screwed up

ForgererForgerer Join Date: 2016-10-31 Member: 223544Members
Did they ever screw this game up that phrase. "If it ain't broke don't fix it." Applies here.
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members
    edited October 2017
    It ain't broke ... That phrase ...

    So fix it ... They didn't need to.

    When?

    71pv02zj36ap.jpg

  • AkuMasterofMastersAkuMasterofMasters Join Date: 2017-09-10 Member: 232934Members
  • ForgererForgerer Join Date: 2016-10-31 Member: 223544Members
    Well when you need lead to make thinks like foundations yeah it is a wtf I mean are we worried about radioactive foundations? Then silver becomes a badly need recourse and it is now really scarce, and getting tired of crash fish blowing up in my face...that is my WAH for the day.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited October 2017
    I feel like we walked in midway on a conversation and no have no idea what you're going on about...
    Step 1: Make a point
    Step 2: Talk about step 1
    Step 3: The discussion starts
    Step 4: ???
    Step 5: Profit
  • AkuMasterofMastersAkuMasterofMasters Join Date: 2017-09-10 Member: 232934Members
    Forgerer wrote: »
    Well when you need lead to make thinks like foundations yeah it is a wtf I mean are we worried about radioactive foundations? Then silver becomes a badly need recourse and it is now really scarce, and getting tired of crash fish blowing up in my face...that is my WAH for the day.

    Yeah the lead really doesn't make sense, along with.......WHY DO WE NEED AN ADVANCED WIRING KIT FOR A BUILDER?! How does the builder tool, require the smae electrical components of a FREAKING CYCLOPS????
  • Hulkie2345Hulkie2345 New York Join Date: 2017-08-23 Member: 232598Members
    I think people need to get out of the mind set of rational recipe making in Sub. The cyclops can create Power Cells from nothing after all. Really focus on the balance of finding resources and power requirements. With the Quartz being restricted it to caves. The Bio reactor is now useful. But how do you deal with the Water filtration system? You'd need like 6 to keep your base online.
  • JackeJacke Calgary Join Date: 2017-03-20 Member: 229061Members
    edited October 2017
    We've been hashing out these blueprint changes and other issues in another topic. I hardly would say the changes have broke Subnautica.

    UWE obviously had their reasons for doing so. And although they've increased some of the tedium and the challenge, it's no worse than it has been in the past and in many ways better than before. I for one welcome more uses for many mats and especially for Advanced Materials. Gives depth to the game. Makes those Exterior Growbeds with Deep Shrooms and Blood Kelp more useful.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Hulkie2345 wrote: »
    I think people need to get out of the mind set of rational recipe making in Sub. The cyclops can create Power Cells from nothing after all. Really focus on the balance of finding resources and power requirements. With the Quartz being restricted it to caves. The Bio reactor is now useful. But how do you deal with the Water filtration system? You'd need like 6 to keep your base online.

    I tried the tried and true NS2 "nanites" excuse in these here Subnautica forums once, what with Alterra tech being the monopoly supplier of stuffs...


    Didn't work
  • kingkumakingkuma cancels Work: distracted by Dwarf Fortress Join Date: 2015-09-25 Member: 208137Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Hulkie2345 wrote: »
    I think people need to get out of the mind set of rational recipe making in Sub. The cyclops can create Power Cells from nothing after all. Really focus on the balance of finding resources and power requirements. With the Quartz being restricted it to caves. The Bio reactor is now useful. But how do you deal with the Water filtration system? You'd need like 6 to keep your base online.

    I tried the tried and true NS2 "nanites" excuse in these here Subnautica forums once, what with Alterra tech being the monopoly supplier of stuffs...


    Didn't work

    Please explain. The only nanites I know are the confusion - inducing nanobots from Terriria
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited October 2017
    kingkuma wrote: »
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Hulkie2345 wrote: »
    I think people need to get out of the mind set of rational recipe making in Sub. The cyclops can create Power Cells from nothing after all. Really focus on the balance of finding resources and power requirements. With the Quartz being restricted it to caves. The Bio reactor is now useful. But how do you deal with the Water filtration system? You'd need like 6 to keep your base online.

    I tried the tried and true NS2 "nanites" excuse in these here Subnautica forums once, what with Alterra tech being the monopoly supplier of stuffs...


    Didn't work

    Please explain. The only nanites I know are the confusion - inducing nanobots from Terriria

    "Nanites" explain everything in Natural Selection, stuff that's not clear as to how it works. The answer is always "nanites"

    NS is basically the battle between nanites and bacteria, the marines and aliens are just there for eyecandy :tongue:

    In the beginning of the war, the TSF could phase stuff basically anywhere onto the battlefield, but the bacterium eventually adapted and started to infest beyond just their Hives and also learned how to disable the nanogrid. The marines use the integrated nanogrid to phase in their equipment, while the Kharaa bacterium tries to overwhelm, infect and eventually disable the nanites and as such cause a nanogrid lock.

    This is the reason why marines currently have trouble phasing in structures in infested areas. Smaller stuff like ammo, medkits and catpacks can still be phased in, but that's about it. In the world of NS2, they introduced the powernodes to try secure the nanogrid. This worked for a short while, stopping the infestation in it's tracks. But the Kharaa (them NS2 devs) eventually adapted to that as well and now we're back at infested areas causing nanogrid issues And because of this technology addition, the marines now have another issue.

    Their structures are completely reliant on an active powernode for their power and nanigrid defense field. Even uninfested areas still require a powernode for their tech to work, just because of the mere presence of bacterium, causing power fluctuations throughout the entire nanogrid. Initially it was a strong point in their defense, keeping the infestation at bay. However with the latest Kharaa evolution, it has turned into a achilles heel. Alterra scientists are baffled at how quickly the Kharaa can adapt to their technology, the way it has adapted to their new tech also prevents the removal of the powernodes. The bacterium seems to be much stronger now, caused by the mutations to cope with the power output from the powernodes. During tests with the powernodes removed, it infects the test area at alarming speed.

    As a result they have introduced a nanite infused flamethrower to deal with hard to reach areas, for manual removal of the bacterium. This works wonders on the infestation itself, but does close to no damage and merely drains energy from the active defensive lifeforms. Another thing they introduced was the upgraded Siege cannons, which are now mobile artillery to be able to deal with the much more dynamic nature of the infestation.
  • ForgererForgerer Join Date: 2016-10-31 Member: 223544Members
    Aren't nanites small robotic forms used by the Borg to simulate victims into their collective?
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members
    Forgerer wrote: »
    Aren't nanites small robotic forms used by the Borg to simulate victims into their collective?

    Nope.

    BTW, The aliens in NS2 can totally kick the Borg butt. :)


  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited October 2017
    Forgerer wrote: »
    Aren't nanites small robotic forms used by the Borg to simulate victims into their collective?

    TSF nanites are tiny little robots that attack bacterium and any other foreign agent, as long as they have a powersource and they're able to change their molecular shape to build the unlocked blueprints stored in the TSF Command Console database, regenerate amor, human tissues and replenish ammunition. The Aurora is using the same tech btw, although it's an older/less advanced version of what the TSF have available.

    garath wrote: »
    Forgerer wrote: »
    Aren't nanites small robotic forms used by the Borg to simulate victims into their collective?

    Nope.

    BTW, The aliens in NS2 can totally kick the Borg butt. :)


    I agree, but I still kinda feel like I'm obliged to take offense on behalf of all my Borg drones
  • RezcaRezca United States Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Members
    Jacke wrote: »
    We've been hashing out these blueprint changes and other issues in another topic. I hardly would say the changes have broke Subnautica.

    UWE obviously had their reasons for doing so. And although they've increased some of the tedium and the challenge, it's no worse than it has been in the past and in many ways better than before. I for one welcome more uses for many mats and especially for Advanced Materials. Gives depth to the game. Makes those Exterior Growbeds with Deep Shrooms and Blood Kelp more useful.

    Yeah I think some of these changes are partly just there to help spread out resource usage somewhat. Like Benzene and Aerogel were one-shot resources used for like one thing and then you forget they exist. Since how many people will keep playing after they lose an exosuit in a very, very deep part of the game? I imagine most just reload so they don't drown and then have to deal with the resulting consequences of losing a vehicle (and dying) in such an area. As such, you'll craft those items once and then never again.

    Lead loses its use pretty quickly, so having it be used a few more times elsewhere is a good thing - however much sense it does or does not make for being used in a Foundation aside. They're not that great for anything other than decoration anyway, as Reinforcements are more efficient and don't cost all that much more. Lead being used in a decoration that just happens to add a bit to durability seems fair enough to me.
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    You currently have a 30% chance of Lead spawning in Sandstone, and you dont need to use foundations all the time.
  • kingkumakingkuma cancels Work: distracted by Dwarf Fortress Join Date: 2015-09-25 Member: 208137Members
    Obraxis wrote: »
    You currently have a 30% chance of Lead spawning in Sandstone, and you dont need to use foundations all the time.

    Ok, I've circumnavigated the aurora, and I couldn't find any large lead outcrops anywhere. WHich is weird - I've never used any lead in my world other than for the rad suit. The ones in the dunes caves have seem to have dissapeared as well.
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members
    Obraxis wrote: »
    You currently have a 30% chance of Lead spawning in Sandstone, and you dont need to use foundations all the time.

    I'm pretty sure it is 10% Silver, 10% gold. So, if it is Lead 30%, I wonder what I'm getting the other 50%? :)

    (Joking, of course)

  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;) Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Members
    garath wrote: »
    Obraxis wrote: »
    You currently have a 30% chance of Lead spawning in Sandstone, and you dont need to use foundations all the time.

    I'm pretty sure it is 10% Silver, 10% gold. So, if it is Lead 30%, I wonder what I'm getting the other 50%? :)

    (Joking, of course)

    Sandstone maybe?

    ...

    Seems about right.
  • TarkannenTarkannen North Carolina Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221304Members
    edited October 2017
    Obraxis wrote: »
    You currently have a 30% chance of Lead spawning in Sandstone, and you dont need to use foundations all the time.

    But... Foundations are so much prettier, making the base look more militaristic and adding more strength - not to mention, they're more reliable (and easier/cheaper to build) than their hooligan Reinforcement cousins. :open_mouth:

    Joking aside, will the snap-to issue with Foundations be looked at soon? I know I'm not the only person who wishes there were a fifth center option to build MPRs on Foundations with, so they don't look like a fourth-grader designed the layout of bases. :pensive:
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members
    edited October 2017
    LOL, @Tarkannen. Reinforcement added to MPR is +14 versus the +2 for a Foundation. If you ask me, they should just drop the +2 to nothing and acknowledge the fact that Foundations are ONLY for decoration and should cost at most 1 Titanium each. :)

    I used to think foundations were only useful for placement of external grow beds. But I was mistaken... Just place the external grow beds on a rock somewhere and skip the foundation altogether. :)
  • JarinJarin Los Angeles Join Date: 2013-12-16 Member: 190184Members
    garath wrote: »
    LOL, @Tarkannen. Reinforcement added to MPR is +14 versus the +2 for a Foundation. If you ask me, they should just drop the +2 to nothing and acknowledge the fact that Foundations are ONLY for decoration and should cost at most 1 Titanium each. :)
    The problem there is that you then have NO method of base reinforcement before finding Lithium, meaning new players bases would be strictly size limited.
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    Came into this thread like
    lpa3k66ydbl3.jpg

    garath wrote: »
    Obraxis wrote: »
    You currently have a 30% chance of Lead spawning in Sandstone, and you dont need to use foundations all the time.

    I'm pretty sure it is 10% Silver, 10% gold. So, if it is Lead 30%, I wonder what I'm getting the other 50%? :)

    (Joking, of course)

    I thought it was 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name. But hey, I haven't busted open a lot of outcrops recently, so you probably know better than I do.
  • RecursionRecursion The cosmos Join Date: 2017-07-01 Member: 231505Members
    I'lll just pass this by.
  • TarkannenTarkannen North Carolina Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221304Members
    garath wrote: »
    LOL, @Tarkannen. Reinforcement added to MPR is +14 +7 versus the +2 for a Foundation. If you ask me, they should just drop the +2 to nothing and acknowledge the fact that Foundations are ONLY for decoration and should cost at most 1 Titanium each. :)

    I used to think foundations were only useful for placement of external grow beds. But I was mistaken... Just place the external grow beds on a rock somewhere and skip the foundation altogether. :)

    Well, logically those values should be drastically altered, possibly swapped. A solid piece of Titanium gives support and enforcement to an entire Corridor, MP Room or other sophisticated Seabase structure, covering all (or most) of the surface area. Meanwhile, a Reinforcement just installs in a three-foot by two-foot section of a wall in a Corridor or MP Room. To me, it's like drilling a sheet of metal onto a wall of a building, and suddenly the entire structure is stronger just by that small area increase. Sure, the same could be said for the Foundation, but logically that makes more sense.

    Also I should point out an interesting note regarding the Reinforcement unit, from the Subnautica Wiki:
    The Reinforcement is a Habitat compartment that increases its hull integrity. They are constructed with the Habitat Builder and raise the integrity value by seven units. They can be placed on the side-panels of Basic Compartments, T Compartments, Moonpools and Multipurpose Rooms.

    Interestingly, when a Reinforcement is placed on a corner of a Multipurpose Room, the hull strength is instead raised by fourteen points as opposed to seven. It is currently unknown whether or not this is a bug.

    So under certain circumstances, the Reinforcement gives a bugged value by being doubled, since the game is apparently counting it twice when it's installed 'in a corner' of a MP Room. But this is most likely a bug and won't be included in the final release of the game. There's three lines of reason why the Reinforcement really only gives +7 Hull Integrity:

    1. The tooltip itself states +7 value, so that's what it's coded to give.
    2. The Reinforcement only gives +7 in any Seabase structure, and only +7 when placed on solid facings of the MP Room. This indicates the Reinforcement is only supposed to give +7 value.
    3. The wiki mentions the value erroneously being doubled when 'in the corner' of a MP Room. But the exterior of the MP Room is round, and the interior is octagonal - either way there is no structural advantage for a Reinforcement to double its effect in such a way. All angles and sides are equal, therefore there is no logical reason for this value to be doubled.

    So is this an exploit? No, if the game allows it without console commands, then it's just fine. Is this a bug? I think it is, since the game is inconsistent in giving the same Integrity value in every room in a Seabase. Did I spend far too much time in rationalizing all of this silly logic out? You better believe that I did! :wink:

    I'm not putting down Reinforcements for what they are, it's just that I prefer the aesthetic appeal that Foundations provide. It wouldn't matter if a Reinforcement gave +100 Integrity and added Laser Defense Drones, I'd still build with Foundations. That's why I'm passionate about gaining the ability to for building in the center of Foundations, so that my Seabase will finally be balanced, both in design and in spirit. :blush:
  • baronvonsatanbaronvonsatan TX, USA Join Date: 2016-12-01 Member: 224415Members
    edited October 2017
    Unless something has changed and I didn't notice, the Reinforcement's +base integrity value is doubled only when placed adjacent to a corridor-- not solely as a corner piece. Not that that makes it make any more sense.
  • garathgarath Texas Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Members
    edited October 2017
    Unless something has changed and I didn't notice, the Reinforcement's +base integrity value is doubled only when placed adjacent to a corridor-- not solely as a corner piece. Not that that makes it make any more sense.


    The Multi Porpoise Room is can Octagon with 4 flat pieces and 4 angled pieces. When you build the reinforcement on any of the 4 flat parts, you only get +7 but if you build on any of the 4 angled parts, you get +14. In my bases, I almost always build windows on the flat parts so I can see the dolphins swimming outside. Thus, to me, it seems like it is always 14 each time. But it is really only +14 on half the spots on the MPR.

    Disclaimer: I just semi-exhaustively tested before I spoke. :)



  • Hulkie2345Hulkie2345 New York Join Date: 2017-08-23 Member: 232598Members
    Tarkannen wrote: »

    I'm not putting down Reinforcements for what they are, it's just that I prefer the aesthetic appeal that Foundations provide. It wouldn't matter if a Reinforcement gave +100 Integrity and added Laser Defense Drones, I'd still build with Foundations. That's why I'm passionate about gaining the ability to for building in the center of Foundations, so that my Seabase will finally be balanced, both in design and in spirit. :blush:

    But remember. If they do add a center snap point for the MPR. All the corridors will be off center. They won't align to the edges of the Foundations. Since the joining connections are fixed lengths.
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