a comm scans one hive when I'm on the alien team I'll stay in the vicinity of that hive for a while because I know the probability of attack going there has just increased.
If you scan both hives then you're less likely to have most the alien team waiting for you.
Edit: Another tip that I didn't see in my scan of this post is that in the beginning of the game after you've dropped your armory and ip you can go listen to the resource node in each hive to see what hive theyre in
1 ip -> 1 armory -> upgrade armory -> cap res res res!
Then youll have proto lab at 3:40. And jps before clock ticks 5 mins <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And ofcourse you do arms lab, youll prolly get armor 1 and wep 1 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
But actually works on little bigger games (8vs8 etc) with right maps.
Edit: Another tip that I didn't see in my scan of this post is that in the beginning of the game after you've dropped your armory and ip you can go listen to the resource node in each hive to see what hive theyre in <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
IF you electrify all nodes (not including MS node), then that really is a waste of res.
You act as if you had 200 res to blow. :|
When you electrify a node, you essentially put off 2 minutes of profitability. When you build a regular RT, it takes 1 minute for it to pay off its cost, with electricity, it takes 3. Not to mention that a fade or a gorge+skulk combo could go and screw it up.
The only nodes I electrify are hive nodes. That, and put a phase gate right next to it.
That's really the best strategy, it gives you the essential defense you need, and you have enough res to upgrade your ammo-humping public server marines.