Do You Believe In Vac?

XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
edited December 2003 in NS General Discussion
Now that NS3 hopefully isn't too far away I would just like to hear some of your opinions. Do you believe that valve will care about NS at all with VAC? Personally I don't think valve gives a **** about NS, look at the active cheats out there, sure valve updates the VAC but only for cheats working with CS, however if you look up DoD cheats you will find very old working cheats (not only WH but AimBot and all that junk), I've a very hard time believing valve will update VAC at all if they find a NS exclusive cheat. In my opinion the UD's CD will do a better job than VAC in the terms of stopping the cheats. Sure VAC gives global bans, but what good are the global bans if VAC can't find a cheat anyway?

So my ultimate question will be:" Do you believe more in VAC or CD?"

PS. Not like VAC is anything good blocking cs-cheats.....
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Comments

  • Roger_DodgerRoger_Dodger Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
    If valve cares about its customers (money) they will.
    It would be a stupid idea to give support to a mod which will be official with steam and not look after it. I bought HL just for the fact so that i could play NS online im sure im not the only person whos purchased a game just for its mod eg: hl/cs, bf/dc.

    - RD
  • ubermenschubermensch Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11692Banned
    sure. it's better than no vac.
  • QwomgQwomg Join Date: 2003-11-29 Member: 23733Members
    VAC is good. It can even block OGC 4!!!!! OMGWTHLOL!!!11one

    vac does nothing. most servers have vac, half of them (not just ns, every hl mod) have cheaters playing in em.
    But still, if someone would enter the server with like "ogc 1", he'll probably get caught. by the other players.
  • S_BadguyS_Badguy Join Date: 2003-12-03 Member: 23925Members
    Its all about C-D f00ls.
  • BirdyBirdy Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16825Members, Constellation
  • DarkDudeDarkDude Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19088Members
    Hell no, VAC doesn't even do a good job with CS.

    Everytime I get on a server it seems like there is at least one guy hacking, almost never fails. Obviously that 5 year ban isn't stopping anybody from hacking, hell, the only people they seem to slap that ban on are false-positives. VAC needs some real work before it is going to ever be able to stop anything.
  • ubermenschubermensch Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11692Banned
    VAC is just there, it requires no extra work on anyones part to install or maintain, and it catches a few cheats.

    no one said it was the end all of every hack in existence, not even valve. it puts a stop to the old ones, and unlike some of the ignorants in this thread would have you to believe, some of the newer ones too, such as metacheat. sure there's a new versionf of metacheat out 15 minutes after every VAC detection, but hey, it keeps the **** on their toes and 5 year bans a few won/steam IDs in the process, so why not?
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--kann_nix+Dec 10 2003, 08:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Dec 10 2003, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> VAC is just there, it requires no extra work on anyones part to install or maintain, and it catches a few cheats.

    no one said it was the end all of every hack in existence, not even valve. it puts a stop to the old ones, and unlike some of the ignorants in this thread would have you to believe, some of the newer ones too, such as metacheat. sure there's a new versionf of metacheat out 15 minutes after every VAC detection, but hey, it keeps the **** on their toes and 5 year bans a few won/steam IDs in the process, so why not? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think you missunderstood my point. I know it can block some of the almost new ones, however they only carea bout CS, there are very old dod aimbots which works. Even though they care about CS they're not catching the WH that's been working for centuries anyway. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • XiileXiile Join Date: 2003-02-22 Member: 13818Members
  • ThE_HeRoThE_HeRo Join Date: 2003-01-25 Member: 12723Members
    neither does much. if a hacker wants to hack, there isn't anything you can do to stop him. except banning him from your server.
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Members
    doesnt vac work on the principle that as new hacks arise they will eventually be added to the vac database?

    Vac is still much newer than C-D (I never liked C-D in the first place because it was more trouble than it was worth) which should make it obvious that it won't be able to stop as much, just due to the fact that it hasn't been through as many updates. Also C-D always had the advantage of requiring users to download something that was supposed to stop thier cheats, while at the same time there were always tonnes of servers that were still easy targets that hackers could just go to instead(C-D was always advertized in the sever title). Now that nearly everyone uses steam, hackers are forced to work around it, they can no longer just ignore the "C-D only" servers. Therefore vac has the immediate disadvantage of having every cheat builder trying to circumvent it, whereas C-D was for the most part ignored.

    If you are really desperate to stop hackers just include the words "C-D required" in your server title and they will assume someone got C-D working for steam and go somewhere else (nearly all of the time at least).
  • sheena_yanaisheena_yanai Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11426Members
    vac does not even stop speedhackin gorges...
  • PaqueMannPaqueMann Join Date: 2003-05-22 Member: 16606Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    VAC up until now hasn't done any good, I see people getting right around it in CS, but I also hear they are working on improving it.
  • Lightning_BlueLightning_Blue Sunny Domination Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10647Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver
    VAC is next to useless, uses a bunch of extra server CPU to run and has a tendency to false ban you if say you have corrupted memory.
  • Paranoia2MBParanoia2MB Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7832Members
    Admins = Ultimate hacker/cheater counter.

    <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MrPinkMrPink Join Date: 2002-05-28 Member: 678Members
    VAC and C-D stop your ever so common idiot who just googles for "counter strike hacks", downloads and installs a .exe, it doesn't keep out the super nerds but hey it seems to stop the vast majority.
  • FlikFlik Join Date: 2003-09-28 Member: 21286Members
    VAC threatened to kick me when ever I tried using the "Buy Previuous Inventory" function in Counter-Stizick. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

    <i>btw, I can't play Natural Selection on my CS Retail w/ Steam, guess I gotta stick to CS for now.</i>
  • RuByRuBy Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10732Members
    edited December 2003
    there's nothing better than an admin

    edit: except maybe a poptart.
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Dec 11 2003, 12:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Dec 11 2003, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also C-D always had the advantage of requiring users to download something that was supposed to stop thier cheats, while at the same time there were always tonnes of servers that were still easy targets that hackers could just go to instead(C-D was always advertized in the sever title). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ever wondered why it takes longer time to connect to a VAC server? Because it downloads a client everytime you connect, so if you didin't konw, VAC is also client wise. But VAC uses one of the stupiest ways of blocking cheats, instead of trying to cut off the cheat's injecting method they do something called string scanning, which is scanning the memory for "parts" that looks like a cheat, that's why a new metacheat is always released 15 mins after a VAC update, all they need to do is the change some lines! CD attempts to make it impossible for the cheats to hook into the client, which automaticlly means harder to crack.
  • RueRue Join Date: 2002-10-21 Member: 1564Members
    I like CD better mainly cause if you have it on optional then people who just start playing NS can play on your server and only their name changes, but if someone is doing really really good and he has CD loaded then you cant really suspect him. and doesnt CD give u a cool little icon on the scoreboard <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • eXoeXo Join Date: 2003-11-23 Member: 23404Members
    Cheating-Death all the way ! I only say... Vac sux... =/ If i play on a C-D server noone whine almost noone whie on cheters and so on...
    But on Vac server eavrybody say OMG, aimboter / wallhacker and so on =//

    I think vac a long way behind Cheating-Death and will always be! The only problem is to get ppl to download Cheating-Death =\ moste of the ppls are to lazzyyy to download it! <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Soylent_greenSoylent_green Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11220Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    VAC's better than nothing and false bans can be appealed and are rare(...just look at VALVe's info page on appealing bans on the steam forum, they can check what caused VAC to trigger and nearly allways it is a known cheat, not something which might be a false positive).

    There is also a fair bit of FUD from cheat monglers/the miss-informed that VAC might cause false bans due to memory corruption being detected as a known cheat which was fixed a long time ago.

    Also VAC might be touchy about client-side hooks, but it should be since nearly all of them are useless or cheats(C-D is an example of a usefull client-side hook, OGC is an example of a naughty one and HLamp is an example of a completely useless one). Some people got banned for running HLamp in an old VAC update, VALVe did a roll back and voila those are now unbanned.
  • V_MANV_MAN V-MAN Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6217Members, Constellation
    The Idea around VAC was sound tho, someone caught cheating on a VAC server is then banned forever or something <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> from all servers running VAC. Dunno if this is the case.
  • Ryse_SladeRyse_Slade Germany Join Date: 2002-12-22 Member: 11349Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Idea around VAC was sound tho, someone caught cheating on a VAC server is then banned forever or something  from all servers running VAC. Dunno if this is the case.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, this is what VAC does.

    Fact is, on CD servers you do not find that many cheaters (at least no obvious ones).
    Fact is, on every other server (VAC or not) there are sometimes cheaters (e.g. obvious aimbots).

    Anyways VAC does not require any actions from the user so I like it. Maybe when Steam is running without any major bugs they will put some more attention into VAC. As long as VAC does not catch those mighty cheats I recommend you play on CD servers if you think there are cheaters everywhere.
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    Basically, you have this between VAC and C-D.

    C-D:

    - Stops all cheats except for the newest ones, which are often times harder to find for the average nub
    - Virtually no lag and CPU usage
    - Does not punish users for false positives (no bans)
    - Updated very frequently
    - Simple to use and understand

    VAC:

    - Stops only the oldest of cheats, you can hack on a VAC server without breaking a sweat
    - Has lag, has CPU usage
    - Severly punishes users, false positives are a nightmare
    - Updated <b>very</b> infrequently, it's hard to believe this is an offical valve product it's neglected so badly
    - Not simple to understand, but it's simplicity to use is that you install a server patch for your game and boom you have instant anti-cheat protection


    The bottem line:

    VAC sucks. Untill valve actually sinks some time and money into it, Flayra is kicking himself in the nuts by going with VAC.

    The ideal scenerio is that VAC and C-D could work together, but again, VAC is such a terribly neglected program that it seems unlikely VAC will ever work with UD anytime soon.


    And, again, the best protection against hackers is admins... but admins aren't always there, C-D is an admins best friend.


    Also, using the argument that "since C-D doesn't stop all hacks, it's useless!" has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard, by that logic we should also disband our docters and tell the sick that since one of them are going to die, there's no point in saving the others.
  • AngeluszAngelusz Harmonic entropist Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    cd rules, but sometimes can be very annoying, updates so often :o
  • ubermenschubermensch Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11692Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--MrPink+Dec 11 2003, 12:25 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrPink @ Dec 11 2003, 12:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> VAC and C-D stop your ever so common idiot who just googles for "counter strike hacks", downloads and installs a .exe, it doesn't keep out the super nerds but hey it seems to stop the vast majority. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    so true, this happend to a kid i know, he's no longer able to use his counter-strike retail key due to a 5 year ban, poor idiotic him <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • ubermenschubermensch Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11692Banned
    edited December 2003
    <span style='color:purple'><b>flamebait</span></b>
  • ForlornForlorn Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin--kann_nix+Dec 11 2003, 02:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kann_nix @ Dec 11 2003, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Dec 11 2003, 10:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Dec 11 2003, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, using the argument that "since C-D doesn't stop all hacks, it's useless!" has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard, by that logic we should also disband our docters and tell the sick that since one of them are going to die, there's no point in saving the others. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    you jumped all over with your argument, first by saying that

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->VAC sucks. Untill valve actually sinks some time and money into it, Flayra is kicking himself in the nuts by going with VAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    clearly implying that you're against all forms of VAC and support its NOT being used in the next update of NS, and then go on to say

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, using the argument that "since C-D doesn't stop all hacks, it's useless!" has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    this time clearly implying that you are against those who think VAC is useless based on the fact that it doesn't catch all hacks, you're criticizing THEM for supporting your initial argument (that VAC is sucks),
    followed by a half-hearted attempt at sounding clever with an analogy that makes no sense <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Did you just say I make no sense?

    Because if I'm not mistaken you quoted me on the same thing twice and gave two different responses to it.



    And in case you couldn't read my first post without carrying in an agenda, again, lets look at the <b>facts</b>:

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Stops all cheats except for the newest ones, which are often times harder to find for the average nub<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->- Stops only the oldest of cheats, you can hack on a VAC server without breaking a sweat<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    See the difference as to why I'd take CD over VAC?


    GG
  • IBTIBT Join Date: 2003-10-22 Member: 21879Members
    u ppl <b>play and enjoy</b> cs?
    /me runs for washroom and everyone is soon to hear a *HURK*

    im not one to know much cheats and anticheat programs, but there was this site telling how to spot and make cheaters game mizerable, like that aimbot that changed the color of the models and depending on your team your aim would automaticly go on the guy and with the color and lock onto him, if the cheaters terrorst, all you need is a blue spray, and the cheater would be stuck aiming at that spray, god the demo they put is HALAROUS!!
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