Help! How Do You Get The Marines To Listen?

Captain_Chaos · March 2003

I don't want to sound like a sour-puss so I won't go into any specifics, but how do you commanders get your marines to listen? I just had a horrible game, it actually made me give up and get out of the com chair. No one would listen to me because all the marines had their own plan. When I tried to go with their plan to get something, anything, done they would stop following through on their own plans. *bleah*

FlatlineUTD · March 2003

Use their names when you give them orders, that always helps.

At the start of each game when I'm assigning squads (can't wait till 1.1!!!!) I tell them that if they're ever NOT with their squad, I won't help them. And I don't for the most part - if they're vets I'll let it slide. I shower health, ammo, weapons, and equipment on the ones that DO work as a team, however.

Eventually the marines that don't listen will either quit, or start working with the team.

Works for me, and I've never been ejected.

MedHead · March 2003

I will either use their names, or give them waypoints. I may occasionally try to get their attention by placing the "Guard Soldier" waypoint over their head: however, since that's rather annoying, I rarely do it. If they fail to listen several times, I inform them that they will receive no aid whatsoever, and that their requests for equipment, health, or structures will go unanswered.

If a group of marines will not listen, and instead stand around the armory, I will eventually recycle the armory, so that they will listen. That doesn't always go over well, but it gets their attention.

I haven't ever been ejected... I think. But my memory isn't always the best.

That_Annoying_Kid · March 2003

or if the commander slap mod is installed you can *slap* some sense into them
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Koruption · March 2003

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (th@ annoying kid @ Mar 28 2003, 02:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> or if the commander slap mod is installed you can *slap* some sense into them
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> </td></tr></table>
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT SERVERS HAVE A COMMANDER SLAP PLUG IN. I WOULD LOVE TO SLAP THE CRAP OUT OF THOSE ANNOYING RAMBOS.

Siberian_Dingo · March 2003

In small games i tell (let) the noobs on my teams just roam around and disturb the alian's progress, wile i build up base.

JazzX · March 2003

I've only sat in comm chair twice (once to hit the distress beacon and once to drop equipment in a 3 vs 3 game) so my perspective is from the other side. Using player names is always a good idea, giving waypoints when your marines ask for them is also a plus (I've seen so many comms refuse to give a waypoint, even when directly asked). Clearly explain what you're doing. If your plan will take too long to explain it, at least describe what the short term objective is ("We're going to take holoroom and go from there").

If you send a group to complete a task and they are likely to encounter stiff alien resistance, keep a tab on them and drop health and ammo as needed. When a comm drops health on me before I ask (or sometimes before I realize I need it), it doesn't matter if his next order is to attack a group of fades with the blunt end of my flashlight, I'm going to do it. And if I fail the moment I respawn I'm going to run back there and try it again.

That said I would also suggest that you NEVER berate your marines. Even if they fail at the simpliest task costing your team tons of equipment, never call them pathetic, tell them they all suck, etc. Everytime I've seen a comm do this, whether I was part of the group that failed or not, I do one of two things: (1) I disconnect immediately, making a mental note of the comm's name or (2) I become the llama from ****. Constantly asking for weapons/armor/jetpacks, arguing and complaining about every order he gives, running the exact opposite direction from waypoints, circling buildings dropped in front of me so he knows I'm not building it on purpose and so forth.

It's okay to get frustrated with the marines and express your frustration. And if they do lose 6 sets of jetpacks and heavy machine guns trying to take down an unprotected hive you should probably let them know they're going to have to play (a lot) better if the team is going to win.

That's my two cents anyway.

Demon_Wraith · March 2003

When they stop listening to me I recycle the spawns and the armory. I drop an armory where I want them to go and tell them to build. If they die, I use distress and we start going in waves. I had a commander do that to us once because he was insane and it was pretty fun, but alot of work. So, as a commander, I use it as a style of punishment for bad marines.

Kid-A · March 2003

Best way to get marines to listen - win a game.

Best way to win a game - get marines to listen.

Ever heard the phrase 'catch 22'?

Basically, I find being quick at the start (dropping ip's arm) means that they can see your not a newb and gets a little respect. The rest has to be earned. If you are slow at the start you'll soon hear calls of newb comm.

BlackPanther · March 2003

You can't expect every moron that comes from CS (A huge chunk of the NS community) to start teamplaying.
You just gotta push them to go where you want.
If they don't listen to you early in the game, simply recycle everything, spawn a few CC everywhere to loose all the res you've got, and F4 out.
Then let the skulks eat them.

Games are won or lost at the start of a new round. If they don't listen to you at the start, you're as good as dead.

Church · March 2003

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BlackPanther @ Mar 28 2003, 02:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You can't expect every moron that comes from CS (A huge chunk of the NS community) to start teamplaying.
You just gotta push them to go where you want.
If they don't listen to you early in the game, simply recycle everything, spawn a few CC everywhere to loose all the res you've got, and F4 out.
Then let the skulks eat them.

Games are won or lost at the start of a new round. If they don't listen to you at the start, you're as good as dead.  </td></tr></table> 
That's very bad sportmanship. No. Do not become what the n00bs are accusing you of.

OpenGL · March 2003

Many newbies have transferred from CS.
My final conclusion after many failed attempts at being the commander on public servers is that people sometimes have weird CS flashbacks. Suddenly, they find themselves in de_dust, hopping; waiting for the next terrorist to come around the corner or they think they'll win the round by killing as many opponents as they can; must be a side-effect of the bacteria.
I simply ignore the CS crowd; but that hasn't really turned up any better either.
Having only 2-3 sane marines out of ~9 doesn't guarantee a victory. Some guy hops in the comm chair as soon as you get out to defend the base (because, obviously, the bacteria-infested ones can't), and he decides to put another CC in some welded vent with no way out; go build it (this is one of the marines that you sort of trusted and gave a jp, but learn the individual is a complete idiot in the end), get back in, and actually build an IP next to that CC. So the next time you spawn, you have nothing to do with the game anymore. You're trapped in a dark red-lit vent with 2 other marines, trying to hop your way out.
*Sigh*
G'luck, heh <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Chopper_Dave1 · March 2003

Fear is a motivator.

Not that commanders can do anything to inspire fear into their troops, but the aliens can. Take "risks" that all your marine players can see. Build your spawn gates closer to the doors, so the aliens can reach them faster (I usually build at the bottom of the ramp on nancy). Don't build turrets, and if you have REALLY unruly marines, don't even drop mines. Make your main base as vulnerable as humanly possible, without being stupid about it (i.e. building something next to a chew-thru grate) and make damned sure that your marines know about it. Leave a vet to guard the base, then tell everyone else that if they don't get their butts in gear and follow orders then the aliens will attack and obliterate the base. It's all psycological; I find that rambo-ism tends to come from the sense of security. If you both neglect base defenses AND follow a build order that's not widely known, then the rambos will be a little more likely to follow your orders.

Works for me. Either the marines follow orders, and the aliens are put on the defensive while I expand expand expand...or if the marines STILL don't follow orders, and the base gets eaten within the first 5 minutes. Win-win situation for the commander, honestly.

Of course, once you get out of the early game, and you feel like you've done whay you want to do (i.e. secured two hives, or 1 hive and a ton of resources) then it's a good idea to build defenses at that point. It's a popular tactic for losing aliens to bumrush the marine base with all they've got.

Heh, but the best way to get marines to listen is to reg on a server and get to know the vets. Then you'll usually have at least one or two guys willign to follow orders.

Stoneburg · March 2003

I come from CS and I like it when I get some CS'ers on the team. This ensures I have a few rines that can actually aim and that understand the idea of rushing. The RTS players are pretty useless to me since they mainly stand around trying to get me to enforce *their* strategy (We should do this, we need an obs, we should do that...) and get eaten by skulks after emptying a clip in the roof.

Of course the QW players are my absolute favorites because they are more familliar with the physics of NS, but they are so few.

Janus_Krug · March 2003

Are there really so few noobs like myself, who have backgrounds in both RTS AND CS/DoD/HL/UT/etc....

I quickly decided on a policy when I started this game. Give no **** to commanders, take no **** as commander. If I'm a grunt, I don't care if he CC spams, I'll build the damn things, maybe he has a plan in his head. If I'm commander, I let people know how it's going to be, and remind them that their oh-so precious HMGs and JPs are hanging on me getting enough rez (requiring them to take and HOLD rez points) to build them. Working wonders so far.

lagger · March 2003

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Captain Chaos @ Mar 28 2003, 05:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I don't want to sound like a sour-puss so I won't go into any specifics, but how do you commanders get your marines to listen? I just had a horrible game, it actually made me give up and get out of the com chair. No one would listen to me because all the marines had their own plan. When I tried to go with their plan to get something, anything, done they would stop following through on their own plans. *bleah*  </td></tr></table> 
If they dont listen to you its becuz of 3 reasons: Bad marines, Bad Strat/Commander, They want to have fun and your strat requires some type of disipline.

Stoneburg · March 2003

Totally forgot about the topic:

It's all about yelling. Yelling and threatening. Use peoples names as well, and assign blame.

"Ok, since Mr.Goober didn't want to build the damn phase gate we now have to WALK all the way to hive X and take it back."

"Way to go rambo and lose that HA Mr.Goober, that cost the team 60 res, you sure won't be getting any more equipment."

Insult people for being stupid so others learn from their mistakes.

"Good thing you loaded up on 500 bullets there, NSPlayer, you almost used a whole clip before you died."

Carrots are good too (even though I prefer whips, it's in my personality).

"Kill that fade and you'll get a shotgun"

Complimenting people infront of the whole team.

"Great job Mr.Not-Goober! Not.Goober killed their first RT, that should slow them down"

Being quick and decisive also helps. I usually drop Med Kits on people before they ask about it. "COM I need a... oh, nevermind, thanks COM".

As soon as you're in the CC you need to start yelling, don't give any of the grunts the time to start thinking for themself. "OK GET TO MESS HALL NOW NOW NOW!! ONE GUY STAY AND BUILD THE IP!! MOVE IT!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IN BASE?!?! GO GO GO!!!"

And the all time favorite: "You have 3 seconds to stop humping the armory before I recycle it"

Don't allow people to question you. Yeah, you may be wrong, but that isn't the point. It's better to have people carry out a bad plan then stand around critisiing it.

"No there will NOT be an armory in base, either build the 10 observatories I dropped or get the hell out!"

To quote the ficticious Duke of Ellington as portrayed by Stephen Fry

Duke of Wellington: NEVER! There's only one way to win a campaign: shout, shout and shout again.

Edmund Blackadder: You don't think then that inspired leadership and tactical ability have anything to do with it?

Duke of Wellington: NO! It's all down to shouting. WAAGGHH!

Eclipse · March 2003

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Totally forgot about the topic:

It's all about yelling. Yelling and threatening. Use peoples names as well, and assign blame.

"Ok, since Mr.Goober didn't want to build the damn phase gate we now have to WALK all the way to hive X and take it back."

"Way to go rambo and lose that HA Mr.Goober, that cost the team 60 res, you sure won't be getting any more equipment."

Insult people for being stupid so others learn from their mistakes.

"Good thing you loaded up on 500 bullets there, NSPlayer, you almost used a whole clip before you died."

Carrots are good too (even though I prefer whips, it's in my personality).

"Kill that fade and you'll get a shotgun"

Complimenting people infront of the whole team.

"Great job Mr.Not-Goober! Not.Goober killed their first RT, that should slow them down"

Being quick and decisive also helps. I usually drop Med Kits on people before they ask about it. "COM I need a... oh, nevermind, thanks COM".

As soon as you're in the CC you need to start yelling, don't give any of the grunts the time to start thinking for themself. "OK GET TO MESS HALL NOW NOW NOW!! ONE GUY STAY AND BUILD THE IP!! MOVE IT!!! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING IN BASE?!?! GO GO GO!!!"

And the all time favorite: "You have 3 seconds to stop humping the armory before I recycle it"

Don't allow people to question you. Yeah, you may be wrong, but that isn't the point. It's better to have people carry out a bad plan then stand around critisiing it.

"No there will NOT be an armory in base, either build the 10 observatories I dropped or get the hell out!"
</td></tr></table>

Hey I do this to <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

ATI · March 2003

I have think that usage of names is good. I use a more soft approach. Tell the marines in the beginning the short term goals and which hive I am looking for. I usually tell people to get in groups and try to memorize the good players names. This way I can tell which people i need to follow my best team members. I think its also pretty key to let them know when they are messing your strategy up. However if people are screwing up due to their own stupidity and losing my weapons and items, i quit iving them stuff.

I only give my stuff to people who stand still that way I know where exactly my equipment will go. Its useful so taht some jerk doesn't take the HA you tried to give a skilled player.

Now to the CS stuff. I have played it all. Firearms/UT/UT2/UT2003/QuakeIII/CS/NS/TFC/Riccochet/and all the good RTS. The way i see it, the crappy CS players play rambo style. Good CS players realize that teamwork is the best way to dominate a round. Also because dying has stricter penalties in CS i find that seasoned veterans of CS tend to aim and do better while playing NS. However there is the "I r0x0rz ur b0x0rz" mentality with CS players in some cases. Its hard to comm these types of people in general. Don't hate the CS community for the many bad apples that transfer to NS. Trust me, the good CS players follow orders and end up being squad leaders.

AIRinc_FaReZ · March 2003

yup shouting works. better if you have a mic. best if you are a squeaky 10 yr old screaming at the top of your voice at potentially/probably older players.

ripped0ff · March 2003

Not only do I explain to people who don't listen to me that I won't help them out if they don't listen, but I also make an effort to annoy them. For instance, if I spot them in base and I feel I need a proto lab, well guess who it happens to fall on top of. A few times I've gone so far as to tell the aliens where he is (i.e. "say: Hey MastaKilla42, why are you leaving thru the turntable from marine spawn with no extra ammo and 48 life?"). Sure it doesn't help to do things like that, but it'll really make you feel better.

Narf · March 2003

Stoneburg your commanding techniques remind me far too much of Full Metal Jacket <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> I'm guessing that's part of your insipiration.
Anyways, I kind of suck at commanding because i have trouble motivating most of my marines. Usually i get 3-4 marines out of 9 that will listen to me at all, but the rest I can never count on to do anything. Personally i find that the biggest thing that can make your commanding life hell is handing out JP's to everyone... While they are invaluable if used with hmgs and a few experience players, they turn the rest of the team into equipment-begging lone wolf tards. I think i'll start using the do-something-and-get-a-jp technique more often.

MedHead · March 2003

Heh, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I do that often.

severijn · March 2003

I need to bind those things stoneburg said and buy me a decent microphone.
Just like the oposing force expansion drill sergeant.

AIRinc_FaReZ · March 2003

Decent mic + whiney 10 yr old girly voice = t3h pwnz. at least youve helped ONE team to win, even if it aint yours.

Stoneburg · March 2003

Well I'm 27 so there goes your whole "argument" <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Oh, for extra effect I press the mic to the mouth and really scream if someone is being excptionally stupid.

Everyone always thinks I am pi$$ed off when I am comming but I'm usually not, I guess I just sound like it. I get a lot of:

"Jeez, chill, I'm going..."

To which I usually respond:

"I am chilled. NOW GO FASTER!!!!"

When I actually have a plan, and it is complex, I usually go for my patented "Slow and Reasonable Voice" though, but 90% of the time yelling gets the job done.

The thing is that people actually WANT to be dominated. People LIKE having an authorative figure telling them what to do. Also, positive re-inforcement works MUCH better if it is scarce. Basically you want to yell at people for doing wrong more often then you compliment them for doing right.

Try these two and see which one works the best:

"Phase gate is under attack, go through it please"

and

"STOP HUMPING THE ARMORY YOU AND GET THROUGH THE **** PHASEGATE BEFORE WE LOSE IT!!!"

Mythr1l · March 2003

tbh i find a comm that talks is a comm who will get more respect from his team, if your comms talking on voice comms (or text even better) then you can understand him and see he is not just some random newbie. of course this wont work for some, some online gamers just never say anything, never hear anything, and are about as much fun as a bot to play with. my advice is find a server where you can play regulary, and befriend the regulars. when your playing with a group of players you know then your orders will be followed better. if you join a server full of random newbies, make sure u join alien team.

btw just another point: Medpacks!!

comms if you give your troops medpacks and ammo they will be happy, as a rambo player (people know im a rambo which is always good to have 1-2 on a team) then thats the best thing you can have. if comm says "waste of res on a medpack" then tbh that insults me as saying that im a waste of res, other day comm wont give me a med cos it a waste of res, well i liked that comm <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'> if you dont keep ur troops happy they wont follow ur orders, why the hell should i follow his orders and get hurt doing them, if that faglet wont give me a medpack <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

AIRinc_FaReZ · March 2003

Well sometimes dropping meds ARE a waste of res. ESP if your just in base.....

Error404 · March 2003

I rarely comm these days, but if I am on a public server and I end up as commander, and noone listens to what I say, I just don't bother trying to win the game and let everyone have a good time... ie, drop lots of shotguns, upgrade armor and weapons. Sometimes, we might get lucky, sometimes we don't. Either way, I've never been ejected from the comm chair.

Ayatollah · March 2003

In my experience, I've been one of the better comms in pub games. The hallmark of achievement is pulling together noobs against a clan-stacked alien team. Hugely important to commanding is never sounding like you don't know what to do. Even if the aliens have retaken x-hive or a costly jphmg team just got downed, I always: "It's allright. Get back together, and we'll go here instead."

The following are a few pointers. In no clear order. Apologies if I repeat myself.

1. Unreasonable Demands. You need to give your marines the resources to do what you're asking them to.
Example: You can't expect marines to fight off skulks with 3 carapace without any upgrades. You can't ask one marine to guard the triad nozzle.

2. Know the Maps. This doesn't only apply in knowing sweet spots for sieges or vents. If you know a spot is ambush-heaven, let your marines know in advance. This ties in with the next one...

3. Prioritize. I usually don't give healthpacks or ammo before early tech. But if I see the marine in a vital position, even if he is alone, I will supply him if he's capable of suppressing the aliens' early-game. Have a clear idea of what you're going to do and set your priorities as such.

4. Motion tracking. The best upgrade for a comm. You have full map reconnaisance of general alien movement. At what point you get this upgrade, is up to you. If you track a gorg-speed blip, and then hover over it and hear gorg steps - see if he's alone enough to dispatch a marine to put him out. Not to mention the benefits it gives for soldiers.

5. Be compassionate. I know it sounds like cheesy psychobabble, but be very aware of your marines' needs. If you see player x having just downed 4 skulks, its a good chance he'll need either health or ammo. If I have a lone player guarding a nozzle/location, or advancing, I will tell him to hold up and send him backup.

6. Let the marines know what you're doing. Announcing upgrades and the progress of them doesn't hurt. It gives them the idea that thing are being done.

7. Be cheap as hell. Now this sounds like it goes against compassionate, but not if you have a clear vision that your marines can see too. Linking in with prioritize, don't dump 20 res worth of healthpacks and ammo on a marine if he's not causing any significant pressure. This also ties in with the way you build/upgrade your buildings. I'm not going to tell anyone how to run their strats, but... weigh the benefit from 80~ res from a TF and the 3 turrets needed to cover it, and weapon upgrades. At 3 carapace, turrets are almost ineffectual if they're still base level.

8. Get everyone in the game. Sure you have a favorite clanner or a really good guy on your team. But don't give him the job of rushing their main hive while you have everyone else sit at base. If someone's been guarding for a really long time, offer to rotate him off.

Keep the game good humored. Don't be afraid to take a loss (cough jp rush cough) - I've lost on servers with new people before, but they've still asked me to comm the next game. You have to be a reasonably good people-person too; people enjoy a comm which they can have fun under, and hopefully win. I'll write more later if it comes up, but I have class.

-Ayatollah

ThE_HeRo · March 2003

I always threaten them to not give them anything for the rest of the game. (like flatline <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> ) It works very well. You know the people that jump in the cc at the beginning of the game, build 2 ips,armory, and give themselves a shotty, then they say "aight, whos gonna comm?" Yeah. Nothing the rest of the game. For whatever reason.

Also, if you want to separate the boys from the men, the ones that ask for crap ALWAYS, I always tell them, ok who wants a jump/hmg? Team is begging now. Tell them if they don't complete the objective (killing hive, w/e) they get nothing the rest of the game. I always get people that know what they're doing after that. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'> And they usually complete the objective.

Hope this helps <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Help! How Do You Get The Marines To Listen?

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