A Note to Our Linux Users - Natural Selection 2

SystemSystem Join Date: 2013-01-29 Member: 182599Members, Super Administrators, Reinforced - Diamond
edited September 2019 in NS2 General Discussion

imageA Note to Our Linux Users - Natural Selection 2

With the upcoming release of patch 329, we will officially be ending our support for the Linux client of Natural Selection 2. It has become increasingly more difficult to support...

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Comments

  • WasabiOneWasabiOne Co-Lead NS2 CDT Join Date: 2011-06-15 Member: 104623Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
  • GaidinTSGaidinTS Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19319Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    You guys are actively making so many changes to the engine that you can no longer support linux? Surely changes in lua have no impact between OS's. This is really disappointing.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    This is sad. Surely the community will find a way to keep it functioning.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Random things can easily break between builds, often in mysterious ways. If QA can't be assured between builds, it's easier to drop official support even if there is no discernable problems
  • rkfgrkfg Russia Join Date: 2013-09-03 Member: 187744Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Well, this is sad but understandable. The game works since Wine 4.14 and the current Proton has 4.11 so it won't work out of the box. You can find some more info about performance and current issues in the comments on Gaming on Linux.
  • HolodoctorHolodoctor Join Date: 2009-05-28 Member: 67526Members
    Those are sad news. I enjoyed Natural Selection and Natural Selection 2 immensely over the years and have been following the development of NS2 since the very beginning.

    It has always been a special community.

    Is there any way in which the community (e.g. I) could take over the maintenance of the port?
    While I might test the performance in Wine, I guess it is more likely that this will be my farewell to NS2.
  • PikumPikum Indiana, USA Join Date: 2014-05-18 Member: 196104Members
    This is embarrassing.
  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Members, Constellation
    NS2 Linux was part of why I finally left Windows behind. I'm hopeful I can play it under Proton at some point, but this is definitely sad news for me.
  • mintehminteh Join Date: 2012-05-01 Member: 151389Members, Reinforced - Diamond
    NS2 was also my game of choice when moving to Linux from Windows. I hope other developers don't do this. Proton is becoming a double-edged sword :(.
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    edited September 2019
    As a Linux desktop user this is sad but understandable.
    With between 150 and 350 players per https://steamcharts.com/app/4920 this is a niche game.
    Now take the 1% of that and you have the Linux players.
    Supporting Linux is not feasible with these numbers.
    Will give it a go again with Proton with patch 329.

    Edit: gave current build (328) a go via Proton, appears to crash, how do I get in contact with playtesters/devs?
    I've left a report at: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/2234#issuecomment-531560211

    Edit2: fixed itself, disregard
  • Paradox55Paradox55 Join Date: 2019-09-14 Member: 254712Members
    edited September 2019
    As one of the original beta testers back in 2012 this is disappointing but understandable given the small userbase. As long as one of the two options above works no hard feeling from me.

    Can the devs here commit to keeping the proton version working? IE won't add an anticheat that causes the game to not run?

    And if not can you confirm VFIO passthrough via KVM won't lead to bans?
  • hadacehadace Join Date: 2018-02-18 Member: 237869Members
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    another nail in the coffin of NS2 :(
  • FoxyFoxy United Kingdom Join Date: 2014-08-19 Member: 198032Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    This isn't unheard of - Facepunch is pretty huge and they've dropped Linux support for Rust https://rust.facepunch.com/blog/updated-linux-plans

    Offering refunds is right and proper and I'm glad to see UWE doing so.
  • gameofshipsgameofships Join Date: 2019-09-19 Member: 254758Members
    edited September 2019
    "Now take the 1% of that and you have the Linux players"

    It's funny to see people say that yet every time Linux is mentioned it seems like the comments never reflect that number. If it 'just works' with proton, that's fine with me.
  • antsinpantsantsinpants Join Date: 2016-02-23 Member: 213367Members
    I feel cheated and dissapointed. This was one of the best native games available on Linux. I used to respond to my friends saying that there are no games on Linux that actually there are some great games like NS2. And now there is no NS2. No, I'm not going to play via Steam Play, firstly because this forces me to upgrade my video card and also because it's still in beta.
  • PavePave Finland Join Date: 2013-11-08 Member: 189187Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    ---
    Whatever operative-system (or pretty much anything) people choose to use that is simply their choice alone.

    But it is fair to mention that during past +7-seven years things have changed quite dramatically:
    Most importantly that Windows 10 can be gotten as a semi-unlimited shareware with all the support from Microsoft without any time limits unlike before
    ( pretty much the only downsides are the ("floating") watermark at the down-right-corner of the monitor and unable to change the cosmetic-things of the desktop like the wallpaper and colours. This alone pushed down the number of Linux-users especially due the huge amount of decreased "I cannot afford buying this"-folks being able to jump (back) into the Windows-environments without extra mandatory-costs.

    Now I for one also am all for alternatives and other choices.
    But realistically speaking I personally rather have a well functioning software in general rather than having shoddy-versions on several platforms.
    And in this case dropping the native-support for the Linux-version of "Natural Selection 2" seemed like a realistic choice especially if it helped making the product far more better than ever by releasing the development-resources to concentrate on the Windows-version.

    (( And before anyone throws snarky-comments like:
    "Well, that means you Pave have been lying about the importance of cross-platform-support then, right?"
    I'd say it's a quite a huge difference when you have a big dedicated company/enterprise behind the development of the coding-environments in comparison to (unlikely) having a dedicated coding-group of volunteers.
    As in, the developers of Playstation, Nintendo, and Xbox / Windows have their money in the line whereas majority of the Linux and other (majority of freeware/charity) OpenSource-things don't have have their livelihood-income in the line.
    That being said, as much I like as many of thing as possible to be "inclusive"
    ( I.E. everyone having access to things )
    sometimes it simply is not feasible for most likely very pragmatic-reasons. ))

    ---
    ---
  • ikirikir Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
    Sad to see, I was super exited for macOS version that never materialized
  • theflockerstheflockers Join Date: 2020-03-17 Member: 258875Members
    Just saw this. I am very sad about that. Linux users are always considered the shit of the shit. We Linux users will never be taken at serious.
  • rea987rea987 Germany Join Date: 2014-01-02 Member: 191467Members
    Dear Unknown Worlds Entertainment developers,

    Sorry for the necromancy but I didn't want to create a new thread just for this particular issue. I paste the post that I sent to
    Steam Community forums 2 weeks ago;

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/4920/discussions/1/2994296961836681550/

    linux branch returnes missing executable error:

    Greetings,

    For those who want to remind me that Linux support was dropped, I am aware of that.

    I am also aware of developers created [linux] branch which is no longer supported or compatible with up-to-date servers, yet was functional. Currently, when I install and launch [linux] branch of NS2, Steam returns missing executable error that points ns2.exe. I believe that is a launch config error that is looking for Windows executable even though Linux executable is present.

    Terminal output:
    ExecuteSteamURL: "steam://rungameid/4920"
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp changed task to DownloadingDepots with ""
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp changed task to DownloadingDepots with ""
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp changed task to ProcessingInstallScript with ""
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp changed task to SynchronizingCloud with ""
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp changed task to SiteLicenseSeatCheckout with ""
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp changed task to CreatingProcess with ""
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp waiting for user response to CreatingProcess ""
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp continues with user response "CreatingProcess"
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp failed with AppError_28 with "~/.local/share/Steam/steamapps/common/Natural Selection 2/x64/ns2.exe"
    GameAction [AppID 4920, ActionID 7] : LaunchApp changed task to Failed with ""
    

    Directly attempting to launch to Linux binary results lack of running Steam client fatal error despite the fact Steam is already running;
    $ LC_ALL=C ./ns2_linux
    Forking(9899) crash handler process
    BEGIN(9899) Forked crash handler process
    BEGIN(9900) Forked main process
    GetInstanceCount currently unimplemented
    GetInstanceCount currently unimplemented
    Starting crash handler server
    Crash handler Server started successfully
    [  0.003] Unbound/Unknown : Filesystem initialized, cache enabled
    Build 328.100
    Linux x86_64
    [S_API FAIL] SteamAPI_Init() failed; no appID found.
    Either launch the game from Steam, or put the file steam_appid.txt containing the correct appID in your game folder.
    [S_API FAIL] SteamAPI_Init() failed; no appID found.
    Either launch the game from Steam, or put the file steam_appid.txt containing the correct appID in your game folder.
    [S_API FAIL] SteamAPI_Init() failed; no appID found.
    Either launch the game from Steam, or put the file steam_appid.txt containing the correct appID in your game folder.
    [  0.187] MainThread : Error: Steam must be running to play Natural Selection 2
    

    Unknown Worlds, can you please fix this issue? I would like to try the old Linux native version once again. Thank you!
  • rea987rea987 Germany Join Date: 2014-01-02 Member: 191467Members
    rea987 wrote: »
    Currently, when I install and launch [linux] branch of NS2, Steam returns missing executable error that points ns2.exe. I believe that is a launch config error that is looking for Windows executable even though Linux executable is present.

    It looks like the update/change on launch config in 10th December 2020 broke the launch for [linux] branch. Can this be reverted back? Thank you!

    https://steamdb.info/app/4920/history/?changeid=10234342
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    Pave wrote: »
    ---
    Whatever operative-system (or pretty much anything) people choose to use that is simply their choice alone.

    But it is fair to mention that during past +7-seven years things have changed quite dramatically:
    Most importantly that Windows 10 can be gotten as a semi-unlimited shareware with all the support from Microsoft without any time limits unlike before
    ( pretty much the only downsides are the ("floating") watermark at the down-right-corner of the monitor and unable to change the cosmetic-things of the desktop like the wallpaper and colours. This alone pushed down the number of Linux-users especially due the huge amount of decreased "I cannot afford buying this"-folks being able to jump (back) into the Windows-environments without extra mandatory-costs.

    Now I for one also am all for alternatives and other choices.
    But realistically speaking I personally rather have a well functioning software in general rather than having shoddy-versions on several platforms.
    And in this case dropping the native-support for the Linux-version of "Natural Selection 2" seemed like a realistic choice especially if it helped making the product far more better than ever by releasing the development-resources to concentrate on the Windows-version.

    (( And before anyone throws snarky-comments like:
    "Well, that means you Pave have been lying about the importance of cross-platform-support then, right?"
    I'd say it's a quite a huge difference when you have a big dedicated company/enterprise behind the development of the coding-environments in comparison to (unlikely) having a dedicated coding-group of volunteers.
    As in, the developers of Playstation, Nintendo, and Xbox / Windows have their money in the line whereas majority of the Linux and other (majority of freeware/charity) OpenSource-things don't have have their livelihood-income in the line.
    That being said, as much I like as many of thing as possible to be "inclusive"
    ( I.E. everyone having access to things )
    sometimes it simply is not feasible for most likely very pragmatic-reasons. ))

    ---
    ---

    Everyone must pick their battles, that's fair enough. And I also would rather have a functioning game on a single platform, than a shoddy one on some.

    The only problem is that at the time we bought the game, you've advertised it as Linux ready. I've been playing with it on Debian for around 2 years, when it stopped working after an update. (then that got fixed, but something else broke later on, and on) At that time, and even several months after it, the Steam page still listed it as Linux compatible. The only reason I've bought another SSD and set up a W10 boot was to play NS2.

    I think our disappointment is valid, since we did pay for a specifically advertised product, which UWE rolled back without any compensation.
    If I had payed for a Mercedes with electric drive, I'd be fippin furious if they delievered one with a gasoline engine - even though it's more convenient and widespread (as of now).
  • freakofnaturefreakofnature Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9624Members, Constellation
    Can we fully remove linux support? Right now its some half-baked broken linux version when I go to install it. I should be able to install this using Proton. I tried to install it but it complains that ns.exe is missing, because it installed ns2_linux which doesn't work.
  • freakofnaturefreakofnature Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9624Members, Constellation
    edited February 21
    Nevermind, I was able to force it into compatibility mode and it installed the windows version.
  • rea987rea987 Germany Join Date: 2014-01-02 Member: 191467Members
    rea987 wrote: »
    Dear Unknown Worlds Entertainment developers,

    Sorry for the necromancy but I didn't want to create a new thread just for this particular issue. I paste the post that I sent to
    Steam Community forums 2 weeks ago;

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/4920/discussions/1/2994296961836681550/

    linux branch returnes missing executable error:

    Greetings,

    For those who want to remind me that Linux support was dropped, I am aware of that.

    I am also aware of developers created [linux] branch which is no longer supported or compatible with up-to-date servers, yet was functional. Currently, when I install and launch [linux] branch of NS2, Steam returns missing executable error that points ns2.exe. I believe that is a launch config error that is looking for Windows executable even though Linux executable is present.

    Found the solution;

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/4920/discussions/1/2994296961836681550/#c3095635055519108938

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