Common Causes Of Res Hoarding...
Rhuadin
Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17023Members
Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17023Members
<div class="IPBDescription">And why it's awesome for me</div> Let's take another look at the phenomenon of alien res hoarding. I believe the best way to get to the core of this is to look at the alien players, since it's obviously not a game mechanic that affects res hoarding.
1) The leet: The leet has a god given right to hoard res. Basically, it's because he earned his res, gosh darnit -- he killed those 5 HA/HMGs by himself as a skulk. And besides, no one makes a better investment of 50 res than him as a fade, so obviously he should be the one fading.
2) The noob: The noob has a god given right to hoard res. Basically, it's because he can't get any kills, so he has WAY less res than everybody else! If he has the least res, why should he be the one to have to spend it on stuff for the team?
3) The usual gorge: The usual gorge has a god given right to hoard res. He dropped all 3 hives, all 9 RTs, and all 9 upgrade chambers last game. Someone else seriously should do it this game.
And there you have it, categories that cover the vast majority of alien players. And as you can see, they all have their own rights to hoard res. On finer precision though, I've found that they are more likely to hoard res in the order given. The usual gorge will eventually break and drop stuff even though he did it for the last 4 games. It's easy to convince noobs that their res is better spent on structures, once they die several times as fade. But leets answer to no one. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Therefore, ironically enough, I've seen entire teams of leets lose due to none of their willingness to drop even an RT at the beginning of the game. This happens far more than one would think.
So why is this awesome for me? Simple -- I command marines, and it's gotten really easy -- ridiculously so -- to win games now. And I don't play on newbie servers either; I play on servers like lunixmonster and HK. Basically what all of the above means is: If I'm playing against skillful players, I don't have to worry about fades/onos because it'll take them forever to get them. If I'm playing against noobs/usual gorges, then I can easily take down the RTs because they're not skillful enough to protect them. Either way, it's ridiculously easy to win.
In conclusion, keep up the good work. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
(And discuss, seriously, how we can stem this phenomenon in the future, because winning's getting boring <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Cheers,
Rhuadin
1) The leet: The leet has a god given right to hoard res. Basically, it's because he earned his res, gosh darnit -- he killed those 5 HA/HMGs by himself as a skulk. And besides, no one makes a better investment of 50 res than him as a fade, so obviously he should be the one fading.
2) The noob: The noob has a god given right to hoard res. Basically, it's because he can't get any kills, so he has WAY less res than everybody else! If he has the least res, why should he be the one to have to spend it on stuff for the team?
3) The usual gorge: The usual gorge has a god given right to hoard res. He dropped all 3 hives, all 9 RTs, and all 9 upgrade chambers last game. Someone else seriously should do it this game.
And there you have it, categories that cover the vast majority of alien players. And as you can see, they all have their own rights to hoard res. On finer precision though, I've found that they are more likely to hoard res in the order given. The usual gorge will eventually break and drop stuff even though he did it for the last 4 games. It's easy to convince noobs that their res is better spent on structures, once they die several times as fade. But leets answer to no one. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Therefore, ironically enough, I've seen entire teams of leets lose due to none of their willingness to drop even an RT at the beginning of the game. This happens far more than one would think.
So why is this awesome for me? Simple -- I command marines, and it's gotten really easy -- ridiculously so -- to win games now. And I don't play on newbie servers either; I play on servers like lunixmonster and HK. Basically what all of the above means is: If I'm playing against skillful players, I don't have to worry about fades/onos because it'll take them forever to get them. If I'm playing against noobs/usual gorges, then I can easily take down the RTs because they're not skillful enough to protect them. Either way, it's ridiculously easy to win.
In conclusion, keep up the good work. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
(And discuss, seriously, how we can stem this phenomenon in the future, because winning's getting boring <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Cheers,
Rhuadin
Comments
The pro who goes gorge and builds as fast as he can rt stays as long gorg as he can pherhaps he gets an dc up, helps skulks a the front healing them, marines kill his rt and a 2nd one, aliens left with 1 rt after 8mins on a PRO SERVER with 10 aliens,-->
deciding to never ever drop something more vor his pro-noob team, just killing more than 6 marine rts and gets a ban cause of res hoarding
and its good to have one person not build anything to save up for an early hive.
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This is sadly true <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
The only times i see marines lose these days, is with either useless comm, or useless marines.
Im not saying its a balance thing, theres just not enough in the aliens play structure that really encourages them to work together, not res hoard etc.
I mean why should it be down to a couple of selfless aliens to put all thier res for the team everygame? it shouldnt, there needs to be a change in the system.
I know aliens are meant to be different from marines in the fact thay are more individualistic/deathmatch orientated, but since the game is "balanced", they really cant win like this.
Acutally hive one mc as a fade or lerk isn't half bad. Good players rarely dies with fades and it doesnt matter if you have dc or mc because the point of fades is to hit and run. Lerks would be awesome with silence. Couple that with a high speed flying lerk bite it'll be just the same as fades but less health.
And it gets rid of idiot players from the server, as they tend to f4 rather quickly when they're losing.
And thus get kicked from Lunixmonster. Which always makes me smile.
That made me laugh. But then I wanted to cry because it's so true. Res hoarding is one of those things where you just have to hope that everything works out in the end because trying to coordinate something is damn near impossible. In a perfect world 3 or 4 players would cap rts, 1 would build dcs, 1 would save for hive, the rest would save for fade. In reality marines get a stupidly easy win because aliens ony built 1 rt and no dcs.
And thats why playing on so called "experienced" servers sucks for aliens. Everyone is so "leet" that they save for fade right away and nothing gets built and the marines dominate.
And thats why you should always thank your gorges after a win, without them you lose.
So... does that mean my post is the best this week? Or the best forever? Or the best 'post of the week' ever? Or... *head explodes*
I like the MC solution to res hoarding, though. I guess I should try that sometime -- when aliens are hoarding and no one drops anything, I can drop MCs <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> And when they say, 'Why didn't you drop DCs?' I can say, 'No, the question is, why didn't YOU drop DCs?'
Rhuadin
" THIS TEAM HAS 30 SECONDS TO GORGE OR YOUR GETTING SC"
Aliens are going to be on the losing side for a while I fear. Oh well. It was a rediculously long run where we had a slight advantage on pubs, despite poor play. Now it's the opposite. I don't mind.
LOL!!! i HAVE to try this!
LOL!!! i HAVE to try this! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tried something like that once and they turned on team killing. *cries*
I'm actually a pretty powerful skulk, fade, and lerk (I can play pretty much anything but Onos); however I am ALWAYS the one to save for hive. I always scream out in the beginning, "I'm saving for hive, 1-2 guys get RTs, everyone else rush for RFK"
The l337 player does indeed have a given right to be fade - of course, the question is how many fades are needed. I'd rather have 2 hives and 3 Fades instead of 4 Fades and 1 Hive, hmm? It's the true players of NS who go for the strategic side that will decide to make the sacrifice.
The usual gorge - the one who usually drops the RTs or DCs/MCs in the beginning. Doesn't really think strategically usually, simply think based on necessity. Usually stays permanent Gorge and waits for several minutes to build just one more OC.
The n00b gorge - wastes resources to put OCs in horrible places and you would wish he was just hoarding res so you could use him as a bullet-shield fopr the 30 seconds he's alive when he's an Onos.
The pro gorge - knows when and when to not stay as Gorge or go skulk and start getting more RFK. Reasons which is priority: securing an area, dropping an RT, making an upgrade chamber, or getting a hive.
So you see - The usual gorge usually doesn't hoard at all.
The n00b gorge should be hoarding.
The pro Gorge usually will switch between hoarding and not hoarding depending on the situation.
I usually go gorge right off at first, drop a nearby RT, then skulk again for RFK and go lerk. This is if others on the team dropped some RT's too.
I swear there have been to many times to count when the only 2 res towers that get dropped are the ones I dropped. Even on a 10 person khaara team when it's taking 5 minutes to get 1 res point, myself and one other person will have dropped towers and one or both of them is destroyed. Yet NO ONE DROPS ANYTHING. I MEAN NOTHING. Eventually in the middle of an HA seige of our only hive 3 or 4 idiots will go fade, and of course die immediately under the HMG/shotty fire. And some other idiot will get onos and die before killing even one marine.
If this was an abnormality I wouldn't care, but it's every other game (or more). I personally love gorging, the little **** are fun to play, and knowing you are helping the team pwn is so worth it. So why does everyone hate going gorge? Is getting killed immediately after saving for 20 minutes that much fun?
NOTE: I make an exception for the occasional (and by occasional I mean extremely rare) player who will ask at the beginning of the match "listen guys, im a sup4r good fade, can i save for it? i probably won't die for the rest of the game if i go fade" and I'll be like "sure!". However, people so rarely ask, and so often suck, that this rarely ever happens.
1) Bling, bling, bling, round starts, head off to 'rine spawn and bite some marines, rinse and repeat.
2) 50 res, put down hive, go back to skulk.
3) Go bite some more marines.
4) 50 res go fade.
I cant even remember the last time I went Onos, I hate them.
I suck at Fade, and I can't play as Onos because by the time I get the res, the games virtually over, or the marines are so entrenched that I'd die before I gore anything, further adding to my embarrasment.
So I just reswhore for hive. I figure I might as well give the teammates more chances then taking the chance myself.
I think I'll take that Gorge Spray. Have you hugged a Gorge today?
that buys them a sc if I'm gorge and they get too abusive
We were getting our **** kicked, and one of the leets was like, 'MAYBE SOMEONE SHOULD DORP DCS NOW HUH? ANYONE EVER THINK OF THAT!!!!11!' so rudely and obnoxiously, and so I said, 'Well, why don't you drop DCs?'
To this he replied, 'Well, since you guys suck and can't aim worth **** you might as well use your res so I don't have to.'
Now that's a good way to get team support -- demand something, and then insult your entire team because, obviously nobody else but *you* can kill marines worth a can of beans.
Then shortly afterwards he went fade and then quit the game like a minute after that because he had a clan scrim. Why? Why?
Rhuadin
I usually go gorge right off at first, drop a nearby RT, then skulk again for RFK and go lerk. This is if others on the team dropped some RT's too.
I swear there have been to many times to count when the only 2 res towers that get dropped are the ones I dropped. Even on a 10 person khaara team when it's taking 5 minutes to get 1 res point, myself and one other person will have dropped towers and one or both of them is destroyed. Yet NO ONE DROPS ANYTHING. I MEAN NOTHING. Eventually in the middle of an HA seige of our only hive 3 or 4 idiots will go fade, and of course die immediately under the HMG/shotty fire. And some other idiot will get onos and die before killing even one marine.
If this was an abnormality I wouldn't care, but it's every other game (or more). I personally love gorging, the little **** are fun to play, and knowing you are helping the team pwn is so worth it. So why does everyone hate going gorge? Is getting killed immediately after saving for 20 minutes that much fun?
NOTE: I make an exception for the occasional (and by occasional I mean extremely rare) player who will ask at the beginning of the match "listen guys, im a sup4r good fade, can i save for it? i probably won't die for the rest of the game if i go fade" and I'll be like "sure!". However, people so rarely ask, and so often suck, that this rarely ever happens. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed. I like to be informed if anyone is saving, and I will let people know when I save.
Too much savings=bad.
Res overflow is back in, so that onos with 100 res will just be feeding all his extra res to the hungry gorges, if everybody has 100 res, then it all builds up in a pool to be given out the instant somebody joins or some res is spent!
Also, focus owns so much that it wont really matter which chamber you plop down first.
Lastly, and probably the most importantly, is the new score system. It's a hell of a lot easier to build one res tower than it is to kill 3 marines. The "usual gorge" who builds 3 hives, 9 rts & 9 upgrade chambers in a game is going to have a score of atleast 45, plus 2 more points for every OC he builds, and possibly 5 for each of the hives too...
Whatever way you look at it, he's going to be at the top of the scoreboard, because Mr Leet will only have atmost 20-30 kills, and even as Mr Leet starts desparately hunting marine buildings to pad his score higher than yours, you can simply whip out your bile bomb and take down multiple buildings faster than he ever could (or even worse, you could follow him around, and keep getting the last hit on the buildings he munches away, giving you all the points for it).
A good team needs "leets" too. You're team won't win games unless it can actually kill people. That is the sheer beauty that it NS. There are roles to be played for many kinds of player.
Ofcourse once you gain some experience your scope broadens considerably and players such as yourself start showing up, however before people come to know and love the game that well they need something to tell them that they are on the right track.
A good team needs "leets" too. You're team won't win games unless it can actually kill people. That is the sheer beauty that it NS. There are roles to be played for many kinds of player. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
seconded.
if my score is 20, no one will care, cos i was probly fade or onos anyways, when i put dc hive or umbra lerk i always get a "thx buggy" which is more satisfying for me
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Ive got to remember that one. Thats good. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yea with Aliens and res **** its VERY easy to get the "noobish" ones to not res ****. Build MCs first and make sure everyone knows you got MCs first. Then when they whine about it and say they're gonna lose just tell them to just try out silence. "Just try it you wuss. Prove me wrong." 8 times out of 10 (about. Not good with fractions) the usual res **** (the nub ones) will work hard to get a 2nd hive up fast or get rts to defend it and will try silience and say things liike "OMG SILENCE PWNS!!!".
You should try it some time. Im amazed it works as much as it does. And that "OMG SILENCE PWNS!!!" ive heard that almost exact thing from 7 players in the last 5 days on pubs when I do this. Now this isnt garunteed as sometimes they are dumb enough to still reshoard for Onos and then die in 3 seconds blamign the loss on you building that chamber when you had a hive clear and they could have put it up. But its the only way Ive gotten people to not res hoard. Building SCs either gets a bunch of F4ers or res hoarders who know how fun Cloak is usually and DCs = res hoarders. Every time.
Anyways more and more I just say at the start of the game "when I get 40 res Im gettin what ever chamber I want, and if someone gets chambers before then I'll get the hive". Every time Ive said that except once (I think 16 games now...) 2 or 3 people gorge just to drop chambers (3 less res hoarders IMO, as long as you built 1 thing or gorged once you arent res hoarding in my book) and in like 6 games someone else decided to put up the hive for me and so I got to keep my res without being called a res hoarder.
Too bad the only way to fix res hoarding is to make the Alien economy work like in 1.04.
-Red
people getting BANED for res hoarding? when did this start happening?!1111
no seriously tho, if some foolish *** idiot yells "yoyo, stop res hoarding and drop a hive" ... i just reply "**** you idiot! why don't you drop the stupid hive?" i mean its your **** res ... YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPEND IT HOW YOU LIKE! Since alien res is not team shared res like marines, it is personal res, and personal means YOU!
if you want to go fade instead of dropping a hive, then that's awesome!
consider this: hey, at least if you lose because marines had a 1-2 hive lockdown and no one wanted to build a hive and/or drop upgrade chambers or oc's or rts, at least no one can blame you alone, since everyone else was a "n-00-b" res hoarder.
its their freaking res and they worked hard to earn it (either that or they waited a whole ****load of time to attain the 50 to 100 res) ... why should they HAVE to drop 3 dc's and a rt or a hive instead of going fade or onos.
when some stupid n00btard admin with an inferiority complex does something that LAME to me (like slay me when i go lerk or fade instead of dropping an rt or two), i usually do something even lamer ... like dropping sc's, mc's, then DC's last (IF we ever get the third hive) or i block off an entire hallway consisting of nothing but upgrade chambers and oc's so that even skulks can't get thru.