Focus bite/slash/gore/etc attack kills armor lvl 0 marines with 2 or 1 bite. Then when combined with the sensory chamber's automatic cloaking, you'll be able to run up to the marine, bite him, fade back into cloak, and do it again and again until the entire enemy attackers are dead. <b>DEAD.</b> Killed by sensory first-hive! Two or <b>one</b> bite, focus will kill in. //Yoda
Now as long as focus doesn't get removed... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i HATE focus, seems like bs to me and i dont like the direction NS is now going, cat packs indeed.... but also being killed one bite by a mob of skulks will make it VERY difficult for marines to do ANYTHING constructive. Cat packs take RESEARCH at an ARMS LAB before theyre used, focus goes up after 10 seconds of game time, see a pattern here? They dont exactly balance but yes, shotgun rushes will be much more bs after this is involved, who needs lvl 1 weapons when ur all hyped up on somethign that makes you faster and yet kills you slowly. I want to know what this has to do with the lerk+bite, -spikes. Yet another bias towards marines, who have EVERYTHING costing less. I understand that Flayra wants NS to be faster, but FFS its gonna be pretty damn fast after the aliens cant hit jack-**** from a distance and get shotguns i ntheir face every time because they have no fear of lerks spiking them from a distance. Get rid of the lerks cat pack for aliens, Primal Scream or spores, it always fitted the Onos liek a glove, but seeing that Onoses cant use charge because its nerfed(you can never hit anything) how about giving it back and changing the lerk back to the old 1.0x configuration???
Soz about the ramblin post, i feel very fond of my lerkies
Your idea Maveric, while rather sound, would require the alien team to have plopped up SC all around within the first minute or two of game, while simultaniously having three SC up. Until 3 SC I believe that it still takes 2 bites to kill lvl0 armor.
ok i know i may be pushing the big red button here but here we go... if marines get super fast shooting shottys welded by Ha's what is the best way to take them out? Ambush?, possibly. Lerk spikes and umbra?, once again possibly. the best way i found in the early version of the game was *drum roll*..... the babblers! gorge stands round corner, as a skulk with cloaking surveys marines with Ha+shotys+welders coming up corridor, he tells gorges they are coming, gorge puts down mc to give him more energy and creats thousands of babblers. now the shotguns hold them off for a long while, but 2 gorges can kill a whole army of HA's if only they had gud energy and the babblers ability...
pls flayra, bring bak the babblers, the game is balanced. the end lol
well its all about teamwork... if u cant play with ur fellow team then the other side will win, weather they have lerks with spikes (lerks MUST have spikes otherwise it's unbalanced... com'on marines can just walk up a long hallway with no fear aslong as they have a shotty in there hands) or suped up shotty freaks (balanced if the babblers come bak to the gorges abilities list...)
think about it flayra... just think about what will make both teams balenced and even.
<!--QuoteBegin--Trevelyan+Nov 9 2003, 06:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Trevelyan @ Nov 9 2003, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->hey guysss.... Catpacks + Shotgun rush + <b>Lerks with NO FREKIN SPIKE</b> + more expensive fade (60) + Recycling unbuilt/built structures now gives 100%/50% resources back, instead of 80%/40%+ TF reduced from 15 to 10+ Armory reduced from 15 to 10 (2 more patches and it is free!) + Reduced motion-tracking cost from 45 to 35 + Marine team with a brain = aliens lose aliens lose aliens lose aliens lose.
Add in the fact they fixed the alien hitboxes (They fortunetly upped Armor for fade and onos thanks Dev team, you own...) and Reduced HMG damage from 20 to 18... this upcoming patch is going to be shotgun rush heaven for all comms.
The new routine for a winning marine team would be:
Get shotguns, tell them to rush the hives constantly, upgrade lvl 1 armor then weapons till victory.
A skilled medspam comm will make rines SHRED higher lifeforms... imagine 2 catpacked LA rines ripping an onos down in mere seconds... or 3... god it will be SAD!
Fortunetly i thought up a counter stratigy for the aliens. MC first... it has to take Defense over as the main Alien chamber. We need silence and cerelity to take those Shottys down fast and hard. Maybe SC will work to if your team is a little organised. But for pubs with the usual amount of noobs, we need MC. Your gonna need lerk bite **** from 1.04 and alot of luck (spikes would be SOOOOOOO better... horrible timing). Spores is a 2nd slot weapon still i think, so all is not lost. 3 lerks should be able to spore a rine shotgun team into subission, but it will take time. the 2nd hive is gonna be the biggest thing... no more early fades... have one person save for onos and go straight for the 2nd hive. Your cerelity skulks love leap to get some limited flight capabilities... and silence leap-bite skulks are DEADLY, even WITH motion tracking (which will be used ALOT now because of the price decrease, and how awsome MT is with shotguns.). Get some onos, get Defense 2nd Unless your doing good with skulks and lerks (lerks are going to be used ALOT, even without spikes.... WHY WHY NOT SPIKES?!??!?)
Lerks are better then fades for the usual pub team ( i know fade fans will tear up shotties, i've done it myself <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) because thier cheap, fast, long ranged very slightly (enough to want to be lerks), and supportive in nature. Lerks with cerelity skulks with make shotties die fast, especially with tons of spore spam... spore, everywhere on the level... make em die a slow death.
Well i figured that would work the best... keep moving fast and keep those shotties on the ground. Same can be done with SC, but MC is much better in a two hive lockdown situation. Marines are in for a field day no matter what stratigy you use though <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: one good thing though... another way you could do it is MC, then SC... i am sure it would work just as good as Defense... all you have to do is keep those shotties on the ground, it will slow the team's development, and keep their RFK to a minimum.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> what an enormous post, every one quote this one after another and see how big we can get it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
get rid of primal scream for the lerks (having a small parrot that can scream so loud all other animals around it get a severe adreneline rush? com'on man!) . it was always better on the bigger aliens, like the onos, so if it is going back on the onos take away charge or something else but not devour and stun!
I would like to see things back the way they used to be, and give lerk bite and spike at first hive. Spore AND spike are obviously overpowerful for only a first hive. Spore would still be very useful during Hive 2, and at hive 3 umbra would be a great tool for clearing out those wandering HA trains or GL spammers walled up in main spawn.
Give Gorges back the web at Hive 2. When it used to be like that, web showed great tactical importance in the game with webbing up marine rushes or putting web traps ahead of a lerk or wall of OCs. And Bio Bomb would still be very useful at Hive 3, so the new change would benefeit both attacks. Plus it makes the Welder just that much more of a useful tool, clearing out webed hallways and such.
Onos should get back Primal Scream, it makes absolute sense and should have never been taken away in the first place.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stoneburg+Nov 9 2003, 03:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Nov 9 2003, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wouldn't go so far as to call it a "topic". Two "heheheheheheheh" + an exerpt from the changelog. He must have put in a good 0.03 seconds of thought into that one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol i dont have a big enough attention span to write anything... so all i do is quote, excerpt, link, make up simple topic thingies, etc.....
lol i havent even read all this yet.... and i dont read general disccusion, or whatever this topic is in..
If anything, it might be a good idea to remove primal, and have weapon order be :
1- spike 2- bite 3- umbra 4- spore
This way, umbra will still help out at hive two, and lerk will have both a ranged attack and a close one. Spore could be back to being pretty deadly, and a lerk will be good for each hive.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If anything, it might be a good idea to remove primal, and have weapon order be :
The thing with spore being at hive 3, is that if the marines don't have HA by then, then they are probably going to lose. So either your Spore is innefective against HA, or it's helping finish off a marine base that was doomed to die anyways. I'm not saying spore will be useless at hive 3, but I think it would be MUCH more useful earlier at Hive 2.
Spore used to be at hive 3 back around 1.04 IIRC, and it wasn't very important to the game. By the time you got it, Fades and Umbra were already finishing off the marines, or you had a group of Onos and fades moving in on their spawn, which at such a time would be better suited for umbra anyways.
Fades/Acid Rocket/Umbra used to be the Kharaa's equivalent to HA/HMG/GL/Welders, but now I don't think the Kharaa have anything strong enough to beat out an HA train anymore. Likewise, the marines don't start out with anything strong enough to counter Spore clouds from vents, which makes the outcome of each game very predictable. People can tell which team is going to win before the game is even halfway done.
I'm not saying the game is too imbalanced to be enjoyable or anything, I am just giving out my thoughts. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I use primal scream frequently. It's very handly, particularly durning a CC raid in combat mode. You can take out a comm chair FAST with primal scream if you and a couple buddies can get a clean shot at it for a few seconds. I'll take whatever lerk configuration they decide on, I'm sure it will be good.
I personally think that lerk bite complimented with spores is a far better combination than the spike/spore was for killing LA marines, the thing that worries me about it is thier ability to kill JP's, i forsee nearly invincible marine teams with 1-2 HA's to take out OC's, and the rest all JP, the JP would be nearly unkillable unless you fluked out.
I heard that the deves unnerfed onos charge, any playtesters care to elaborate?
Catalysts are really effective if used well by the commander. If a squad of LMG LA marines meet with a wall of Offense Chambers, they should just duck for cover and request a Catpack. If the Commander drops them one each, the marines are able to move out together and shoot the OC wall down faster than a 1.04 Lerk can navigate a vent. If the same team meets up with an early Onos or Fade, a few Catpacks will give the marines the advantage. I won't even mention how effective Catpacks are against a Hive...
The Lerk is perfect as it is now. It is primarily a support alien (Umbra, Primal Scream, Spore), but it is also able to hold its own in combat (Bite), especially with the new flight system.
Focus is a great ability, but its 'one bite kill' effect is only really seen when a Level 3 Focus Skulk attacks a Level 0 armor marine. Level 1 armor easily counters this. Where focus really shines is versus Heavy Armors and Jetpackers. When a Skulk is fighting a jetpacker, they usually only have enough time to get one bite in before the jetpacker becomes out of range again. With Focus you can make this bite count. A Focus skulk rush is surprisingly effective against a HA train too...
<!--QuoteBegin--Swiftspear+Nov 18 2003, 09:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Nov 18 2003, 09:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally think that lerk bite complimented with spores is a far better combination than the spike/spore was for killing LA marines, the thing that worries me about it is thier ability to kill JP's, i forsee nearly invincible marine teams with 1-2 HA's to take out OC's, and the rest all JP, the JP would be nearly unkillable unless you fluked out.
I heard that the deves unnerfed onos charge, any playtesters care to elaborate? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> With the new flight system and lerk bites, lerk are a much better counter to JP than they were before. They are actually more manouverable than JP in my opinion, and are excellent at ramming JP and biting them, which of course knocks them around and makes flying difficult. At the moment, JP isn't used as much as it used to be in the games I've seen, due to the high effectiveness of lerks bites.
Bite > JP Bite + Spore > LA HA > Lerk, as always. That's what onos are for.
They increased onos charge damage fairly substantially. It's still not as frightening as I've heard it was back in the 1.x days, but it's better. You can actually kill things with it sometimes. It's up to 320 damage per second of contact. (Leap also got boosted, up to 80 per second of contact)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They increased onos charge damage fairly substantially. It's still not as frightening as I've heard it was back in the 1.x days, but it's better. You can actually kill things with it sometimes. It's up to 320 damage per second of contact. (Leap also got boosted, up to 80 per second of contact) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
does that mean that when you are charging into a base that if you are running agiant something for 1 second it does 320 damage, then on top of that you can still gore the target right?
Comments
HONEST!
Focus bite/slash/gore/etc attack kills armor lvl 0 marines with 2 or 1 bite. Then when combined with the sensory chamber's automatic cloaking, you'll be able to run up to the marine, bite him, fade back into cloak, and do it again and again until the entire enemy attackers are dead.
<b>DEAD.</b> Killed by sensory first-hive!
Two or <b>one</b> bite, focus will kill in. //Yoda
Now as long as focus doesn't get removed... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Soz about the ramblin post, i feel very fond of my lerkies
pls flayra, bring bak the babblers, the game is balanced. the end lol
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
think about it flayra... just think about what will make both teams balenced and even.
Add in the fact they fixed the alien hitboxes (They fortunetly upped Armor for fade and onos thanks Dev team, you own...) and Reduced HMG damage from 20 to 18... this upcoming patch is going to be shotgun rush heaven for all comms.
The new routine for a winning marine team would be:
Get shotguns, tell them to rush the hives constantly, upgrade lvl 1 armor then weapons till victory.
A skilled medspam comm will make rines SHRED higher lifeforms... imagine 2 catpacked LA rines ripping an onos down in mere seconds... or 3... god it will be SAD!
Fortunetly i thought up a counter stratigy for the aliens. MC first... it has to take Defense over as the main Alien chamber. We need silence and cerelity to take those Shottys down fast and hard. Maybe SC will work to if your team is a little organised. But for pubs with the usual amount of noobs, we need MC. Your gonna need lerk bite **** from 1.04 and alot of luck (spikes would be SOOOOOOO better... horrible timing). Spores is a 2nd slot weapon still i think, so all is not lost. 3 lerks should be able to spore a rine shotgun team into subission, but it will take time. the 2nd hive is gonna be the biggest thing... no more early fades... have one person save for onos and go straight for the 2nd hive. Your cerelity skulks love leap to get some limited flight capabilities... and silence leap-bite skulks are DEADLY, even WITH motion tracking (which will be used ALOT now because of the price decrease, and how awsome MT is with shotguns.). Get some onos, get Defense 2nd Unless your doing good with skulks and lerks (lerks are going to be used ALOT, even without spikes.... WHY WHY NOT SPIKES?!??!?)
Lerks are better then fades for the usual pub team ( i know fade fans will tear up shotties, i've done it myself <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ) because thier cheap, fast, long ranged very slightly (enough to want to be lerks), and supportive in nature. Lerks with cerelity skulks with make shotties die fast, especially with tons of spore spam... spore, everywhere on the level... make em die a slow death.
Well i figured that would work the best... keep moving fast and keep those shotties on the ground. Same can be done with SC, but MC is much better in a two hive lockdown situation. Marines are in for a field day no matter what stratigy you use though <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Edit: one good thing though... another way you could do it is MC, then SC... i am sure it would work just as good as Defense... all you have to do is keep those shotties on the ground, it will slow the team's development, and keep their RFK to a minimum.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what an enormous post, every one quote this one after another and see how big we can get it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
Give Gorges back the web at Hive 2. When it used to be like that, web showed great tactical importance in the game with webbing up marine rushes or putting web traps ahead of a lerk or wall of OCs. And Bio Bomb would still be very useful at Hive 3, so the new change would benefeit both attacks. Plus it makes the Welder just that much more of a useful tool, clearing out webed hallways and such.
Onos should get back Primal Scream, it makes absolute sense and should have never been taken away in the first place.
lol i dont have a big enough attention span to write anything... so all i do is quote, excerpt, link, make up simple topic thingies, etc.....
lol i havent even read all this yet.... and i dont read general disccusion, or whatever this topic is in..
1- spike
2- bite
3- umbra
4- spore
This way, umbra will still help out at hive two, and lerk will have both a ranged attack and a close one. Spore could be back to being pretty deadly, and a lerk will be good for each hive.
1- spike
2- bite
3- umbra
4- spore<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The thing with spore being at hive 3, is that if the marines don't have HA by then, then they are probably going to lose. So either your Spore is innefective against HA, or it's helping finish off a marine base that was doomed to die anyways. I'm not saying spore will be useless at hive 3, but I think it would be MUCH more useful earlier at Hive 2.
Spore used to be at hive 3 back around 1.04 IIRC, and it wasn't very important to the game. By the time you got it, Fades and Umbra were already finishing off the marines, or you had a group of Onos and fades moving in on their spawn, which at such a time would be better suited for umbra anyways.
Fades/Acid Rocket/Umbra used to be the Kharaa's equivalent to HA/HMG/GL/Welders, but now I don't think the Kharaa have anything strong enough to beat out an HA train anymore. Likewise, the marines don't start out with anything strong enough to counter Spore clouds from vents, which makes the outcome of each game very predictable. People can tell which team is going to win before the game is even halfway done.
I'm not saying the game is too imbalanced to be enjoyable or anything, I am just giving out my thoughts. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The fact is, marines have a *MUCH* easier time shooting stuff now... the hitboxes are perfect. Boy do I love them.
Also, skulk health is not 75/20, it's 70/20, meaning you take one less shot.
I heard that the deves unnerfed onos charge, any playtesters care to elaborate?
The Lerk is perfect as it is now. It is primarily a support alien (Umbra, Primal Scream, Spore), but it is also able to hold its own in combat (Bite), especially with the new flight system.
Focus is a great ability, but its 'one bite kill' effect is only really seen when a Level 3 Focus Skulk attacks a Level 0 armor marine. Level 1 armor easily counters this. Where focus really shines is versus Heavy Armors and Jetpackers. When a Skulk is fighting a jetpacker, they usually only have enough time to get one bite in before the jetpacker becomes out of range again. With Focus you can make this bite count. A Focus skulk rush is surprisingly effective against a HA train too...
I heard that the deves unnerfed onos charge, any playtesters care to elaborate? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the new flight system and lerk bites, lerk are a much better counter to JP than they were before. They are actually more manouverable than JP in my opinion, and are excellent at ramming JP and biting them, which of course knocks them around and makes flying difficult. At the moment, JP isn't used as much as it used to be in the games I've seen, due to the high effectiveness of lerks bites.
Bite > JP
Bite + Spore > LA
HA > Lerk, as always. That's what onos are for.
They increased onos charge damage fairly substantially. It's still not as frightening as I've heard it was back in the 1.x days, but it's better. You can actually kill things with it sometimes. It's up to 320 damage per second of contact. (Leap also got boosted, up to 80 per second of contact)
does that mean that when you are charging into a base that if you are running agiant something for 1 second it does 320 damage, then on top of that you can still gore the target right?