Onii Overpowered?



  • mrfranswamrfranswa Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19091Members
    I needa agree. I've played bolth and seen bolth sides of the arguement.

    The onos is a GREAT late game attacker. In the hands of a good player, he is really great. however, he simply isn't as tough as anyone may think. The greatest threat to an onos is the shotgun wielding marine. I know I say this a lot, but I can name many times when I saw an early onos rush go sour. They come into base, damage some crap, then uh'oh! I'm weak and they run. Me chasing afterwards with my shotgun turns them into bactaburger. mmm! Yummy!

    Taking out onos's is best done with either the shotgun, HMG, or Grenade Launcher if you can deadeye them correctly. At very worst, pull out your pistols, and deal as much damage to them as quickly as possible.

    As for good onii players? they tend to get cloaking, redemption, and whatever else they like, then sit there waiting for you. Then as soon as you step by STOMP CHOMP! I know, because that's what I do <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->. In this tactic, they will generally be in a place standing still. If you know an onos was doing that before, GENERALLY they will be in the same place. The biggest downfall of the onos is definately the distance gap. Get some space, and he is a wussie.

    The best tactic is to get above him. Get on a ladder, and just turn him into hamburger. If they are idiots, they may chase after you, but if I saw someone with a hmg on top of a ladder, I'd hafeta be very drunk to try and take him out.
  • Kid-AKid-A Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
    bon_Homme as you say the JP squad would probably dissipate on a pub, but assuming it doesn't the lerk can spore/spike the JP's easily while the onos distracts them.

    Of course the spore counter is HA, and then we are back where we started. Notice how just two khaara species are the counter to two seperate (and expensive) marine options.

    Shotguns are the early onos counter, but if you want to continue to expand while onii are about you'll be spending 50 res initially and about 10 res a minute to keep people supplied. During this time EVERY rt that does not have PG + serious TF protection will be taken down by the onos.

    And SilverSurfie please don't advocate other traits, it hard enough with redemo onos.
  • bon_Hommebon_Homme Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17543Members
    What about the whole objective res argument Kid-A? I was just using that strat as an argument against talking specific counters. Generally speaking an onos is freaking expensive, while the tech required to take one down, isn't.
  • Kid-AKid-A Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
    My point is though, marines need to spend res on an Onos counter which will also need the co-operation of at least half the marine side. This leaves the rest of the aliens to pick holes in whatever stratergies you have used.

    I think my point is an onos <i>per se</i> isn't overpowered but in the context of the alien team they are too good. Which is probably just a complaint that aliens are overpowered.
  • MrKNifeyMrKNifey Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17668Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Keyser59+Aug 13 2003, 03:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Keyser59 @ Aug 13 2003, 03:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think the onos is overpowered, they just come too early in the game for a marine to effectively deal with them. That's the biggest problem with 2.0 IMHO, that aliens are teching exponentially faster than marines are. One HMG can deal with an onos, more than that can kill/redeem an onos. Otherwise I think onos are pretty balanced compared to late game marines.

    I'd have to disagree with jetpacks, depending on alien teamwork and on the map. If onos are running around alone, then by all means use a jetpack. But that generally is not the case, as you will have multiple lerks and gorges and such backing him up most of the time. You can <b>not</b> JP an onos with a few players supporting him. And some maps aren't so "tolerable" for JPs. Bast is the exception, but many maps have very low ceilings where JPs have a very hard time maneuvering around an onos enough to kill him. I think I might have researched jetpacks a total of 3 times in 2.0. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
  • relsanrelsan Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3720Members, Constellation
    One could say its lame that a onos can devour a HA/HMG, redempt back to a hive and repeat. But I think its just as lame that marines can completely wipe out an area with siege. I applaud the ns team for balancing out the siege with devour and bile bomb for gorges.
  • Trojan2Trojan2 Join Date: 2003-01-14 Member: 12290Members
    Cry me a river already. Christ learn to play. Aginst good Mariens an onos or two doesnt normally make a differnce. If the aleins can get 5 oni to slame into your team at once with support they compleatly deserve to win as they exicuted a skilled team assult.
  • n4s7yn4s7y Join Date: 2003-04-18 Member: 15627Members
    edited August 2003
    What's with this "I once knifed an onus, omg its easy to kill onus, you just have to have good marines."

    Well folks, I don't know if you've been paying attention rrecently, but the NS community seems to have recently recieved a freak shipment of newbies! We don't HAVE good marines! Believe it or not, most people do not play on the elite CoFR servers and have no idea what a good marine team is! A halfway decent onus could absolutely p w n an entire HA squad. I for one am sick of people pulling up rare or unusual circumstances or situations in order to back up their view.

    Like it or not, the onus is not balanced, or even NS in general is not balanced. Balance does not mean "if you have a squad of the most "elite" players ever created it should be balanced," it means any general pub game should have a 50:50 chance of winning. This simply is not happening.

    And shutup already, it's onus.

    [just an afterthought, perhaps I'm wrong. I haven't played 2.01a, b, or c yet]
  • XCanXCan Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5904Members, Constellation
    Well if you think about it and you have some ultra elites as the previous poster stated. Marines will ALWAYS win since they have ranged weapons at the very beginning. And I believe ultra elites consists of nearly never miss marines.
  • KobayashiKobayashi Join Date: 2003-07-05 Member: 17956Members
    That's the heart of the problem isn't it? 1 good alien player owns many bad marines, and it there's a good marine, he's rendered useless by the fact that teamwork is required more on the marine side. Marines get exponentially stronger if they group up and co-operate, but that doesn't happen on the pubs, (maybe you'll get 2-3 players that know what they're doing, I try to use those players to the fullest)

    Another problem is that marines (And commanders) still think in 1.04 mode, only without the hives. They still think that expansion and rt capping/defending isn't that important, but now that they know hives won't stop onos or fades. They cap like 3 rts, and then sit there or rambo while the com upgrades stuff. There's this thing people have, where marines don't attack unless they have JP or HA. Unfortuately, this usually leads to teh aliens having a resource advantage, and getting onos before teh marines have upgraded anything meaningful.

    and for those of you who say onos suck and onos are easy to kill. You haven't faced good onos before have you? the ones who make good use of every ability, not just the stupid devour redeem, which does nothing (YAY! they killed ONE marine!) Have you ever seen charge used? it runs through a squad of HA like butter. ANn the fact that with celerity and charge an onos moves unbeleivably fast, so reaction time is like half a second, then he runs through like 3 of you in another 2 seconds, then runs off for healing. The only counter I know is to take that damn hive and prevent this ability.

    For the pubs, you just better hope you have a good commander who knows what he needs to do. NS wasn't meant as a fragfest or the like, it was meant as a team game, which is why it will never be balanced for the pubs.
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Kid-A+Aug 11 2003, 09:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kid-A @ Aug 11 2003, 09:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    Whenever I comm onii are the bane of my exisitence. Whether it be one early game onos or a pack of late game onii, there seems to be no possible counter.
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    The counter is the SHOT GUN, HMG, or GL

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    Then it becomes evident most the aliens were waiting for onos and they proceeded to <b>demolish</b> ALL the bases. This wasn't a pansy TF+ 4 turrets it was 2 TF's, ~15 turrets, 5 seiges, 2 PG's. But with 2-3 onos it went down in no time. All the guards got eaten so taken out the loop for ages, the rest got stomped and gored. They had shotguns + upgrades and the odd GL/HMG. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    When you had that gap, where you say the Aliens were waiting to go Onos, you should have been walking to a Hive and Blowing it to dust!
    The reason your base was smoked was you spent 150 res on turrets you could have researched level 3 Guns with that and that would have made the Onoi go down alot faster. Your failing was in that you relyed on Turrets to protect you. All they do is delay an attack, what you should have done was put all the res into eairly research and you could have out classed the Kharaa from the get go! Plus, you might have had More GLs, SGs and HMGs, a few Jet Packs and everyone in but the JPers in HA, this would have saved you alot more res in the long run. You let them get too strong, you should have brought them the fight to their Hive!

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Early onii are just as bad, they can take down smaller bases faster than you can blink and your marines have to be extremely lucky and the onos pretty dumb for it to be taken down. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not true, for 40 res you could have given out 4 SGs and no ONOS can live with 4 SGs taking him on.
    Don't build a ton of turrets, save for Armor, Guns and Wep upgrades.
    Change your playing style and I bet you will be making that Onoi think twice before attacking.
  • 11alex11alex Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14190Members
    Onos are no problem for me usually. When the aliens get a few onii running around, if I haven't quite gotten to the point where I am getting an HA train together, I am at least close - and holding off an onos or two with marines in areas with turrets is really no problem at all, what with them being weaker than in 1.04. Then, HA train pwns however many onii the alien team can come up with :o
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    "they just come too early in the game for a marine to effectively deal with them."

    Shotguns are available pretty much from game start, and deal with onos very effectively. In fact they solve most early game problems.

    If the team can't use shotguns then sadly IMHO thats the team's fault, neither the Onos or NS is to blame.
  • kittycatkittycat Join Date: 2003-07-28 Member: 18503Members
    edited August 2003
    Marines vs Onos = caveman hunting mammoth

    get it?

    btw 2 marines with HMG and 4 sentries can kill/scare off 2 Onos better than 5 LMG marines with 15 sentries. Just give your marines better weapons and a something to cover
    <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • NicatorNicator Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10829Members
    Onos slaughter groups of HA marines. Just wait around a corner for the group of marines to come round, and stomp. Preferably set yourself up in an area where there's another corner you can retreat behind, and you=win.
  • HuntyHunty Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19244Members
    From my experimentations,i think onos will redempt at maybe 3 close ranged(nearly pointblank) shotgun blasts,with full level 3 weapons.

    The problem is that the marines with shotguns will not be in that kind of CQB situation.The onos will most likely be spotted running at them from at least 5 meters away.This then results in the onos being damaged before it can get to melee range.This also results in the very first shotgun blast at that range to redemping it most of the time.I dont know about you but on the pubs i play on the average team does NOT manage to synchronzie their shotgun blasts to happen at the exact time in short range.Things like "Okay guys wait for close range..wait for it......FIRE" and 4 shotgun blasts go off in its face and it dies instantly,this,i do not see on pub servers.Marines i see fire consecutively,not simultenously.Result?Onos redempts.

    Redempt works on the principle that the more damage you take,the higher chance of redemping.....so the only sure fire way to kill a onos with such a high hp/armor count is to damage it to a certain extent,where it will not redempt,such as medium yellow bar,then hit it with a couple of shotgun/nade blasts that go off at once.Pulling this off is incredibly tricky.

    6 ha/shotties vs one onos in hera today.Onos redempt.I would guess that about half the HAs were slow in firing by a couple of milliseconds,by the time they fired,the buckshot was hitting the walls because the other 3 HAs had caused enough damage to redempt the onos.

    And theres the stomp + digest + run away with celerity issue that will unfornately not be addresed in 2.0.

    P.S.Relsan seiges are about as lame as the equavelent of 8 turrets that need to be taken down individually,are cheap,can be auto-healed and cloaked.
  • Jigga_what1Jigga_what1 Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19773Members
    I agree with almost everyone on this post in some way.

    <b>Onos are overpowered, its a fact</b>: And <i>they should be</i>, they cost 100 res! Aliens need a heavy lifeform to combat marines with hmg/jp/ha.

    <b>Early Onos rushes</b>: I dont understand how there could be a <i>early</i> onos rush... 100 res, it doesnt just appear magically, you have to remember that the alien team splits up resources evenly... it takes a while to get to 100. I would assume that marines would fire at a res nod to check for res towers...

    Also, if there is an early <i>onos</i> rush then they probably should have at max one useful upgrade. Seeing as most people put up sensory chambers first, the upgrades in that section arent nearly as useful as others. Marines should have locked down at least one hive by the time onos appear. The onos are good, but not great, until they have their upgrades. And if aliens have 3 hives, then they woulnd need onos to win, they are basically rocking the marine team already.
  • Jigga_what1Jigga_what1 Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19773Members
    And secondly people, stop whining, im copying a post of mine that is in another thread... so here it is.

    Wait, I got one for eveyone, stop whining and play the game, then make some suggestions.

    ?Heres one, make it so that you need 2 hives to evolve into an onos.?

    They only problem I see with the above suggestion is that aliens probably already have 2 hives by the time they get 100 res.

    ?So once again, another suggestion is that the ns team would put the
    resource cap at 50 with one hive, then 100 with two or more?

    Start playing for fun and giving people some good comments, like 'nice shot'. I listen to comms that dont spam about losing or how bad his team sucks. Sure, there are going to be some words from the comm like 'get your butts to the infantry portal, its going down fast, stop armory humping!'. But when the smoke clears hopefully the comm will respond positevely, even if the outpost is gone.

    Have some fun when your getting destroyed, drop a jetpack to one of the better marine players on your team, and have him go build a comm chair and infantry portal in some obscure vent or place.

    Each update has its unbalances. Maybe the marine players are finally facing the fact that losing does happen. Maybe its time that the marine team wasnt better!
  • VragnorVragnor Join Date: 2003-07-22 Member: 18359Members
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Huntsman+Aug 12 2003, 03:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Huntsman @ Aug 12 2003, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have also heard that putting five mines in the same spot (stacking one on top of the other) will kill an onos instantly.  I haven't really seen mines used, so I can't confirm or deny that this works.  10 resources to instantly kill a 100 resource creature stepping in the wrong spot sounds like a good deal to me. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    heh. i wish. i did that once...killed 4 ha but not the onos...since we were guarding base there were no turrets...game over...

    I wish people would realize that mines in base = more dead rines than aliens..they okay for hives/unoccupied outposts...but not bases where rines are...
  • HuntyHunty Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19244Members
    Ive seen onos in about 10 minutes when we were constantly owning their RTs and had about 5 ourselves.That was with DC.Sent whole team in ha/shotties to seige the hive.Held themselves up pretty well till the onos came along.Would just run in,digest,WHACK WHACK WHACK redempt,rinse and repeat...then they got stomp.....everything gone.
  • Kid-AKid-A Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
    Err if you needed 2 hives for onos then how would you break 2 hive locks easily?

    I understand why they are 'neccesary' but they really are nasty. On a random pub server I can wait for onos and then win the game. Seriously as an onos you can easily take out ANY outpost that doesn't 3+ marine on defense.
  • TaiDaisharTaiDaishar Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19417Members
    A 2 hive lock down is very hard to accomplish, let alone defend because in the average game a 2nd hive is up in around 7-10 minutes of the game starting and to make a 2 hive lock down means you won't be able to get enough res to upgrade weapons/armors and defend the hives well resulting in the aliens getting almost all of the nodes, getting onos and then owning your arse when you try to defend 2 locations with a level 0-1 weapon/armor LA marines with 3 PGs that most likely will NOT teleport you to the place under attack (I once teleported more than 7 times between 2 PGs when there was a 3rd PG I wanted to go to...).

    Also a fundemental flaw of NS 2.0 is that equal amounts of teamwork on both teams result in the aliens always winning.

    1 onos = 1 army.

    1 marine= 1 dead marine.

    5 marines = 1 army.

    4 aliens = 4 armies.

    Anyone see a problem in here? Cause I certeinly do, I've heard about clan games being always won by aliens and a marine win in clan games is simply non existant...

    So you may try and get a good counter against an onos and then the aliens could easily counter that counter and add more fire power to the original onos and then you're pretty screwed...
  • NecrosisNecrosis The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
    If you see early onos, it means one of a few things.

    A) The alien is a hoarder, so alien chambers will be thin on the ground.
    B) Your team sucks and res for kills made this alien god.
    C) He's a very good alien player.

    If its A, then no problems. He dies, he hoards for another year, he comes back. If B, get a better team. If C, hope he's the only one.

    Shottys are up from game start, and DESTROY onii. If you're spread out (gasp!) then he can't stomp you all. In a group of three, thats three shots. He stomps. You get two shots. He devours. You get two shots. He stomps, you get one shot. Then he runs, redeems or more often than not dies.

    The trick to bagging yourself an Onos is not running around blind corners in groups of one. If you bunny a corner and shoot, he'll show up, and while he's going at you your two friends are pumping rounds in.

    If there are more than one, then quite wisely its time to fall back. That said, if there's more than one onos that early in the game, you're going to have problems. And as comm sadly there's not much you can do if your team is outclassed by better players.

    By the time you're midgame, one person per group has HMG or GL. The shotty hops the corner first, maybe gets a shot in. Shotty two has a pop if the Onos comes forward, and when he's forward the HMG or GL opens up.

    Sadly most Onoskilling strats involve cool heads and good teamwork.
  • The_FinchThe_Finch Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8498Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Kid-A+Aug 16 2003, 05:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kid-A @ Aug 16 2003, 05:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I understand why they are 'neccesary' but they really are nasty. On a random pub server I can wait for onos and then win the game. Seriously as an onos you can easily take out ANY outpost that doesn't 3+ marine on defense. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Automated defenses are for the most part, speedbumps. Depending on turrets to stop Onos is about as effective as OC walls stoping HA. Onos are base breakers. Turrets, even a dozen of them, don't stop them. Just as HA, left unchecked, will destroy the OCs. Given time, a single person can break down an outpost if left to their own devices, even as a vanilla marine or skulk/gorge. Automated defenses supplement players. They slow people down so marines/aliens can get there. There have been numerous times I've been chomping on turrets to get to the phase gate, and nobody is coming.

    A turret and a shotgun cost the same amount of resources. If comms were as liberal with shotties as they were with turrets, I think you'd see marines having an easier time early on.
  • MrKNifeyMrKNifey Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17668Members
    One time, my team killed a redemption onos with nothing but LMGs and some turrets. All we did was concentrate our fire and that large cow died. He didn't even redeem and die at the hive.
  • eagleceaglec Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9948Members, Constellation
    an onos is 100 res, at 1 hive they can devour or bite. Thats it. So if 3 marines stay behind a wall of 4 turrets and concentrate lmg fire the onos dies. Why did you have 2 PG's. From the descripton at the start of the post Kid-a I think you fell victim to an old<span style='color:red'> <b>exploit</b>. </span>It was rumoured that the arrival of 2.0 had erradicated it but it seems to be rearing its head again. This exploit is called 'teamwork' and is similar to godmode when used by skilled players.
  • MrKNifeyMrKNifey Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17668Members
    Yes. Best exploit EVAR!
  • VigilantiaVigilantia Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 51Members
    true, its a good exploit, only problem is in normal pub servers, you hardly ever see it. That is unless ur clanners. Even then, you could have problems, because 4 marines staying at base = 4 marines not capping res/assualting aliens, meaning the aliens already have made their goal in llocking down the marines in their base.
  • Jigga_what1Jigga_what1 Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19773Members
    If 4 marines are at a base, that probably means you are going to lose anyway. The only time I see 4 marines at a base is when the aliens destroyed us, and we are just doing a last stand.

    There should be one marine at base, guarding against those random skulks and unwanted critters. If the marine cant handle it, he calls his homies for backup.

    There is this thing for the marines besides teamwork that is just plain awesome.

    PHASE GATES. You can't get much better than this guys. Instant teleporting... You can defend anywhere easily..

    Phase gates are one of the best buildings for marines. Drop em at strategic locations... You want to siege a alien infestation? Have a guy with a jetpack fly to a location near it, drop a phase gate, have him build it, and the aliens wont be able to respond fast enough. Swarm of marines come through and build things soooo fast.

    If you dont like onos, grab a jetpack and a hmg or shottie. Onos have melee attacks only. You will win if you dont make a stupid mistake.

    and finally, more of a joke
    <i>Aliens</i> have <b>onos</b>... <i>Marines</i> have <b>phase gates</b>.
  • QuaunautQuaunaut The longest seven days in history... Join Date: 2003-03-21 Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    No nubs will be satisfied until they can get a Onos with 1 clip of their LMG...
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