Intel users, prepare for a 5-30 % slow down (NOT microcode fixable) [thread merge]

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  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2018
    That is the other half of Googles plan. Release spectre once they are the only ones who have safe hardware. Taking the x86 market from Intel is not even the end game. By taking the x86 market, and having the only safe hardware they can literally monopolize the internet. Once they monopolize the internet they can control nearly all information flow. This control will allow them to begin the process of creating Ray Kurzweil's singularity and trancend the human existence. Google is skynet.

    Wake up sheeple.
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    This is all an elaborate plan by Google to sabotage Intel so that Alphabet can join and then dominate the x86 cpu market.

    But... But, Google's motto is "Don't be evil", they promised :open_mouth:

    You are showing the brilliance of their motto. Google can claim that it is not evil because their monopoly of the internet is for the greatest good. The scary part is that they believe it. Skynet is of course the greatest good if you are skynet. Google is skynet. Google is the greatest good. That is why they have two G's in their name.
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members
    Nordic wrote: »
    Skynet is of course the greatest good if you are skynet. Google is skynet. Google is the greatest good. That is why they have two G's in their name.

    Just playing the devil's (google's?) advocate here, we currently argue that the human experience is the most precious thing in the universe (because of the complexity of our brain thus the range of experiences we can encounter), so if we create a more complex "being", who are we to say we dont deserve to be treated like cattle? :D

    BTW, kernel devs had more info apparently.
    All hail Spectre!
    https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/patch-spectre-vulnerability-cve-2017-5753-cve-2017-5715-linux/
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Google hasn't been not evil in a long, long time.

    Also good thing I recently switched to a password manager and 40 digit long random passwords, I guess...
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Soooooo, here's one for you all.


    Are they implying, these professional underground hackers never knew about this leak for all these years since the first i-Cores or pray-tell the first Core2's
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    Updated OP with Spectre and TechPowerUp article (read the comments from Linus Torvalds, creator of Linux, at the end).
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Soooooo, here's one for you all.


    Are they implying, these professional underground hackers never knew about this leak for all these years since the first i-Cores or pray-tell the first Core2's

    Or any processor ever over the last two decades with Spectre?

    Theory: they're both flaws introduced by NSA operatives who infiltrated the tech companies (yeah, pretty sure that actually happens, it's not tinfoil hat stuff any more).
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    AMD says risk for their processors from Spectre's two attacks is "zero, and almost zero" because of the way their processors are designed: - we'll see :


    https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Soooooo, here's one for you all.


    Are they implying, these professional underground hackers never knew about this leak for all these years since the first i-Cores or pray-tell the first Core2's

    Or any processor ever over the last two decades with Spectre?

    Theory: they're both flaws introduced by NSA operatives who infiltrated the tech companies (yeah, pretty sure that actually happens, it's not tinfoil hat stuff any more).

    I mean, I don't think they do a lot of infiltrating. They don't have to. They politely knock on the front door and ask and then the tech companies do what is asked of them.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Vetinari wrote: »
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Soooooo, here's one for you all.


    Are they implying, these professional underground hackers never knew about this leak for all these years since the first i-Cores or pray-tell the first Core2's

    Or any processor ever over the last two decades with Spectre?

    Theory: they're both flaws introduced by NSA operatives who infiltrated the tech companies (yeah, pretty sure that actually happens, it's not tinfoil hat stuff any more).

    I mean, I don't think they do a lot of infiltrating. They don't have to. They politely knock on the front door and ask and then the tech companies do what is asked of them.

    And then get a gag order to prevent them from telling anybody about it.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    These exploits are subtle enough that I'm pretty confident there's no foul play involved. They are extremely clever.

    Here's roughly the gist. If you have some code like "if (x) { y }" Then processors will sometime execute y even if x is false. They do this because x can sometimes take a long time to check (for instance, if it requires accessing main memory.) If x finally comes back as false, the processor rewinds its state to before it started executing y.

    The trick here is that the processor doesn't rewind all of its state. There are several levels of caches between the processor and memory, and if the code in y accesses memory, the effect on the caches persists after the processor state is rewound. Later on, using the time it takes to access different chunks of memory, you can determine which blocks of memory were loaded into the cache while executing y.

    The trick that makes this an exploit is that while y is being executed, a lot of the normal checks on valid memory accesses aren't applied. They delay those checks until they are confident that x is true, and that y will be executed for real, so the code in y can temporarily do things that it otherwise wouldn't be allowed to do (like in intel's case, access kernel memory.) Since the processor state is rewound, these checks seem superficially safe to delay. However, because the cache state persists, this lets the malicious code leak information out even though it never actually executed "for real."
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    0x6A7232 wrote: »

    Is that so? I will also claim my i5 2500K isn't affected! That's how it work right \o/
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members
    edited January 2018
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Well at least my phone has no problems with it's Qualcomm Snapdragon 650 running Android MIUI
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    But what about GPUs?
    Im glad nobody asked. (ok more serious, lets read on)

    From nvidia:
    CVE-2017-5753
    1975134
    Computer systems
    with microprocessors utilizing
    speculative execution and branch prediction may allow
    unauthorized disclosure of info
    rmation to an attacker with
    local user access via
    a side-channel analysis.
    For more information on this issue, see the
    NVIDIA GPU
    security updates fo
    r speculative side
    channel Security
    Bulletin
    posted on the
    NVIDIA Product Security
    page

    I didnt find any on AMD, but I didnt look hard.
    So update your GPU drivers people!
  • tschumanntschumann Australia Join Date: 2010-05-26 Member: 71862Members
    But what about GPUs?
    Im glad nobody asked. (ok more serious, lets read on)

    I'm surprised this isn't getting more publicity.
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