Pistol Damage Vs. Lmg Damage...

JohnnySmashJohnnySmash Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18870Members
edited August 2003 in NS General Discussion
(edit: matched them up with their correct values, although the pistol's rating is still 10 higher than the LMG's)

In the LMG description it says damage: 10. In the pistol description it says damage: 20.

Whaa???

It can't be per-bullet. Then unloading a clip of an LMG would deal 500 damage. Last time I checked I can't kill an Onos with one LMG clip. (Edit: I forgot to factor in armor- but then the Onos should be almost dead or redeemed after one clip. And we all know one clip from an LMG isn't gonna do that.)

It can't be an overall damage rating, since then it would be saying the pistol does damage faster. This obviously isn't the case. So why does it say 10 damage for the LMG and 20 for the Pistol?

-JohnnySmash

Comments

  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    10 DMG per bullet (10 bullets per second) with the LMG
    20 DMG with the pistol
    and 30 DMG with the knife
  • JRPereiraJRPereira Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4778Members
    I thought the base damage on the pistol was 18 points per shot. Hmm...
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
  • JRPereiraJRPereira Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4778Members
    You gotta remember though, that for a while, autohelp used to tell you to hold your duck key to cling to walls and ceilings.
  • JohnnySmashJohnnySmash Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18870Members
    Can somebody tell me? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->

    -JohnnySmash
  • ReiksReiks Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19371Members
    Maybe somewhere along the line your calculations went a little haywire? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MagiTekMagiTek Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5057Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--JRPereira+Aug 9 2003, 11:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JRPereira @ Aug 9 2003, 11:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I thought the base damage on the pistol was 18 points per shot. Hmm... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The HMG used to do 18 damage per shot. They increased it to 20 in version 2.0 so that that it wouldn't be weaker than the LMG against buildings (since it does half damage against structures).
  • ShadowicsShadowics Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7652Members
    The damages are per-bullet. Yes, a single Pistol Shot does more damage than a single LMG shot. And if you think that doesn't make much sense remember that getting slashed once with a knife does as much damage as being shot by both of them.

    If you stop to think about the marines weapons in terms of damage and clip sizes and damage per clip, they will seem to be over-powered. That's for the simple reason that they are overpowered. Marines weapons do ridiculus amounts of damage compared to aliens. The calculations are correct.
  • JohnnySmashJohnnySmash Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18870Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Shadowics+Aug 10 2003, 05:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shadowics @ Aug 10 2003, 05:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The damages are per-bullet. Yes, a single Pistol Shot does more damage than a single LMG shot. And if you think that doesn't make much sense remember that getting slashed once with a knife does as much damage as being shot by both of them.

    If you stop to think about the marines weapons in terms of damage and clip sizes and damage per clip, they will seem to be over-powered. That's for the simple reason that they are overpowered. Marines weapons do ridiculus amounts of damage compared to aliens. The calculations are correct. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, Marines aren't overpowered first of all <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> ... By your logic the Skulk should be really good since it does 75 damage a bite.

    And it can't be per-bullet. You're just guessing. If it was per-bullet then two Marines firing on an Onos would kill it before their first clip ran out. One-on-one against an Onos and it would be nearly dead after one clip. I KNOW I've unloaded more than one clip at a time accurately against an Onos and it still didn't kill it.

    That's what led me to think it's just a rating for damage, but that makes no sense- then the pistol would deal damage faster than the LMG.

    So what's the deal? Did they just mess up the descriptions?

    -JohnnySmash
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    Armor isn't just extra-hp, plus people miss a LOT, even though it looks like you should hit, and stuff like that.
    Onos has 500 150. Takes 10 dmg from LMG. 5 goes to armor, 5 goes to health, 50%(=2.5) of the damage dealt to armor is IGNORED, REMOVED, BALEETED, resulting in onos having 495 147.5(or if NS rounds damage like I think it does, 148.), rather than 495 145 or 500 140, or any other number that would make sense...

    Then again, NS has alot of screwy upgrades, Heavy Armor for example has 95% absorption, which means 10 dmg= 0.5 to health, 9.5-50%=4.25 dmg to armor... I think this means 99 196 hp-ap. Oh wait, armor 1-3 upgrades... uh, I don't know really.
  • JohnnySmashJohnnySmash Join Date: 2003-08-04 Member: 18870Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Align+Aug 11 2003, 04:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Aug 11 2003, 04:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Armor isn't just extra-hp, plus people miss a LOT, even though it looks like you should hit, and stuff like that.
    Onos has 500 150. Takes 10 dmg from LMG. 5 goes to armor, 5 goes to health, 50%(=2.5) of the damage dealt to armor is IGNORED, REMOVED, BALEETED, resulting in onos having 495 147.5(or if NS rounds damage like I think it does, 148.), rather than 495 145 or 500 140, or any other number that would make sense... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm... I've had plenty of occurences where I unloaded a couple clips on an Onos at close range. So it didn't die because I was missing and because of armor? I find that a little hard to believe, but it kinda makes sense. I didn't really think missing applied to Onoses. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    -JohnnySmash
  • RedfordRedford Monorailcatfjord Join Date: 2002-04-28 Member: 528Members, NS1 Playtester
    because the LMG does 10 damage per bullet, and the pistol does 20 damage per bullet (respectivly). I assure you, those numbers are indeed correct. Armor does play a very large roll in the Onos' logevity, for sure. Even better: with level 3 weapons: LMG does 13, pistol does 26. Armor still allows the onos to easly survive an LMG clip.
  • Sucky_DuckySucky_Ducky Join Date: 2003-05-04 Member: 16043Members
    And this is why turrets farms EAT oni up... They dont do high damage, but they do alot over a long period of time... First they eat up the armor, then they completely obliterate the hp... (this is why 1.04 onos was unstopable with cara)
  • Ph0enixPh0enix Join Date: 2002-10-08 Member: 1462Members, Constellation
    Those figures are correct. Don't forget the Onos hitbox as well. Shots you think hit won't be doing.
  • Nil_IQNil_IQ Join Date: 2003-04-15 Member: 15520Members
    So basically the answer is ARMOUR.

    I did notice that as an onos against a turret farm my health would stay quite high for a bit, but then it would start declining faster and faster, hence if you're not careful you end up a deados. (i.e, dead onos).

    Try doing a test on a lan (if you can) where you injure the onos til all its armour is gone (by repeatedly injuring it then part healing it since healing does health before armour), THEN empty an lmg clip into it. An unarmoured onos would indeed die to a single LMG clip.

    This also explains why 2.0 skulks seem far tougther, despite the fact that an extra 5 health and 10 armour doesn't look like much on paper.
  • NicatorNicator Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10829Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nil_IQ+Aug 11 2003, 07:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nil_IQ @ Aug 11 2003, 07:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> deados. (i.e, dead onos). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Possibly an offos?

    <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    This is why you will see an Onos die in 4 Shot Gun blasts
    Each SG fires 10 pellets, each pellet does 16 Dmg.
    Thats doesn't seem like alot on its own but thats 160 dmg per point blank Shot.
    640 Dmg in less than 3 seconds.
    or 1600 Dmg in 10 rnds.

    40 rounds would kill a Hive
    4 ppl could kill a hive with out reloading.

    But all my math is with 1.4 values.

    I wish that Jeff Paris would up date the manual, I would love to see the new gun values.

    [edit] I ment 16 DMG, not 6
  • AngelusAngelus Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10810Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Majin+Aug 11 2003, 01:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Majin @ Aug 11 2003, 01:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is why you will see an Onos die in 4 Shot Gun blasts
    Each SG fires 10 pellets, each pellet does 6 Dmg.
    Thats doesn't seem like alot on its own but thats 160 dmg per point blank Shot.
    640 Dmg in less than 3 seconds.
    or 1600 Dmg in 10 rnds.

    40 rounds would kill a Hive
    4 ppl could kill a hive with out reloading.

    But all my math is with 1.4 values.

    I wish that Jeff Paris would up date the manual, I would love to see the new gun values. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Seems like your maths is wrong any way

    6 * 10 is 60, not 160..

    So, each shotgun "clip" does 600 damage...

    which means that without armour, an onos is dead in 8 1/2 shots...

    i dont know what hp hives have in 2.0, but in 1.04 they had 6000

    that means it would take 100 shots to kill it....

    unless of course you mean each pellet does 16 damage, which i find a little bit too overpowered... even for a shotgun
  • someoneElsesomeoneElse Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11135Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Angelus+Aug 11 2003, 09:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Angelus @ Aug 11 2003, 09:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    Seems like your maths is wrong any way

    6 * 10 is 60, not 160..

    unless of course you mean each pellet does 16 damage, which i find a little bit too overpowered... even for a shotgun
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, I think it was just a typo of 16.


    Not related in any way of course, but I've noticed a huge difference in the models for the bullets...

    Spray some LMG, then quickly switch and pop off a few pistol shots, and look down at the spent shell casings. The LMG casings are tiny, while the pistol casings may as well have come from an elephant gun. Kind of makes sense, since LMG spent casings will fly very often in comparison, it just looks a bit amusing to see them side by side now.

    Attached is a bit of a screenshot. No, it's not normally that bright, I had to crank up the brightness and contrast because people were complaining that it was too dark to see.
  • Minstrel_KnightMinstrel_Knight The truth and nothing but the truth... Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9562Banned
    edited August 2003
    With carapace 3 as a skulk I have taken a shotgun blast at point blank and still had 2 life. Regardless it certainly does more than 60 damage a shot.
  • coilcoil Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    16x10=160 for the shotgun.

    As for the LMG -- when was the last time you survived against an Onos long enough to empty an entire clip into him AND hit with every bullet?
  • sekdarsekdar Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9564Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--coil+Aug 11 2003, 09:49 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Aug 11 2003, 09:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for the LMG -- when was the last time you survived against an Onos long enough to empty an entire clip into him AND hit with every bullet? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    when you use your teammates as bodybags, more often than you'd think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    but as was stated above, armor is the key here. also note that the Carapace upgrade (and marine armor and HA for that matter) increases the amount of damage sent to armor (in addition to more), so higher carapace/marine armor upgrades results in more damage simply NULLIFIED in addition to damage reduced.
  • USCMLieutenant_RipleyUSCMLieutenant_Ripley Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9818Members
    the cl_autohelp still says hold the duck key to cling to walls and ceilings.
  • grafgraverkegrafgraverke Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19246Members
    who cares about the math.. all you got to do is compare experiences..

    I for myself can say that I have greater respect for the marine who uses pistol long range, and that I die faster .. if they aim straight ! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Trojan2Trojan2 Join Date: 2003-01-14 Member: 12290Members
    though shotty damage was up'ed to 18 per pellet for a total of 180?
    I dont rember who did it but i wish that guy/gal would release that table with all the gun and alien stats on it.....
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