Tremulous has been in development for about 2 years now, it is in no way ripping off NS... It is being developed by some members of the Quake 2 Gloom community, which has been around 5 years... Gloom was the first FPS/RTS mod not NS...
Here is <a href='http://www.planetquake.com/teamreaction/gloom/index.htm' target='_blank'>a link to the Gloom website...</a>
<!--QuoteBegin---Vash-+Feb 27 2003, 07:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Vash- @ Feb 27 2003, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Looks fun. I'm gonna have to reinstall Q3 when this is released. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh heh, I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Well maybe not EXACT, because I still have Q3 installed. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> The only thing I don't like about that mod so far, is the fact that the wall view orientation is in there. It gets really dizzying when moving fast.
Wow, now that was a quick transition!! The first half of the posts so far were mostly against this new game, now they're more supportive. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'll admit though - I, too, had a good seat on the bandwagon until I poked around in their website. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
sry, i just saw those textures and thought that they were stolen. When i saw them, i stopped reading cause i was ****, what i got from it is that it was a rts/fps combo. With humans and aliens, but i was pretty much only pointing out the texture usage. Which i was told a few times to ask the ns team to use those, misunderstandin on my part, sry.
<!--QuoteBegin--Greedo386+Feb 28 2003, 12:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Greedo386 @ Feb 28 2003, 12:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--DeAtH_tO_gOrDoN+Feb 27 2003, 04:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeAtH_tO_gOrDoN @ Feb 27 2003, 04:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys should be glad that this new genre is flourishing so well! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is definitely the right way to be thinking about something like this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> as i see it, the more FPS/RTS games we have the better, esp on a variety of games. FPS/RTS is the most creative thing i've ever seen and would be glad if a mod came out for a ton of games.. i wouldn't mind seein one on ut2k3 either!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--KboT+Feb 27 2003, 07:02 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KboT @ Feb 27 2003, 07:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The gloom forums are still very active!!! :o <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> best game evar, its what originally got me into NS, cause playing on the 1 single server onecall 24/7 got kinda boring hehe
though this game is lookin cool too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
You people saying this is a rip off, what the hell do you think you're accomplishing? do you think your rabid "defense" of NS will get you favor from the Dev team? Do you think it some how puts you above other players of NS? Kbot and his attempt at hilarity in his "**** **** **** ****" post particularly stands out. This thread is pointless, they did not rip off NS and if they did, then NS must have ripped off GLOOM, and GLOOM must have ripped off any other movie with Aliens and Humans in it. Same gameplay? Big deal! Same free textures? BIG DEAL!
If anything this "call to arms" only puts the NS community in a bad light, rather than a positive one.
If you guys have Q3, it's worth downloading thier wall walking demo. It's not nearly as disorienting as you think (not as bad as AvP, I'd say).
And for me, the more the better. If no one ripped off other games/mods, we'd have a lot fewer games to play. Q3F is a great Team Fortress game...and it rips off TF completely. Does that make it bad? Of course not.
Uhhh I'd like to point out that Timbo is the creator of Tremulous <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> I have been playing Gloom for a good 3 and a half years, and I have to say I felt the same way you guys did when I heard NS was coming out. Jealous. But Now that I hear you whining about how Tremulous (being made by people INSIDE the gloom community) is a copy of NS, and the fact that it was started WAYYY before NS existed....I see how ignorant you people look. The general difference between NS and Q3Gloom, Q2Gloom, and Tremulous...is that NS uses a resource system. Gloom and etc use a frag based system where you earn your class based on how many frags you get, and both teams can create as many spawns as they want, where they want...these 2 elements tend to make things a little more hectic and...action filled <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->...They also get some other neat things like webs for hatchlings and increased FOV...learn to accept other mods, because other mods have accepted <u>you</u>.
i saw da screenshots all i can say is nice nice nice nice(and more nice) wonder when it will finsih tho(lucky i still hav my q3 cd <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
this mod looks great, ive honestly been hoping there was going to be something like this for q3.. just cause i happen to like that engine a lot more than halflifes, so this is a pleasant surprise!
This is wonderful. In fact, this is the coolest thing EVAR. I only wish you guys had waited a bit...I can only IMAGINE what you could do with the karma engine in UT2k3. Hmmm...thinking about that engine...makes me want to get to work. Too bad I'm utter crap at artsy ****.
there are 2 main problems with the quake3 engine unlike the half-life engine.
1. no lag compensated hit detection so there's delay when you fire and you can't aim at where you see things coz then you will miss. you have to aim where you think the enemy will be on the server by the time your shot message reaches it bearing in mind that where you see the enemy on your computer is where they were on the server in the past.
2. dynamic lights are not added to the lightmap but multiplied to it. so if some area is dark it is treated like that area is covered by black soot and so cannot be lit, and if a room has a red light for instance and you bring a white light into it you will only make the redness brighter and will not bring any green or blue to make things more white-ish.
This is very amusing. I constantly try to wind Timbo up about this, and say "you know all the half life CS lamers are going to say OMG NS RIP!!!1". Its finally happened.
I play/have played NS a fair bit, but tbh i just hate halflife sooo much I dont play it much anymore. Oh yeah some retarded guy came onto a NS server and constantly played annoying band music, and we couldnt kick him without an admin, that **** me off too.
Natural Selection is a good game, and a good idea. However imo the aliens are too slow. I have beta tested Trem a fair bit, and while no way finished/near perfect by any stretch of the imagination, it has some very neat ideas and is very smooth.
Oh, you dont collect resources in trem either. Timbo has been working on Tremulous now for roughly 4 years, so i can assure you the ideas arent ripped. GLOOM FOREVAR! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--ViPr+Feb 28 2003, 02:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ViPr @ Feb 28 2003, 02:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> there are 2 main problems with the quake3 engine unlike the half-life engine.
1. no lag compensated hit detection so there's delay when you fire and you can't aim at where you see things coz then you will miss. you have to aim where you think the enemy will be on the server by the time your shot message reaches it bearing in mind that where you see the enemy on your computer is where they were on the server in the past.
2. dynamic lights are not added to the lightmap but multiplied to it. so if some area is dark it is treated like that area is covered by black soot and so cannot be lit, and if a room has a red light for instance and you bring a white light into it you will only make the redness brighter and will not bring any green or blue to make things more white-ish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> For the 'lag compensated thing', cl_timenudge.
In addition the lights in quake 3 look much nicer than half life. Stop comparing them, q3 wins hands down.
Tremulous for Quake 3 Arena is an open source modification that blends a team based FPS with elements of an RTS. Players can choose from 2 unique races, aliens and humans. Players on both teams are able to build working structures in-game like an RTS. <b>These structures provide many functions, the most important being spawning.(Point 1)</b> The designated builders must ensure there are spawn structures or other players will not be able to rejoin the game after death. Other structures provide automated base defense (to some degree), healing functions and much more...
<b>Player advancement is different depending on which team you are on. As a human, players are rewarded with credits for each alien kill. These credits may be used to purchase new weapons and upgrades from the "Armoury", a structure that must be built by a member of the human team. Credits gained can also be stored in a "bank" structure. The alien team advances quite differently. Upon killing a human foe, the alien must either store that human's vital organs for later advancement or infest the body on the spot. After a short wait the alien emerges as a new more powerful class with new functions and abilities.(Point 2)</b>
The overall objective behind Tremulous is to eliminate the opposing team. This is achieved by not only killing the opposing players but also removing their ability to respawn by destroying their spawn structures.
Point 1: Notice how resources are non existent? Instead, players are rewarded for skill. Skill is more heavily focused on, and therefore strategy pales in comparison. NS however focuses much more on strategy, with individual skill playing a small yet still significant role. How do they compare? Tremulous will be more skill orientated and "Deathmatchy" even more so then the alien side for NS.
Point 2: Notice how alien evolution and marine advancement are entirely different. The only similarity is the wait time for evolution, thats it.
In summation: Tremulous is not a "Ripoff" from NS. It is a unique mod, it falls under the FPS/RTS genre, but so does battlezone and Gloom. We should be proud that the FPS/RTS genre is expanding from it's original roots in Battlezone, so what if it's usually Aliens Vs Marines? NS does not hold copyright of aliens or marines, so any mod can use the concept it is their employment and execution that determines similarity.
In further Summation: To the people that originally thought Tremulous was a blatant ripoff, relax. We are all proud to be playing NS, we are proud of the work that the Dev's have worked long and hard to deliver to us. But we must learn not to be too proud, other mods do exist and some will parallel NS in many ways. Why? Becuase, sometimes thats the best way, or the most interesting way to do things.
I personally think that we owe the Tremulous community an apology. Why are we apologising? For badmouthing their work, for calling it a "ripoff" for thinking that NS is holier than thou.
I apologise <b>ONLY ON MY BEHALF</b> to the Tremulous community. Even if I did not make the comments myself I feel it is justly deserved.
All the "NS" textures in the shot are actually textures released by a designer whose name alas I cannot remember off hand and are available for download at his site. NS used these textures Im sure with the makers conscent and I'm sure this mod did too. These are not taken from NS.
Some decent points all around. NS was constantly being branded a ripoff of AvP and BZ and Gloom and SC and other games during its development. It's just the nature of people to do that. If people want to play some other game, so be it. It's no one's place to insult them, the same way we didn't like being insulted by fanboys of those other games.
Comments
now I am tempted to go out and get a copy of Q3 for when this comes out ;D (I love wall walking, and the increased FOV should be fun to play with)
Here is <a href='http://www.planetquake.com/teamreaction/gloom/index.htm' target='_blank'>a link to the Gloom website...</a>
Heh heh, I was thinking the EXACT same thing. Well maybe not EXACT, because I still have Q3 installed. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> The only thing I don't like about that mod so far, is the fact that the wall view orientation is in there. It gets really dizzying when moving fast.
I'll admit though - I, too, had a good seat on the bandwagon until I poked around in their website. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is definitely the right way to be thinking about something like this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
as i see it, the more FPS/RTS games we have the better, esp on a variety of games. FPS/RTS is the most creative thing i've ever seen and would be glad if a mod came out for a ton of games.. i wouldn't mind seein one on ut2k3 either!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
best game evar, its what originally got me into NS, cause playing on the 1 single server onecall 24/7 got kinda boring hehe
though this game is lookin cool too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
If anything this "call to arms" only puts the NS community in a bad light, rather than a positive one.
And for me, the more the better. If no one ripped off other games/mods, we'd have a lot fewer games to play. Q3F is a great Team Fortress game...and it rips off TF completely. Does that make it bad? Of course not.
Oh, and Team Reaction has recently started development of Q3 Gloom.
//end pimpage
1. no lag compensated hit detection so there's delay when you fire and you can't aim at where you see things coz then you will miss. you have to aim where you think the enemy will be on the server by the time your shot message reaches it bearing in mind that where you see the enemy on your computer is where they were on the server in the past.
2. dynamic lights are not added to the lightmap but multiplied to it. so if some area is dark it is treated like that area is covered by black soot and so cannot be lit, and if a room has a red light for instance and you bring a white light into it you will only make the redness brighter and will not bring any green or blue to make things more white-ish.
I play/have played NS a fair bit, but tbh i just hate halflife sooo much I dont play it much anymore. Oh yeah some retarded guy came onto a NS server and constantly played annoying band music, and we couldnt kick him without an admin, that **** me off too.
Natural Selection is a good game, and a good idea. However imo the aliens are too slow. I have beta tested Trem a fair bit, and while no way finished/near perfect by any stretch of the imagination, it has some very neat ideas and is very smooth.
Oh, you dont collect resources in trem either. Timbo has been working on Tremulous now for roughly 4 years, so i can assure you the ideas arent ripped. GLOOM FOREVAR! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
1. no lag compensated hit detection so there's delay when you fire and you can't aim at where you see things coz then you will miss. you have to aim where you think the enemy will be on the server by the time your shot message reaches it bearing in mind that where you see the enemy on your computer is where they were on the server in the past.
2. dynamic lights are not added to the lightmap but multiplied to it. so if some area is dark it is treated like that area is covered by black soot and so cannot be lit, and if a room has a red light for instance and you bring a white light into it you will only make the redness brighter and will not bring any green or blue to make things more white-ish. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the 'lag compensated thing', cl_timenudge.
In addition the lights in quake 3 look much nicer than half life. Stop comparing them, q3 wins hands down.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Tremulous for Quake 3 Arena is an open source modification that blends a team based FPS with elements of an RTS. Players can choose from 2 unique races, aliens and humans. Players on both teams are able to build working structures in-game like an RTS. <b>These structures provide many functions, the most important being spawning.(Point 1)</b> The designated builders must ensure there are spawn structures or other players will not be able to rejoin the game after death. Other structures provide automated base defense (to some degree), healing functions and much more...
<b>Player advancement is different depending on which team you are on. As a human, players are rewarded with credits for each alien kill. These credits may be used to purchase new weapons and upgrades from the "Armoury", a structure that must be built by a member of the human team. Credits gained can also be stored in a "bank" structure. The alien team advances quite differently. Upon killing a human foe, the alien must either store that human's vital organs for later advancement or infest the body on the spot. After a short wait the alien emerges as a new more powerful class with new functions and abilities.(Point 2)</b>
The overall objective behind Tremulous is to eliminate the opposing team. This is achieved by not only killing the opposing players but also removing their ability to respawn by destroying their spawn structures.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Point 1: Notice how resources are non existent? Instead, players are rewarded for skill. Skill is more heavily focused on, and therefore strategy pales in comparison. NS however focuses much more on strategy, with individual skill playing a small yet still significant role. How do they compare? Tremulous will be more skill orientated and "Deathmatchy" even more so then the alien side for NS.
Point 2: Notice how alien evolution and marine advancement are entirely different. The only similarity is the wait time for evolution, thats it.
In summation: Tremulous is not a "Ripoff" from NS. It is a unique mod, it falls under the FPS/RTS genre, but so does battlezone and Gloom. We should be proud that the FPS/RTS genre is expanding from it's original roots in Battlezone, so what if it's usually Aliens Vs Marines? NS does not hold copyright of aliens or marines, so any mod can use the concept it is their employment and execution that determines similarity.
In further Summation: To the people that originally thought Tremulous was a blatant ripoff, relax. We are all proud to be playing NS, we are proud of the work that the Dev's have worked long and hard to deliver to us. But we must learn not to be too proud, other mods do exist and some will parallel NS in many ways. Why? Becuase, sometimes thats the best way, or the most interesting way to do things.
I personally think that we owe the Tremulous community an apology. Why are we apologising? For badmouthing their work, for calling it a "ripoff" for thinking that NS is holier than thou.
I apologise <b>ONLY ON MY BEHALF</b> to the Tremulous community. Even if I did not make the comments myself I feel it is justly deserved.
Oh, and Team Reaction has recently started development of Q3 Gloom.
//end pimpage <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
?!?!
Basically, everybody cheeeel.