Early Thoughts

KRaggKRagg Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8832Members
<div class="IPBDescription">end game and origin among other things</div> I'll start with ns_origin.

It's terribly hard for onoses to move around in this map, especially if you loose Vent hive. In that case, it's a veritable nightmare to try to support your team since you have to take long detours to get there. Now, I do realise that the map adheres to the two exits rules, but it doesn't do an onos much good when you have to walk around half the map because you're too big to go through one of them.

Another thing which really bugs me is the end game. When marines are winning, aliens have only hive one abilities and are significantly weaker than when they're winning. On the other hand, when aliens are winning, marines are still as strong as ever and can turret farm and spam indefintely to keep aliens out. I'm not really sure how this can be solved, but I do have a suggestion. A passive effect called "Terror of Inevitability" or something like that which weakens the marines if the marines have had only one resource node (2 for double nodes) for a significant amount of time, for example five minutes. Or perhaps when aliens have had three hives for an extended amount of time.

And while this is more of a feature request, since you do have visual confirmation of when you are in cloak range, it would be nice to be able to see when you are in move and def range (possibly just an icon for all three). On top of letting aliens know when they're within range, this would also help gorges to plan an efficient defense.

ns_bast. There is no easy route in for the end-game, making it an excercise in patience to finish this. The vent can be closed, the elevator shaft is problematic, especially now that the onoses can't climb the ladders to the top, and the turnstyle hinders the momentum needed when you are charging the base.

Devour and stun are a lot of fun as onos and played right an onos can live for a long time.

It is truly hard to choose between which tower to start with, even though only one of the sensory abilities are really worthwhile.

Playing gorge is a lot less stressfull and lots of fun, since the fulcrum of the alien hivemind no longer revolves around the performance of a single gorge.

The new fade is hard to get used to and he does feel a bit lacking in terms of damage output, since he only has two attacks, and the secondary one is a hive three abilities. I like the new blink, especially the fact that you can blink through the air ducts with it, however, I am not too happy about metabolize. When I'm fighting, it doesn't heal me fast enough to warrant changing to it, and when you're not fighting, with the insane speeds of blink, you're really better off just blinking to the nearest DC farm/hive and healing up there.

I'm sure I don't have to say anything about pheromones, but I do want to urge you to make cloaking a chamber only effect and change out the upgrade version for something else, or allow aliens to move around cloaked, for example lowering the cloaking slightly so that it is easier to see the alien. As it is now, there's little use for this ability compared to putting up an SC nearby and getting SoF.
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Comments

  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Re: Turret Farms.

    I've harld seen any Gorges in any 2.0 games. I've joined a game about mid game and had not seen a gorge the remainder of the game.

    Gorge is the building killer. The Bile Bomb makes short work out of any marine out post and two Gorges that back each other up are increadibly effective. Shoot, if you got a Lerk and a Fade or Oni backing them up, they're pretty much unstopable. And thats only 3-4 players on a team taking out a single outpost.

    You guys need to get out of the 1.04 mind set. Lots of things have changed and ther's a lot of new stratigies .. dont write off something because it doesn't work the first time you tried it.

    You guys honestly think we all sat on our **** testing 2.0 ..? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • criticaIcriticaI Join Date: 2003-04-07 Member: 15269Banned, Constellation
    Its all about the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->

    turrret farming is really successful right now.. where are all the <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> 's?

    Come out of the closet, you wanna be gorges!!!! Plz for the sake of the Kharaa's survival. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • KRaggKRagg Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8832Members
    You over-estimate the gorges building killing capability. We're not talking about killing an outpost. We're talking about a turret farm and 8-10 marines that has 3+ IP's. Your gorge isn't going to be getting many shots off before a marine rushes and kills them, and since the onos and fade has been toned down due to them being accessible all of the game, they do not lend the same amount of support on breaking through the last marine base.

    You just can't compare an outpost which has 3-4 turrets and a PG if the comm bothered to a marine team turret farming their base after loosing the last hive with multiple IP's.

    And it has nothing to do with 1.04 mindset as you put it. Most of the games I played (mostly 18-20 people on the servers) had 4+ gorges most of the time, including attempts at breaking through the marines last stand.

    I just don't see what kind of strategies would work when you turn the corner and face 10-20+ turrets. well, other than rush, rush, rush, rush, rush for 10-15+ minutes, meanwhile the comm gains res off of every kill and the last one-two RT's he has so he can churn out new turrets.
  • ShoCorezShoCorez Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18548Members
    Omg Silver Fox, which NS servers have you been playing?! I always see 2 at minimum if not 3 to 5 going about. And of course at start game everyone could rush a res node and build then go back to skulk. Although one thing I did notice is what you commented about gorges bilebomb. During those long attacks against turret-farms I actually didnt see them used (albeit, I forgot I had it as well... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) and they probably forgot about them too thinking them purely build and support class.
  • Garet_JaxGaret_Jax Join Date: 2003-02-23 Member: 13870Members, Constellation
    im waiting 6 hours 59 mins right now to finish the NS2.0 download (i think my modem will up and leave after it, and for some reason Download Accelerator is choosing a bloody french site to download from) so i cant comment on it properly...

    but...

    about gorges gettin nailed from marines easily - a good tactic that worked in 1.0x was to use redemption, and always stay by an OC/DC when a marine is near. skirt around the chamber while the marine tries to shoot u (u will take little damage as the chamber will absorb it); because u r takin damage slowly, redemption will always work, so u will be whisked back to ure hive.

    -Seraph
  • ShoCorezShoCorez Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18548Members
    edited August 2003
    Redemption is great for gorge period, but not as needed anymore. You keep the res you had (max is always 100) and gorges get same amount of res as everyone. And if I die, I just go skulk killing for more res which can build up your res fast! then gorge again. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
    But a good alternative to DC are SC now. Several games I played we started with them. They're great cause...
    A. They cloak ANYTHING alien! (Hive, resnodes, team, etc.)
    B. Well, you're cloaked how to know what's going on when they cant see

    So if you place SC everywhere you are constantly cloaked and free to run around with little worries and makes Cloaking upgrade pretty useless.

    A good gorge setup is:
    Redemption (almost never die)
    Scent of Fear (see marines before they get to you, maxed out you can see them a mile away)
    Silence (Personal choice, but all 3 MC are effective in the way you like)
  • KRaggKRagg Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8832Members
    Yeah, and gorges are cheap. (10 res). But Redemption isn't going to do you much good in regards to taking down the enemy base, since they'll have to wobble back from the nearest hive anyway. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Just tested and it took me two minutes or so to destroy 20 L3/L3 turrets spread out over holo in ns_hera. had adrenaline and caraphase and some def towers nearby. (didn't use move because of the distance, you won't always be guaranteed to have towers within distance either).

    That's of course, not considering marines, comm scanning for towers nearby, onoses running in your way, etc.
  • CommunistWithAGunCommunistWithAGun Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
    edited August 2003
    Maybe the gorges all died from the 4-10 HA HMG tearing his little body to shreds with the new killstick (shottie). On pubs...its nearly impossible to orangize a proper bilebomb run. Bilebomb@ hive2= gg on pubs.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    How you all managed to test every damn alternative of gameplay within the last two days will forever remain a mystery to me.
  • Sir_RobinSir_Robin Join Date: 2003-05-26 Member: 16724Members
    didn't someone say that the gorge were more supposed to be even more like a builder, less a fighter in 2.0?
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Sir Robin+Aug 2 2003, 11:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sir Robin @ Aug 2 2003, 11:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> didn't someone say that the gorge were more supposed to be even more like a builder, less a fighter in 2.0? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, no, we said quite the exact opposite: The Gorge is less of an exclusive builder, and more of a support unit.
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    This thread is called "Early thoughts" Nemesis.
    Anyway, from the games I have played in, mostly all the time I've plaed, we picked sensory over the other upgrade chambers as the first upgrade, cloak and alien motion-tracking =teh win
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    Amen to that communist. I dunno what you PTs were doing when gorges demolished your bases, but every turret farmed base I've seen or build has a phase. And those cute little gorgies die extreamly fast to a shotgun, the weapon of choice for early marines. But use teamwork you say. But we all die we say. Marines in HA with shotguns go through aliens like a hot knife through butter; it's simply astonishing how fast shotguns demolish oni and fades. You devs and PTs seem to think we don't know about bile bomb: of course we do! It's just whenever we try using it, we die!
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Search around. Within the last 36 hours, we had three stages:

    "OMG, hive-lockdown still works!"

    Then:

    "Aliens are grossly overpowered!"

    Now:

    "Shotgun and HA reign surpreme."

    Next will quite possibly be:

    "Damn, Lerks are just too good!" Because people realized about the merit of Spores.

    Each and every time, I'm told that people tried "everything" (which is what my last post was aimed at). Honestly, I'm starting to get a little grumpy.
  • Bosnian_CowboyBosnian_Cowboy Join Date: 2003-06-07 Member: 17088Members, Constellation
    Maybe you should retire. Nobody likes a grumpy moderator. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

    [I hope you take no offense to the tone you percieve from this text message and hold a grudge for all eternity]
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Aug 2 2003, 12:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Aug 2 2003, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Maybe you should retire. Nobody likes a grumpy moderator. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I know. That's why they promoted me to admin status <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[I hope you take no offense to the tone you percieve from this text message and hold a grudge for all eternity]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nah, you criticised my mental and not NSes gameplay balance. I can live with that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Bosnian_CowboyBosnian_Cowboy Join Date: 2003-06-07 Member: 17088Members, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    I tend to get in a lot of trouble with moderators/administrators on forums/servers because I tend to not treat them any different from the other players, and they take that personally. So I've decided to start explaining my manner so I can stop getting banned or "You're not welcome to this server anymore" (in this case it was both).
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Sigh. I knew the forums would be bad after 2.0, but this is ridiculous. The amount of criticism based entirely on ignorance is astounding.

    I'm starting to get very bitter indeed about the problems most players have with going gorge. It's hard enough getting them to go gorge early game to drop a res and maybe a chamber or two, and harder still to get a skulk who never went gorge in the beginning to use his res to get an early hive. But it seems hardest of all to get 2-3 players to give up their combat classes to go gorge and bile a big turret farm(yes, it works as well against 20 turrets as it does against 5, as long as you have some intelligent alien support) or a base. And even if you can pull that off, the rest of the aliens won't properly support the gorges(LERKS DO NOT USE UMBRA NEARLY ENOUGH!) and the gorges won't heal eachother so they die and everybody says bile bomb rushes don't work.

    In fact, it's pretty hard to get anyone to do anything you ask them to. I don't know if it's just because I still don't have a mic and people don't read text(you'd be surprised how often people say they never pay attention to text chat) or if most pub players are still extremely selfish or what but it's really getting on my nerves.
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    I think 36 hours is good enough to get a generally feel of something like turret farms <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
    Gorge vs turret =the turrets will win, Bilebomb cant take them down fast enough before you're killed, by the turrets.
    Okay, skulks are quite good at taking down turrets, especially if they have xenocide and it's not overcrowded by marines.
    Fades is NOT good against turrets, but groups of them can still take them down, if there is no marines
    Onos against turrets, yes, they can take down outpost but as soon as the matter is a marine base, the onos WILL get killed, the turrets will block it's way, because of their huge size the marines will most likely hit with all their bullets, and 10 bullets a second *10 marines =Onos pwned

    Overall, turret farms prolong the game, something I thought the Development team was fighting. Turret farms can be taken down, but it's hard, especially if the marines have relocated to some nasty places <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> the more marines there is in the game, the more harder it will be, and you have to really organize a mass alien rush in order to take them down :/
    So, I do think they should be toned down, just alittle
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Aug 2 2003, 07:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Aug 2 2003, 07:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think 36 hours is good enough to get a generally feel of something like turret farms  <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Bzzzt. Wrong.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gorge vs turret =the turrets will win, Bilebomb cant take them down fast enough before you're killed, by the turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Um, you don't just stand there in front of the turrets getting shot until you die. If possible you stand around the corner and hit the turrets with BB's radius. If not, you can get one of the other gorges to keep you healed.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Okay, skulks are quite good at taking down turrets, especially if they have xenocide and it's not overcrowded by marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Xeno no longer does double damage vs. buildings, and any decent number of turrets chew skulks up in seconds.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fades is NOT good against turrets, but groups of them can still take them down, if there is no marines<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, with Meta and/or regen, they're better than skulks are. If there are no marines a Fade can take down a small/medium outpost on its own.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Onos against turrets, yes, they can take down outpost but as soon as the matter is a marine base, the onos WILL get killed, the turrets will block it's way, because of their huge size the marines will most likely hit with all their bullets, and 10 bullets a second *10 marines =Onos pwned<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, that's right.


    So now we come back to Bile Bomb, the most effective way for aliens to eliminate large numbers of turrets. With the aliens you mentioned above and Lerks defending the gorges while they bile from as safe a location as possible, big turret farms are no issue.
  • SeikedenSeikeden Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5443Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 2 2003, 11:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 2 2003, 11:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->How you all managed to test every damn alternative of gameplay within the last two days will forever remain a mystery to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    its amazing how quickly you exhaust all strategies in a 2 hour turret farming exercise. with 3 hives ive seen a few games now where eventually fades sniping the important tf and open turrets bringsthem down, but when a carapaced onos is dead before he can reach the first turret how the hell can a gorge survive?
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin--Seikeden+Aug 2 2003, 07:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seikeden @ Aug 2 2003, 07:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> its amazing how quickly you exhaust all strategies in a 2 hour turret farming exercise. with 3 hives ive seen a few games now where eventually fades sniping the important tf and open turrets bringsthem down, but when a carapaced onos is dead before he can reach the first turret how the hell can a gorge survive? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well the gorge can survive by keeping healed, not staying in front of the turrets for an extended period of time and getting other aliens to protect him. Very simple really.
  • SeikedenSeikeden Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5443Members
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Zek+Aug 2 2003, 12:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zek @ Aug 2 2003, 12:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Seikeden+Aug 2 2003, 07:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seikeden @ Aug 2 2003, 07:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> its amazing how quickly you exhaust all strategies in a 2 hour turret farming exercise. with 3 hives ive seen a few games now where eventually fades sniping the important tf and open turrets bringsthem down, but when a carapaced onos is dead before he can reach the first turret how the hell can a gorge survive? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well the gorge can survive by keeping healed, not staying in front of the turrets for an extended period of time and getting other aliens to protect him. Very simple really. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I think if you were in the games I was playing you would find this is not the case, if a gorge must leave safety and go more than a few steps out of cover to bilebomb he is already dead. In the last game I played (ns_caged) the end game was extended for an extra hour, we tried a double onos+redemption rush, which almost wqorked except when the marines saved enough res for a couple of hmgs then, even that couldnt save us, next we tried onos + gorge, which was pitiful, onos dies in less then 5 seconds and the gorges dies instantly, having got off maybe 3 bilebombs, then a couple more players joined and I used a redemption fade to snipe their tf+turrets, took about half an hour of timed onos rushes and constant acid rockets, with the occasional marine getting out of base and causing me to warp back to base, hehe luckily with blink thats a 15 second round trip <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->.. but yeah.. took a long time, tried bilebombing from the vent behind their base a few times but after a couple of shots its all over for the gorgey.

    edit:
    every marine game I've seen won didnt involve turret farming, every alien game I've seen won <i>quickly</i> didn't involve turret farming, how about a hard limit to how many turrets you can have in an area? I don't mean to be bitchy or anything but atm this seems like a major issue >.>
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    Most alien teams seem to fall apart in the end game. You just have to have the Onos <i>and</i> the Gorge <i>and</i> the Lerk <i>and</i> the Fade there. This is a teamplay game. Don't expect that to change.
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Um, you don't just stand there in front of the turrets getting shot until you die. If possible you stand around the corner and hit the turrets with BB's radius. If not, you can get one of the other gorges to keep you healed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Most likely they'll out of the BB's radius, since you'll have to be pretty close to the turret if you want to hit it.
    Also, one gorge cant keep you healed, either it will run out of energy or it will die as well and if the turrets are decently placed meaning BB will only hit one turret, it's bye-bye gorgey

    <span style='color:white'>[edit]</span><!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most alien teams seem to fall apart in the end game. You just have to have the Onos and the Gorge and the Lerk and the Fade there. This is a teamplay game. Don't expect that to change.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    are you saying a team HAVE to be consisted of every class in order to win? if so, I dont think it's balanced<span style='color:white'>[/edit]

    Don't doublepost, please.</span>
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Why should that make it unblanced? Every RTS in the book demands "Mixed troops".
  • SeikedenSeikeden Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5443Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 2 2003, 01:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 2 2003, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why should that make it unblanced? Every RTS in the book demands "Mixed troops". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    what if you are playing a game with 2 or 3 aliens as they are the only ones patient enough to keep at the turret farm?
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    Actually, I don't have a problem with turrets, at least as long as we are talking hive 2 or better. Spamming umbra around the fades or skulks or gorges works very well. What's hard is finding a lerk to do that ...

    Even the much harder problem - 10 marines covering 20 turrets with an incessant GL spam - is actually possible to handle - at least at hive 3. Of course, it takes a COORDINATED alien team to actually break such a stalemate. I actually think it's good - it teaches the aliens teamwork. The proper mix of lerks to primal scream and umbra the Onoses that charges, while the gorges follows up with a bilebomb spam only AFTER the onoses are occupying the minds of the marines ... will crack most last last stands pretty fast.

    Of course, getting the required alien teamwork to break a marine last stand can take an hour or even two, in case of the really hardheaded alien cases.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--Seikeden+Aug 2 2003, 01:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Seikeden @ Aug 2 2003, 01:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 2 2003, 01:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 2 2003, 01:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why should that make it unblanced? Every RTS in the book demands "Mixed troops". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    what if you are playing a game with 2 or 3 aliens as they are the only ones patient enough to keep at the turret farm? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, if only two or three aliens can co-operate while the whole of the marines acts as team (which is pretty much the only way to keep a turret farm under constant attack working), they seem to be doing better.

    Sorry, but that's it. There is no Onos killing all turrets anymore; like with the marines, the aliens will have to join their forces in the endgame.
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Aug 2 2003, 08:02 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Aug 2 2003, 08:02 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why should that make it unblanced? Every RTS in the book demands "Mixed troops". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    As I see it
    RTS= Commander mode
    FPS = rest of the game (of course it involves straetegy as well)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    I dont think it's a good idea to mix classic RTS with NS.. In RTS the AI is better than the NS average <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
    Also, every RTS does not require mixed troops, for an example, in Red alert I could with a large enough amount of Mammoth tanks complete annihilate the enemy base, in NS aliens should no matter what lifeform they take be able to deal with turrets, IMO <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
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