Cs And Ns

CEldinCEldin Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
<div class="IPBDescription">................</div> I realize that in the NS community there is a huge amount of dislike for Counter-Strike. I have still yet to unravel the mystery behind this spreading phenominon, but it just makes no sense. Currently I started playing CS again, after 3 months of NS (or however long its been out) and to be quite honest with you, I dont know why you all hate it. The skill set required for CS is particular and vast, though it lacks the venues NS has. The fun factor, and team participation are however, quite comparable.

I believe that you all have been blinded by this astounding commander feature, assuring yourselves that NS is more team play than CS because there is one guy calling the shots. This is a myth however. In CS if you are in a clan, the matches are intense and competitive, much like in an NS match. Also, saying something to a teammate like, "you CS n00b" has become commonplace. Change that, I find that while the CS llamas coming to NS are just that; llamas, that CS veterans are quite often the best on the team.

Now I dont really know what the purpose of this post was, I guess it was sort of a justification for my revived love of CS.
(please note that I am still an avid NS fan, and play frequently, probobly three times as much as CS, I'm just making an observation...plus im bored and its 10:30 at night)


  • airyKairyK Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11126Members
    cs isnt that fun, it was for a little bit. ive been playing beta 1.6 i like it but i cant play it all the time. people lameing me all the time with awps, etc. plus the game play soo repetitive. ns is starting to get repetitive but i still love it. i dont understand why soo many people like Cs in the first place.... boring games, all the same. i still play it at lans and occasionally but for a real game to play religously ? never . it just doesnt fascinate me. TFC is more fun then cs ever thought of being but NS dominates them both combined.
    still waiting for TF2 to come out......................
  • CEldinCEldin Join Date: 2002-09-16 Member: 1323Members
    yea actually, CS was my fallback from NS, I never tried TFC or any other mod so i dont know. If anyone knows a better one than NS then please tell me (PM me or something) anyway, its late; peace
  • ShadowXORShadowXOR Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10106Members
    They are both great mods and I will continue to play both.
  • MausMaus Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5599Members
    I had to stop playing CS when all my closest CS-buddies moved on to better things. I try playing it now after not doing for 4-5 months and it just feels like a bad game. Sure, it can still be fun from time to time, but really only when you're on a server with a bunch of people you know. Otherwist the chances are you'll have enough idiots on to ruin the game for you.

    The only HL mod other than NS that I'd give the time of day to is the ever-wonderful DoD, because it feels like teamwork is very necessary and it's not just the glorified team DM game CS has become.
  • Chopper_Dave1Chopper_Dave1 Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2353Members
    I happen to dislike CS because it is almost required that you join a clan to have fun in the game; and the mod is saturated in clans at this point. The average player who joins a public service will find players with a deathmatch-y rather than a team attidude, and will not experience the full potential that is what CS gameplay could be. LLamas and griefers run rampant, doing whatever they can to ruin other people's games (i.e. spamming, throwing out false information, shooting hostages, etc). Hackers come up with new ways to cheat every week, undermining the skill and team values of the game.

    I don't really think people hate CS because of the actual game, but rather because of its community. Because CS's community really, really sucks. The gameplay isnt all that bad, though I in particular am too impatient to wait every out the 5 minutes of every round after I die (there's always 2 n00bs that sit camp in opposite sides of the map and run down the clock).

    While I know there are servers with constant mod support, who autoban cheaters, llamas, etc and play relatively fairly, I just don't find CS fun. And that's all there is to it...
  • CatpokerCatpoker Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 816Members
    it because there is no teamwork in public servers in CS

    at least in SOME games of NS there are people using voice

    i guess you just have to be good enough to join a clan <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Marik_SteeleMarik_Steele To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
    Hmm...surprising how with a thread title like this, it hasn't already turned into a forest fire.

    Comparing the skill levels of players in CS to players in NS is kinda like comparing skill levels of NS voogru-server players to NS non-voogru-server players. It's different <i>types</i> of skills, but still skills.

    As for whether or not gameplay is better in CS or NS, I'm clearly biased towards NS simply because I'm better at it by nature. But it's undeniable that CS got a reputation and became popular quickly because (among other reasons) for the time it was a refreshing change, and hadn't been done before (or at least not as well).

    Think back even farther and the same can be said of the original TeamFortress for Quake--it was a very refreshing change from regular DM or team DM. Think back even farther and the same can be said for Doom, the original Wolfenstein, or other such "innovative titles" vs. the normally 2D games of the time.

    Will NS be on this list of games that was refreshing for the time, but no longer played so often? Probably. Everything does sooner or later--it's just that HL has been quite lucky in that with its mod community, it hasn't quite yet been tossed away in favor of newer games.

    Hopefully by that time HL2, TF2, or something that should be equally cool will have a good enough SDK available for Flayra to fiddle around with <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TzarconTzarcon Join Date: 2002-02-28 Member: 259Members
    Its basically the majority of players. In CS, if you join a server, What you'll see is alot of people who run out and rambo everyone, kill the entire server with their insane skills, theres alot of stupid people that play it, people that cheat to be better rambos, people who act not nice, and CS really brings it forward with its public play, because the public stuff is all dependant on rambos.

    In NS, you cant rambo, its impossible, so noone bothers to cheat, people who are stupid dont bother to play it because they cant, if you try to rambo or dont listent to other people everyone will get mad at you, in CS that doesnt happen. I realize that in Clans CS is quite organized and competitive, but in public play its different. Plus, there are alot of people that come from CS and play NS, and their response generally is "This game sucks, theres no AK-47s and you die if you walk away from the base." Because of this there is general dislike towards CS players and stereotypes
  • FlickerFlicker Join Date: 2003-01-24 Member: 12694Members
    <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Are you feeling ok? Even on publics NS servers theres more team play then like.. well any mod I've ever played.. and I think I've played most. (that are built off the halflife engine anyway) Accept in Clan matches I'll give you that.
    The fun facter; I think most people will find in NS is much more fun then CS. Mainly because CS is repetitive.. You have the same objective everygame on every map. With NS you may be assulting a marine mini-base or an Alien outpost or just taking out a RT. Theres stratigy involved more so then point and shoot. In CS you shoot people. Over and over. Its team death match. Most people play like there is no objectives.. the bomb is planted in like.. 1 in 20 games. The hosties are Rescued in 1 in 20 games. In NS you cant just go death match.. well you could but you wouldnt get anywhere. Even the aliens work as a team and they're more DM oriented. There is the odd server that a team is dissorganized but thats mostly because the players are new. NS doesnt have any vetrens yet. I think we've only begun to see NS for what it is and I expect soon as the mods community grows we'll see newer more complex stratigys and team play taking place. Bottom line, in my eyes anyway... NS has way more to offer potential players then CS will ever have, accept maybe in the area of boring repetitive play. I've played $5 side scrollers that have entertained me more.
  • JusticeBladeJusticeBlade Join Date: 2002-12-23 Member: 11440Members
    Really CS can be fun. But the way I look at the CS and NS comparison is like CS trained my skills to expect the unexpected. Ambushes, grenade placement, jumping and teamwork, I all got from playing CS.

    I can apply those skills in any FPS now. Thus gives me a head start on anyone who has never played NS before. CS is the training block for non-deathmatch type games.

    NS is an innovative idea which has become a great and supportive, both in game and community. But better to be lame in CS then NS right?

    CS is a filter, gets out the good players, keeps the bad. In that way I respect it and honor it for training me. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MutantMFMMutantMFM Join Date: 2002-07-27 Member: 1005Members
    I used to play Cs but it got boring and annoying with the cheaters and mygots. They annoy the crap out of me when ever one joins a server I can tell that there will be some trouble. Like him cheating, spamming, acting like a idiot, or accusing good players of cheating. Of course not all Cs players are like this but alot of them are. :/
  • PseudoKnightPseudoKnight Join Date: 2002-06-18 Member: 791Members
    Those who hate CS seem to be playing at all the bad servers. Find a good server with cool people and it's a blast.
  • ShadowXORShadowXOR Join Date: 2002-11-27 Member: 10106Members
    edited January 2003
    CS also taught me how to aim, conserve bullets, and burst. Everything before it was deathmatch where I ran screaming with my balls flopping around unloading my mini-gun.

    CS taught me a lot that I can use in other games. It is still a great game, they have not ruined it. They have only ruined it for those who don't like it, or those who like to complain no matter what.

    If you don't like it congrats, but all the CS flaming is just immature.

    But I really don't care either way. I will continue to play CS and NS, and I'm sure both of them will continue to grow, and have great patches.
  • IdenIden Join Date: 2002-10-16 Member: 1513Members
    Can't we all just get along?

    If I want quick mindless painless violence I'll start up some pwnage on a dustworld server, or aztec or anything CS related really.

    CS, in a good enviroment is just as good as NS. "Move in groups", "shoot the other person", "Use weapons that support each other", and "Flank" are all valid bits that make up most of both games.

    I'll keep playing CS, NS and any other thing that ends with "S" <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Cry_HavocCry_Havoc Join Date: 2003-01-22 Member: 12593Members
    You should play TFC.

    <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • FantasmoFantasmo Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7369Members
    I agree with JB.

    CS was the first FPS I went nuts over. I discovered it at Beta 6.0 played to death and by v1.0 my interest dropped off for that type of game entirely and I went into more serious teamplay games like Rainbow Six and then eventually Rouge Spear.

    The point is CS introduced me to all the basic elements of a FPS and even certain elements of teamplay. Although now I couldn't call CS a serious teamplay FPS it was that HL Mod that really got me thirsting for a tighter, more involving teamplay FPS. It has lead me right back to a HL Mod we all adore called Natural Selection.

    I admit it without shame, I loved CS and it was never really the people or the lack of teamplay that drove me away.

    I played it, I loved it, and then I lost interest in it.

    I'm not bitter or hateful, I had good times there and now I have good times here.

    Good times, I'll drink to that!

    <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • FirewaterFirewater Balance Expert Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10690Members, Constellation
    I played hardcore CS, i've played in many CAL main clans, and 1 CAL I clan. Organized CS is a lot of fun, it taught me a lot about how to compete and deal with pressure in game. CS helped me develop nerves of steel so that i'm not nervous if i'm needed to kill in a clutch situation. CS taught me proper use of sound, and when to react and how to react to certain situations. CS taught me professionalism in a video game, and to help those that are not as talented, to give them some confidence and not bash them if they make a mistake (cept for ackz he's a stupid canadian). CS developed my reflexes to the point where I can prefire and have an educated guess of where an enemy because of a single sound they made.

    The most CS taught me was to trust my teammates, learn their strengths and weaknesses, and to develop as a team.

    But yer right, CS is for newbs, requires no teamplay.
  • ComproxComprox *chortle* Canada Join Date: 2002-01-23 Member: 7Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    And I think all of you displayed while many people gravitate to NS over CS. If this kind of post was put on <b>any</b> other mod forum, it would be hotter than heck before the server even parsed the posters data. Eveyr post has been intelligent and thoughtful pointing out some new and some old points. Not a single swear has been brought up here. For that, I thank you kindly <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Shadow_HunterShadow_Hunter Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12132Members
    Well, I will have to say I don't like CS. At least not online. On LAN, it can be fun, but I don't enjoy playing on pubs. And before someone flames and say "OMG, you stupid n00b!!!, yeah, I've only been playing HL and mods for a few months. But I get wasted much worse playing LAN with the guys I play with than I do online. The few times when I have been on good servers, without everyone yelling "WTF! ****in n00b shot me!" , "1m u l33t H4x0r", etc., sniping across the map and through walls, and all like that, its pretty cool. But in general, the community sucks. It sucks hard. I have encounterd few people outside of my friends that are willing to help a newcomer, let alone work as a team. I think thats pretty funny, seeing as how we're all newbs at some point, and we all need some help when we start. Luckily, through some help and getting shot up a lot on NS and DoD servers (and reading the manuals) I've managed to become a pretty good player, and am working on getting better. I've gotten pretty good at CS too, but playing isn't as much fun for me. Not flaming it, not hating it, just don't think its that much fun. If I want to blast away (know I'm gonna get flamed for this one, but its a great game so I don't care), I'll go put Goldeneye in my 64 and kill some Russian guards.
  • FoggyFoggy Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9620Members
    CS SUX0RZ!!!!!1

    Seriously, it's not a bad game. There's a reason there's about 70,000 people on at any given time. Skill is definitely a factor, even with the "lame" guns, like the AWP, deagle, etc.

    It's not so much the hacking that bothers me as much as the 1337sp33k and preteens that have nothing better to do than shoot their teammates. Fortunately, these people are thinning out. Seriously.
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    !&*#$ Greedo! :P j/k

    I agree w/ greedo about the maturity of the community. kudos for that.

    As for the topic, I've never liked CS myself. It just doesn't fit my personal style of game. I have given it an honest try, including a time when I played it for about a week. But I've never been able to have fun in it.

    That being said, I have a great amount of respect for the mod and for the team that developed it. It cannot be stated enough how much of a shift in the balance of the game world CS caused when it, a lowly mod created by a guy in his spare time, became the most played game in the entire world. I also respect it from an artistic perspective. Also, while I don't know Minh (Gooseman), I've heard he is really a good guy. Heck, for FLF he uploaded around 70mb of gun-related WAV files straight to my hard drive from his library that he has, letting us use what we wanted (even if they were already in CS, as a few were) for FLF.

    Now as for why everybody loves to hate CS: I boil it down to what I call "#1 Syndrome". Its the same reason why everybody hates Wal-Mart, nVidia, McDonald's, and Dell. When companies (or countries/groups/anything) are ahead of their competition, people seem to reflect soley on the down points of that company, disregarding the good things (be they economical, manufacor-al, or moral) that put them in the #1 spot to begin with. Plus everybody loves to root for the underdog. I suppose it may also give some people a "fight the power" feeling.

    Most people probably hate CS simply because its #1, or because its popular to hate it, or because they aren't aware of alternatives to it.
  • FoggyFoggy Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9620Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--DOOManiac+Jan 24 2003, 10:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Jan 24 2003, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its the same reason why everybody hates Wal-Mart, nVidia, McDonald's, and Dell.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    How in God's name did you leave out Microsoft.
  • Shadow_HunterShadow_Hunter Join Date: 2003-01-10 Member: 12132Members
    Good question. But thats understandable, since Bill Gates is the anti-Christ. The only thing standing between him and world domination is the blue screen of death he can't seem to defeat.
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    actually I forgot Microsoft. From a financial point of view, they have done good. Except to their shareholders, what with their "har har we don't give dividends" policy ;)
  • VecdranVecdran Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2323Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--PseudoKnight+Jan 25 2003, 04:50 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PseudoKnight @ Jan 25 2003, 04:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Those who hate CS seem to be playing at all the bad servers. Find a good server with cool people and it's a blast.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So true.

    I still play CS. I have a server that I've been a regular on for two years, where I've met 80% of the players at a LAN, and has skilled players with a friendly atmoshpere. It's FUN.
  • redeemed_darknessredeemed_darkness Join Date: 2003-01-21 Member: 12565Members
    I think he left out Microsoft because they are too evil that they are in the league of their own <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Back to the topic I never really mush got hyped up about CS like every one else at LANs I go their play it (because every one their was a CS loving freak seriously that was all they played at the big LAN meets) at the end of the LAN delete it.
    Last year went back to playing quake (hehe don't ask me how i convinced them)that was classic fun
    Simple tactic rocket + armor = ownage
  • airyKairyK Join Date: 2002-12-19 Member: 11126Members
    adding to my last post, i dont dislike cs that much, its more of i cant stand playing it anymore. i never really did before, loses my interest fast. heck, i didnt like RTS games til i played wc3 - cs is great at lans but horrible when everyone is screaming where everyone is on the other team lol, funny though. to anyone that has never played TFC, go play it! second best mod i played for halflife- i played it regularly for almost 3 years *great years---- i remember so many updates there were. probaly wouldnt make sense to a new commer to Halflife-
  • ImmacolataImmacolata Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2140Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--Chopper Dave+Jan 25 2003, 04:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chopper Dave @ Jan 25 2003, 04:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't really think people hate CS because of the actual game, but rather because of its community. Because CS's community really, really sucks. The gameplay isnt all that bad, though I in particular am too impatient to wait every out the 5 minutes of every round after I die (there's always 2 n00bs that sit camp in opposite sides of the map and run down the clock).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thats my reason as well. There's a big operator here who runs some 40 CS servers. Many of those are played by net cafe guests. I don't know if this mix of net cafe boyos and the home crowd with too much bandwidth makes it extra annoying, but sheeez! The evil stinking attitude prevailing everywhere really put me off. People constantly talking smack to each other etc. I just got fed up with it and left the cesspool community of CS for good. However good a mod, it BREEDS punk arsed attitudes into folks due to it's design. Super skills, time outs etc. I am still amazed how well team players people have learned to be in the 3 months NS has been out.
  • InjuryInjury Mahou Shoujo Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7992Banned
    I don't hate Counter-Strike myself, though I've stopped playing it after .63 because I got bored of it. I've seen my roomates playing it and sat on a few games myself in the 1.0 era. It just wasn't the same, I guess.

    In game, I've honestly never heard anyone say "CS n00b" or any variation of that sort. So I can't say I've heard bad things about CS in game, though the forums tell a different story sometimes - to beat a dead horse - and its not always reflective of the community as a whole. Now that its 2:00 in the morning, I seem to have lost track of the point of this post so I'll just stop typing now.
  • CronosCronos Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1542Members
    I was never one for CS, it's alright, but unless you actually know the people you play with, it's not worth playing. I play CS from time to time with friends. SI was very good, I liked it a lot, sad that there arent many servers around. HLDM was alright, but mindless killing dosent impress me all that much, there has to be a point. DOD and TOD I'm proficient in, I'm usually in the top one third of players, if not at the top, they have a good leaning to teamplay. TFC I dabbled in for a bit, but it didnt hook me all that well. AHL put me off after five minutes of play. Urban Terror for Q3 is in all essentiality a backwards version of CS, only with more ragged restrictions and hundreds of bugs. UT was alright, but too bandwidth hungry and repetetive, almost no conversations at all in game and it just got dull after a while. Sven Coop I liked quite a bit, not a lot of servers though, WHL is very nice with lots of atmosphere, but it too suffers from a lack of servers to play on. I liked opera, but it didnt hook me.

    After much searching, I found that being a rogue trying to bomb targets or stop the bombing of targets and saving hostages, was not for me, neither was the great battlefields of two different wars. Slaughtering for the appeasement of the masses was dull and boring, while protecting my flag in a battered fortress failed to capture my imagination, neither could a futuristic tournament. Working together with others to accomplish missions was nice for a while, but the pay was lousy. I've been through my fair share of nuclear wars as well, but only blasting aliens into so much green pulp and destroying hives has this rogue wanderer, completely and utterly captured...
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