11th Hour

ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">re-heated</div> I've been revising ns_11th_hr for official submission. One of the areas I felt was in need of improvement was the marine start. Here's a shot of what i've done so far on the 'Oval Room'. It still doesn't have the NS feel i'm looking for. Can you give me some suggestions please.


  • RhoadsToNowhereRhoadsToNowhere i r 8 Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 33Members
    1)Add some color and shadows to the room. I'd expect those green monitors to be giving off green light, and that there would be some slight shadows on the edges of the pillars on the wall.

    2)Break up the ceiling and floor. One thing that I've seen helps with the floor is to use borders around the floor, I feel ns_eclipse does this very well. Also, perhaps a skylight or something might look cool on the ceiling, and that will give you additional cool lighting effects.

    3)You have a nice amount of detail going up the walls, how about adding some detail that goes across the walls?
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members
    i would say the same things as Rhoads. Maybe i think itll look better if it gets dark in the ceiling and some lightspots here and there.
  • JediYoshiJediYoshi The Cupcake Boss Join Date: 2002-05-27 Member: 674Members
    What does the room server as?
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    Too much of the same tan-greyish colour in those textures. The walls, the floor, and the ceiling. Perhaps blacker pillars would break it up? And a more greenish colour to the floor/ceiling would look good? It's something with that. Me thinks the architecture itself is great, it just needs to be accented by more contrasting textures perhaps. (Me hopes my wording of that last sentence makes sense...)

    Hope that helps!
  • theZennytheZenny Join Date: 2003-01-05 Member: 11857Members
    edited February 2003
    And rhoads post about the light, in my opinion it seems a little bright, and yeah a little color lights might help. I also agree with Big, needs more texture, just to drab. Also, I find the ceiling rather... boring, maybe add something like bars going across (doesnt have to let aliens up there if it would make it fair, if u know what i mean) or make it a dome, something like that.
  • HeistHeist Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7922Members
    Lower the overall lighting. To make up for it make the terminals cast faint light spots on the ground and perhaps add some small lights on the trim of every 2nd or third stair. Right now the lighting just looks a little too "where the heck did all that light come from" <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
    I do like the map however. Great mapper.
  • Merlin_the_FrogMerlin_the_Frog Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13123Members
    Hmmm. Well I could sit here and tell you what I think, but it would probably be repeating the same thing as the others. To me, the most important things are too many lights (i'd like to see close to the only lighting to be on the chair, to make the chair glow almost), too grey.....and most of all it seems to boxish. Boxish in the way that the roof and the floor don't tie into the walls at all. I also don't care for the ceiling texture....it might be ok if something like beams, pipes, cables or what not break it up. Other than that--great. Really like the map, and the changes you're making will make it that much better.
  • KnowedgeKnowedge Join Date: 2003-01-07 Member: 11977Members
    for some reason i dont like the whole feel of 11th hr, it seems like its the same room over and over again with little things change, and its real open in most spots with extremly high cealings, minimal vents and 1 gray color ;/ i dunno with little things like a few areas with tighter corridors, somewhat easier access to the hives maby if they were lower a bit, not alot, if they were in different places but there all sorta hanging off the ends of large ledges. its got some great textureing and thought put into it dong get me wrong, there just personal quarrels with the map
  • SirusSirus Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8466Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    My suggestion : The room feels too detached, break down part of the room so that is more open towards the large clock, so that its not so bottle neck. IMO, marine spawns should be almost the most open room in the map, because it favors marines, as it should.

    Also, Are there any welds in 11th hour. If not, i suggest adding a couple.
  • XHydraliskXHydralisk Join Date: 2002-07-14 Member: 945Members
    yea, tear down the wall with the lights and make another set of stairs going toward the res tower. Is it supposed to take forever to get to the res?

    Maybe even take out the ceiling and have a veiw of the outside. I forgot the backstory, but I'm sure you can work it out.

    Those wire textures that NS maps use across the ceiling would help.

    A BIG computer terminal like just outside Heras' archiving hive would fit nicely, also would block view.

    You can make the lowered part bigger and put the res on a lower elevation and have the up=enemy thing in atomicmass.
  • IdenIden Join Date: 2002-10-16 Member: 1513Members
    As less of a mapper and more of a rabid grunt/skulk fanatic I'll weigh on the room in terms of looks and functionality:

    The Marine in me says: Wooo! The most pro-marine start room I've seen yet! A CC that doesn't have to be protected seperately! Wide open spaces! Killing grounds for marines early in the game and a blood bath of "shooting fish in a barrel" syndrome for the aliens toward late game.

    The Skulk says: You want me to rush WHAT?! Forget it. I'm going to bile bomb that place from the top, or spore cloud it.

    As for the attempt mapper in me: The ceiling texture is such an ugly contrast compared to the walls and floor. It's like you left it in from something else. It almost looks like a crate texture instead. There's nice architecture on the side, too bad it doesn't help the skulks. Some on the ceiling would be nice. As for a more "NS" feel I'd suggest causing some of the lights on one wall to be pulsing. Slightly damaged look, although marine starts aren't tradittionally they usually do have the nice skulk hiding spots and cramped feel.
  • JRockJRock Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10032Members
    Hey I enjoyed playing a bit of 11th hour against some bots, but I have heard from several server admins that they do not rotate your map simply because it's very very easy for Marines to siege a couple of the hives quickly. Too easy. They say it needs to be reworked so it's not so simple and easy for Marines to rape a couple of the hives right off the bat.

    Maybe consider that as you're reworking it. Thanks.
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    RhoadsToNowhere, The monitors do give off colored light, unfortunetly this is all washed out by the pale yellow lights in that build. I have removed the yellow lights to see how it looks without them. I have added a border around the floor and i'm thinking about lowering the ceiling to just above the height of the new monitors. I don't want to put too much detail on the ceiling as this is the Marine start and ceiling detaisl can be destracting to the commander. I've added some cabling between the columns to add some horizontal details.

    Blueman, I'm being carefull not to make it too dark otherwise it will be hard to spot the attacking skulks, but yes I agrre that shot is too bright.

    JediYoshi, this rooms is an administative office, just of the main entrance to this deep undergound facility.

    BigDXLT, I've the 4MB texture limit so I can only use textures that are already in the map.

    Sirus, if the wall wasn't there aliens could shoot the CC from the vent and that is very bad news. I also wanted to encorage the aliens to attack marine resource nodes, there doesn't seem to be enough of that going on. I'm hesitant to add welds since they don't get used in most games. The last time I did use welds in this map it wrecked the gameplay.

    Iden, I've added some more cover in the T-Junction (adjoining the Oval Room) and i'm thinkng about adding a vent between the res node and the oval room. Yes the ceiling texture is nasty, i'll try and find something better.

    JRock, hopefully 1.04 will put pay to easy siegeing, I have yet to see how this balances in 1.04. Why don't the server ops ever tell me these things?

    Kilmster, that's not funny <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Another hour's worth of RAD before I can see how it looks...
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    A small update to show you where i'm at.
  • watch_me_diewatch_me_die Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8107Members
    ... now that looks about a million times better <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    - Except for that crate texture on the roof!

    Maybe have something coming down from the roof to the little monitor panels in the middle of the room.
  • Merlin_the_FrogMerlin_the_Frog Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13123Members
    I'm with watch.....much better. Roof still looks like crap though. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I think you need something on that roof to break it up and a lot nicer texture.
  • HeistHeist Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7922Members
    No faint light spots from the screens <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • RhoadsToNowhereRhoadsToNowhere i r 8 Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 33Members
    Gonna have to agree on the roof not looking great, but I really like the lighting on the command console. I think it's an excellent use of lighting to draw the player's attention to important objects in the map.
  • AxehandlerAxehandler Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12038Members
    The Piller things on the walls.... ending in lights...

    are those lights? or Monitors they end in? if lights... Put monitors on those... I think that would look good.

    as for brightness.. I think it's a bit dark in the upper 1/2 add a few lights around there might brighten it up without having the overbright effect you had before. COURSE.... screenshots are usually darker then play... so you'll have to be the judge of that <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->

  • SirusSirus Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8466Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Oh, I didn't mean the whole wall, i meant like doubling the width of the stairway. I wouldn't expect extremely widespaces, but having a small walkway is kind small for a marine spawn. Trust me, after playing NS, you want to be able to move around at least 2-3 marines at any given place. If you can't do that then things get cramped and it's an alien feasting ground. Just expand that walkway up and your good. The rest looks nice.
  • SirusSirus Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8466Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Heres what i mean, the Green line represents the expansion of the stairwell up and the red represents the new end of the wall.
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    W.M.D. , Yes i'm not finished with the roof.

    Heist, The whole room is being lit only by those monitors, the definition of the spots is higher in-game, my quasi gamma correction doesn't do it justice.

    Axehandler, Those ARE monitors in the end of the columns.

    Sirus, you can't be serious those steps are massive! Even moving the wall back that far would make the CC vulnerable to attack from outside the T-Junction room.
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    That start location is looking damn sweet, very nice work there <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Already impressed with this map and it just got better.
  • Green_MeatGreen_Meat Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7331Members
    use the parameter -texdata # on the CSG to increase the texture limit. # = size of the new texture limit in kilobytes. For example, to raise the texture limit to 6 mgs, add "-texdata 6000" to your CSG command parameters.

    BTW - Nice room!

  • ImaTargetImaTarget Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3415Members
    I guess he knows how to raise the texture limit, alas for official submission you must not use more then 4 MB. That is the problem <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Yeah, i'm going for official status, therfore i've got to stick to my 4 meg.

    I think this ceiling is about done, maybe add some small spotlights to the center section. This shot is not gamma corrected (gamma set to 1.6 in-game if you want to correct it yourself).
  • ChromeAngelChromeAngel Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Close-up on the CC and custom monitor textures.
  • EpochEpoch Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1474Members
    I would like that room a lot more if you got rid of the extra computer console thing in the middle. I would also like it a bit more if the room was brighter. All in all, it still looks good.
  • Merlin_the_FrogMerlin_the_Frog Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13123Members
    I like it with the lighting IMO. The ceiling is better now....that, ummm, outlet on the wall looks rather big and obnoxous almost. Maybe cut the vertical size down and it might look better....for me anyway. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    Forgot about the 4mb limit there.

    HUGE improvement. The up close shot of the cc really looks swell. The new ceiling... well, it's kinda hard to see... seems... maybe too bulky. (Perhaps making it a bit "thinner" would help?) Otherwise, it breaks up the flatness of the ceiling well. Nice work!
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