@zetachron - You're forgetting that the Aurora's reactor isn't normal radiation; it's an anti-matter dark energy reactor, not a uranium fission-based nuclear reactor. Aka, it's sci-fi energy that might not necessarily even work the exact same as real-world nuclear physics; can't exactly demand perfect scientific correctness from a fictional type of generator.
You're also assuming that the ship's restored containment field isn't helping to hold back the radiation far faster than would be normal, like a forcefield-shield on the deck of a Star Trek ship.
@The08MetroidMan
The thing is that anything that can penetrate 10m water without getting stopped much, will easily go through any water based organism without interaction too. And humans are practically almost water.
So either water stopps particles and is the perfect shield or particles don't interact with water, thus also go through humans without interaction.
You would need a strange particle that ignores water, but heavily reacts when hitting the element carbon. Antimatter is out as it reacts with any matter and dark energy isn't carbon specific either.
...Or we could just go with, as you said, that it's silly technobabble and not real science, and just think of it as a gameplay mechanic. I'm a big fan of that outlook.
I really just want to see the Radiation Suit have more than one use in the game, besides it being locker filler until I can scan and craft the Trash Can. And having the radiation effect being a manageable presence in the game, besides a one-time gatelocking mechanism would be nice also.
I really just want to see the Radiation Suit have more than one use in the game, besides it being locker filler until I can scan and craft the Trash Can. And having the radiation effect being a manageable presence in the game, besides a one-time gatelocking mechanism would be nice also.
Another possibility would be ion crystal radiation as long as they aren't processed into products. Or the TPG core chamber having radiation, so you need to come back with the right suit.
Then the Ghost Leviathan could emit waves of radiation in the Lost River killing all creatures of ordinary flesh and the reason why the place looks so strange. That would mean that the Lost River area needs the rad suit. It also saves the devs time to create difficult attack animations and just use the Reapers swimming animations and only additionally a glowing radiation pulse attack.
The thing is that anything that can penetrate 10m water without getting stopped much, will easily go through any water based organism without interaction too. And humans are practically almost water.
Except that, again, you're forgetting this isn't normal radiation we're talking about - it's dark matter from a quantum drive. There's no guarantee what the precise effects of that are, or whether or not your base suit can compensate for some of it. Which, considering you can slowly regen health - like one percent every few days or so, I think - points to it having some onboard medical suite; heck, that the PDA could detect fluctuations in your biology from the Carar virus when you hit the Lost River base seems to indicate that, too. Point of fact is, there's a lot of other factors to consider in this.
So either water stopps particles and is the perfect shield or particles don't interact with water, thus also go through humans without interaction.
It's an alien ocean with who knows how many different kinds of minerals floating about - heck, that so many different minerals (quartz, copper, titanium, lead, silver, gold, diamond, etc) are all forming in such a close range to one-another hints to it having a way different consistency of both water-content and earth-content than the average Earth-based ocean. Furthermore, again, this isn't your usual radiation coming from the Aurora - there's nothing to suggest it'll work the same way as, say, a uranium/nuclear reactor's radiation would.
You would need a strange particle that ignores water, but heavily reacts when hitting the element carbon. Antimatter is out as it reacts with any matter and dark energy isn't carbon specific either.
Again; dark matter from a quantum anti-matter drive core. You can't get stranger than a fuel-type that doesn't actually exist (or not yet, at least) mixed with containment and harnessing tech that doesn't exist.
Suffice to say, you'll have to chalk it up to it being a fictional radiation-type that's different from real-world ones... which is true, since we don't have dark-matter engines that unleash quantum detonations when breached.
Another possibility would be ion crystal radiation as long as they aren't processed into products. Or the TPG core chamber having radiation, so you need to come back with the right suit.
Then the Ghost Leviathan could emit waves of radiation in the Lost River killing all creatures of ordinary flesh and the reason why the place looks so strange. That would mean that the Lost River area needs the rad suit. It also saves the devs time to create difficult attack animations and just use the Reapers swimming animations and only additionally a glowing radiation pulse attack.
But you'd need the reinforced suit just to avoid frying down there, unless they make the Prawn more heat-resistant. Plus, if the Ion Crystals gave off radiation like that, you couldn't enter any of the precursor structures without one - they'd have to rebalance the accessibility aspect of things. It's not a bad idea, granted - I'm just not sure it'd be the quick retool you're thinking of.
And actually, I think the devs are considering the Lost River as too small for the thing and are instead considering the Void or Deep Grand Reef as it's nesting zones, so IDK if it'll even still be in the Lost River. Plus, I'd think the high amounts of salt-brine would affect consistency in the water too much for that kind of thing to effectively be a threat. Chances are, the Leviathan's glow is just bioluminesce like the jellyshrooms, jellyrays and ghostrays.
...this isn't normal radiation we're talking about - it's dark matter from a quantum drive. There's no guarantee what the precise effects of that are....
Dark matter only interacts gravitationally and once the reactor in the forward section of the Aurora explodes, it's no longer a factor, likely having dropped down into the planet.
I'd say from what we find in the wreck, radiation is only a problem because there's a constant source of it leaking from the broken reactor vessels. Considering the rad suit isn't very cumbersome or thick, I'd say that means it's a alpha and beta radiation source being leaked out, as other common radiation (gamma, neutron) wouldn't be stopped by a thin suit. As to why the native fauna isn't affected that much, a few possible explanations, but I think it's to simplify gameplay impact of radiation to just the player.
I still think the most logical explanation for the current radiation system is that the Aurora is leaking radioactive fuel. This would explain why it isn't blocked by the water (the water carries the radioactive fuel particles close to the player so they can still by hurt by them) and why fixing holes inside the Aurora causes the radiation to go away.
There's still a few tweaks I would like to see such as graphics for the irradiated area (underwater fuel clouds), no rad damage while in a vehicle, radiation damage to wildlife, and not having the radiation instantly vanish when the leaks are fixed (it should fade over a period of time).
Again; dark matter from a quantum anti-matter drive core. You can't get stranger than a fuel-type that doesn't actually exist (or not yet, at least) mixed with containment and harnessing tech that doesn't exist.
Dark matter is most likely either sign that our theory of gravity is wrong, or primordial micro black holes ("micro" - planet-sized); there are clues that such things should exist. Surprisingly, using artificial super small black hole as a power source is a good idea - it is a perfect matter to energy converter. At very small size, black hole will evaporate very quickly - the smaller it becomes, the faster it will evaporate and it will end its existence in explosion, well more exactly - gamma-ray burst, which btw (if I'm not mistaken) could irradiate surrounding area - transmute none-fissile material into fissile one (if reactor core is made of depleted uranium, for example).
Hmm, that actually makes sense.
As to why black hole matter-energy converter is called dark matter yadda yadda, its probably for PR reasons: people in the future could have irrational fears of word "black hole" just like modern ones have a phobia of everything nuclear.
I wonder, if we make a nuclear reactor and call it I dunno "particle-energy converter" would there be less protests from greenpeace zealots?
It's an alien ocean with who knows how many different kinds of minerals floating about - heck, that so many different minerals (quartz, copper, titanium, lead, silver, gold, diamond, etc) are all forming in such a close range to one-another hints to it having a way different consistency of both water-content and earth-content than the average Earth-based ocean. Furthermore, again, this isn't your usual radiation coming from the Aurora - there's nothing to suggest it'll work the same way as, say, a uranium/nuclear reactor's radiation would
We know how radiation behaves in any possible solution.
Theorized dark matter particles has been nicknamed WIMPs - Weakly Interactive Massive Particles - meaning that these are particles that have mass, but don't interact with normal matter in any detectable way.
So no, if wimps exists and they are leaking from Aurora, they would have had zero effect on environment.
Again; dark matter from a quantum anti-matter drive core. You can't get stranger than a fuel-type that doesn't actually exist (or not yet, at least) mixed with containment and harnessing tech that doesn't exist.
Dark matter is most likely either sign that our theory of gravity is wrong, or primordial micro black holes ("micro" - planet-sized); there are clues that such things should exist. Surprisingly, using artificial super small black hole as a power source is a good idea - it is a perfect matter to energy converter. At very small size, black hole will evaporate very quickly - the smaller it becomes, the faster it will evaporate and it will end its existence in explosion, well more exactly - gamma-ray burst, which btw (if I'm not mistaken) could irradiate surrounding area - transmute none-fissile material into fissile one (if reactor core is made of depleted uranium, for example).
Well, every test still comes out with Einstein's General Relativity as he formulated being the best to accurately interpret the data. And there's at least one galaxy where the centre of the visible (ie. glowing) matter is offset from the centre of gravitational lensing, ie. the dark matter. So I think that rules out alternate gravitation.
And I don't think it can be small black holes as the size needed to survive the amount of time, billions of years, is rather large. And with dark matter and visible matter overlapped, if dark matter was black holes, you'd see spectra from the infall of matter into the black holes as they sucked in interstellar gas.
Dark matter only interacts gravitationally and once the reactor in the forward section of the Aurora explodes, it's no longer a factor, likely having dropped down into the planet.
You forgot the "Ion" aspect of the engine mixed in there, and the "quantum detonation" part when it overloaded - I've said it before, I'll say it again; what the Aurora runs on just does not seem to have a real-world equivalent to compare to. Hence why judging how it's radiation works isn't possible at this piint in time, let alone how it should or shouldn't work.
I'd say from what we find in the wreck, radiation is only a problem because there's a constant source of it leaking from the broken reactor vessels. Considering the rad suit isn't very cumbersome or thick, I'd say that means it's a alpha and beta radiation source being leaked out, as other common radiation (gamma, neutron) wouldn't be stopped by a thin suit. As to why the native fauna isn't affected that much, a few possible explanations, but I think it's to simplify gameplay impact of radiation to just the player.
But that doesn't account for how, given the advancement of tech in Subnautica (molecular manipulation of density in items, etc), it's possible the suits just don't need the same kind of thickness as real-world rad suits do - they're probably more resistant than today's are, especially if they're supposed to be rated for use on alien worlds. So honestly, the field's not been narrowed on that count - honestly, IDK if there's even any other way to explain it besides "it's a fictional energy source - the radiation can't be effectively judged by today's types".
We know how radiation behaves in any possible solution.
Theorized dark matter particles has been nicknamed WIMPs - Weakly Interactive Massive Particles - meaning that these are particles that have mass, but don't interact with normal matter in any detectable way.
So no, if wimps exists and they are leaking from Aurora, they would have had zero effect on environment.
We know how modern/non-fictional radiation behaves in any possible situation. A fictional energy core with tech and energy-mixes we don't currently have, in an alien biome we can't simulate, isn't one of those possible situations here on Earth. Furthermore, it's not just dark-matter - Ion energy is mentioned in the databank description of the ship's engine, and the "quantum detonation" part implies there's some other aspect of it used to convert the energy to the ship's power systems. Plus, this isn't actually a theory - the in-game data describes it as Dark Energy.
- subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Aurora#Data_Bank_Entry
Honestly, I think that it's a fictional type of radiation from a fictional type of machine and energy mix is the only thing to really say about it; there's just nothing like either the machinery or the environment that we can replicate enough to properly know how it works, let alone what it should or shouldn't be able to do.
I think UWE thought to use "dark matter quantum drive" just because it sounds neat and different. We've likely discussed it more here than they have.
Ha ha yes absolutely. I think they just took a bunch of word they think sounds cool and thrown them together.
But nonetheless it's fun to try to rationalize that, isn't it?
Well, every test still comes out with Einstein's General Relativity as he formulated being the best to accurately interpret the data. And there's at least one galaxy where the centre of the visible (ie. glowing) matter is offset from the centre of gravitational lensing, ie. the dark matter. So I think that rules out alternate gravitation.
Stephen Perrenod, physics degree from MIT and astrophysics Ph.D. from Harvard:
Personally, I think it doesn’t exist.
I only recently came to this conclusion with the publication of Verlinde’s Emergent Gravity paper last November.
The direct detection attempts for dark matter keep coming up short.
It might be:
1.WIMPS - least massive supersymmetric partner particle but CERN shows no evidence for supersymmetric particles
2.Axions - these have never been detected
3.Sterile neutrinos - ditto
4.Primordial black holes - but these are mostly ruled out although the two intermediate black hole gravitational wave merger events are interesting.
Aside from that it might be a phantom. Phantom matter refers to what seems to be matter due to gravitational effects, but is really dark gravity, that is emergent gravity − − extra gravity. That arises when one takes into account the interplay of ordinary matter and dark energy.
More on emergent gravity here:
Emergent Gravity: Verlinde’s Proposal
It is still very much an open question, we can not rule dark matter in or out completely at this point.
As for primordial black holes, not long ago I've read a study that gamma ray bursts could be final stages of primodial black holes evaporation... Here it is: https://arxiv.org/abs/1105.5363#
We know how modern/non-fictional radiation behaves in any possible situation. A fictional energy core with tech and energy-mixes we don't currently have, in an alien biome we can't simulate, isn't one of those possible situations here on Earth
My point is, we know what radiation can and can not do to any living tissue possible.
I suggested once that instead of "dark matter" words "negative matter" or "exotic matter" should be used (that stuff is essential for creation of warp bubble; and yes this words are used in real physics papers).
If we are dealing with new physics (and we certainly are since in Subnautica we have superluminal travel) new terminology would be created to describe phenomena. Heck, if they said that ship core radiates "zetha-rays" or something like that it would be fine, because such thing is not yet discovered thus it should behave not as other phenomena that we know of.
But nonetheless it's fun to try to rationalize that, isn't it?
[ Then a whole bunch of real physics discussion ]
I really like reading Lee Smolin as what he thinks really strikes me strongly with what Philip Morrison called "the ring of truth".
Some things I think are true:
1. General Relativity in Einstein's formulation is true
2. String Theory will be seen to have been a massive excursion into mathematics and have little to do with the real world (as in Pauli's "not even wrong")
3. Most past hypothetical extensions of the Standard Module like Supersymmetry and Axions will similarly be found to be unfounded
4. Dark matter is...well, most possibilities have already been experimentally ruled out. As it only appears to interact gravitationally, I'm really at a lose to explain it.
5. Dark energy is...that's completely right out for now.
I think UWE thought to use "dark matter quantum drive" just because it sounds neat and different. We've likely discussed it more here than they have.
Ha ha yes absolutely. I think they just took a bunch of word they think sounds cool and thrown them together.
But nonetheless it's fun to try to rationalize that, isn't it?
Actually, I'd be more inclined to think they chose it because it's not a reactor that exists in the real world, so they could effectively hand-wave some of the physics without much issue - whether or not it sounds cool was probably secondary to that.
Well, every test still comes out with Einstein's General Relativity as he formulated being the best to accurately interpret the data. And there's at least one galaxy where the centre of the visible (ie. glowing) matter is offset from the centre of gravitational lensing, ie. the dark matter. So I think that rules out alternate gravitation.
Stephen Perrenod, physics degree from MIT and astrophysics Ph.D. from Harvard:
Personally, I think it doesn’t exist.
I only recently came to this conclusion with the publication of Verlinde’s Emergent Gravity paper last November.
The direct detection attempts for dark matter keep coming up short.
It might be:
1.WIMPS - least massive supersymmetric partner particle but CERN shows no evidence for supersymmetric particles
2.Axions - these have never been detected
3.Sterile neutrinos - ditto
4.Primordial black holes - but these are mostly ruled out although the two intermediate black hole gravitational wave merger events are interesting.
Aside from that it might be a phantom. Phantom matter refers to what seems to be matter due to gravitational effects, but is really dark gravity, that is emergent gravity − − extra gravity. That arises when one takes into account the interplay of ordinary matter and dark energy.
More on emergent gravity here:
Emergent Gravity: Verlinde’s Proposal
It is still very much an open question, we can not rule dark matter in or out completely at this point.
As for primordial black holes, not long ago I've read a study that gamma ray bursts could be final stages of primodial black holes evaporation... Here it is: https://arxiv.org/abs/1105.5363#
Same issues as before, though; the Aurora's core doesn't seem to use only Dark Matter. It's apparently a combination of Dark Matter and Ion energy, plus some form of quantum physics - none of which has an equatable counterpart in the real world. Plus, the term "Dark Energy" is sometimes loosely applied to other things it really shouldn't be - heck, some games describe it as the product of Dark Matter itself, rather than a different force altogether. Honestly speaking, no amount of papers on any one aspect is going to accurately rationalize how a threefold combination of several different theoretical sciences in a timeline ahead of our own will even work, let alone what they should or shouldn't be able to do - it's one of those things you really can't realistically apply verisimilitude to.
We know how modern/non-fictional radiation behaves in any possible situation. A fictional energy core with tech and energy-mixes we don't currently have, in an alien biome we can't simulate, isn't one of those possible situations here on Earth
My point is, we know what radiation can and can not do to any living tissue possible.
I suggested once that instead of "dark matter" words "negative matter" or "exotic matter" should be used (that stuff is essential for creation of warp bubble; and yes this words are used in real physics papers).
And likewise, my point is that this is not radiation as we know it, because the emissions are from different elements than what we know. Before the advent of the atom's splitting, nobody thought power like what it could unleash was even possible outside of the realm of magic and legend, so to say we can 100% reliably predict how any and all possible future type of radiation emission can or cannot function is... well, honestly speaking, an impossible thing to claim, in my opinion. We really can't know what a fictional type of radiation emission from a fictional engine born of tossing three separate fields (dark matter, ion & quantum physics) together would even work, let alone how it should or shouldn't affect things. No amount of arguing can really change that there's no real-world equivalent of anything like the Aurora's engine to make certain statements about.
If we are dealing with new physics (and we certainly are since in Subnautica we have superluminal travel) new terminology would be created to describe phenomena. Heck, if they said that ship core radiates "zetha-rays" or something like that it would be fine, because such thing is not yet discovered thus it should behave not as other phenomena that we know of.
But that's precisely the point I'm trying to make; said fictional rays would still classify as radiation, yes? The devs probably figure they don't need to elaborate that much on it - it's still radiation, fictional type or not; it's still an emission that affects the body from prolonged exposure (like Time energy in Doctor Who did for the human body). The difference is what the exact effects are. Heck, as you yourself spent so much time pointing out, the radiation in the game already doesn't really behave as other phenomena that we know of, since no other radiation type seems to really behave in such a way as what the emissions from the Aurora do, so isn't that the same as saying it's already a moot point?
1. General Relativity in Einstein's formulation is true
2. String Theory will be seen to have been a massive excursion into mathematics and have little to do with the real world (as in Pauli's "not even wrong")
3. Most past hypothetical extensions of the Standard Module like Supersymmetry and Axions will similarly be found to be unfounded
4. Dark matter is...well, most possibilities have already been experimentally ruled out. As it only appears to interact gravitationally, I'm really at a lose to explain it.
5. Dark energy is...that's completely right out for now.
That still doesn't change the fact that Dark Matter is what's factually listed on the Aurora's drive core specifications: http://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Aurora#Data_Bank_Entry
It's listed as a "Dark-Matter Ion Drive Core V8." Plus, throw in the whole "quantum detonation" aspect and it really doesn't point to the Aurora's core being an engine with a non-fictional, quantifiable counterpart at this point in time. All we can really confirm is note that it's a fictional engine with therefore a fictional type of irradiating emission that harms the human body if exposed to it for too long.
Even though they aren't nuclear, something that small that contains that much energy is very likely going to leak some radiation. This is supported by the fact that they glow. The glow, though, is just the visible part of the spectrum of electromagnetic radiation it's emitting. It's very possible that it's also emitting tons of X-rays and gamma radiation that's slowly killing us.
That's actually not true. Fission reactions let off a ton of harmful radiation, but fusion reactions let off none at all, despite letting off many orders of magnitude more energy. Harmful radiation from reactions is usually because of unstable molecules, which fusion reactions don't create.
While I think it would be an interesting mechanic, I fear it would be overdone and end up taking away from the gameplay rather than add anything useful to it. I'd rather they just leave it alone.
Today, we have an energy and environmental crisis. And the only realistic way of how we could solve it before we destroy environment, is to phase out fossil fuels and replace them with nuclear plants ASAP. Yet everybody is scared to death of anything nuclear; simply because people don't understand anything about it. Promoting fear of nuclear is the same thing as murdering cats during the plague.
As with most problems, it is not nearly this simple. Let's stay away from insulting everyone generally that disagrees with us and stick to the thread's topic.
Even though they aren't nuclear, something that small that contains that much energy is very likely going to leak some radiation. This is supported by the fact that they glow. The glow, though, is just the visible part of the spectrum of electromagnetic radiation it's emitting. It's very possible that it's also emitting tons of X-rays and gamma radiation that's slowly killing us.
That's actually not true. Fission reactions let off a ton of harmful radiation, but fusion reactions let off none at all, despite letting off many orders of magnitude more energy. Harmful radiation from reactions is usually because of unstable molecules, which fusion reactions don't create.
While I think it would be an interesting mechanic, I fear it would be overdone and end up taking away from the gameplay rather than add anything useful to it. I'd rather they just leave it alone.
What are you talking about? Fusion reactors don't let off any particle radiation, like alpha, beta, and neutron radiation. But the let off TONS of electromagnetic radiation, all up and down the spectrum, which, particularly in the X-ray and gamma wavelengths, is extremely harmful in any substantial dose. Why do you think you get sunburnt? It's because of elecromagnetic radiation emitted by the sun, in this case on the ultraviolet wavelength, damaging your skin. Most of the suns radiation is emitted on the lower end of the spectrum though, so UV is about as harmful as it gets. But a fusion reactor is going to be much closer to you, and very likely hotter than the surface of the sun, and therefor emitting at shorter wavelengths, so if it wasn't properly shielded, the radiation would kill anyone nearby. The higher energy something is, the higher up on the spectrum it emits EM radiation. That's why as things get hotter, they glow red, then yellow, then blue. That's also how thermal vision works. All but the coldest objects are still emitting some amount of EM radiation, but it's too low on the spectrum for humans to see. So something containing as much energy as the ion crystals supposedly do would, assuming it leaked any energy at all, which it clearly does based on the glow, be emitting most of it high on the spectrum at wavelengths that are extremely harmful to humans.
Unless, of course, they only glow because they were intentionally designed to glow, so that the aliens wouldn't lose them when they dropped them in the dark water. :P
Just a bunch of crazy talk saying Ion crystals generate radiation. They are about as real as the ZPM's in the Stargate SG1 TV franchise, and you never hear about anyone getting radiation injuries from handling that TV show's power modules.
Generally you don't want your energy storage emitting any sort of radiation, especially when it's just sitting there. Any radiation coming off is just wasted energy that will eventually drain the battery.
Yes, lets make the radiation suit critical so that we have to keep putting it on and taking it off again so re can reequip the rebreather every time we need to dive Below 100m and have to put the reinforced dive suit back on every time we go to the lava zone.
Best of all, no Uranite left at the mountain? Have fun harvesting it exclusively from your prawn suit from the deeper biomes because you can't ditch the rebreather to put the damn suit on.
I'm agreeing with @Herugrim that too much indulgence in representing radioactivity and radiation can really ruin the gameplay. But before seeing that off, some more on the real world.
Fission reactions let off a ton of harmful radiation, but fusion reactions let off none at all, despite letting off many orders of magnitude more energy. Harmful radiation from reactions is usually because of unstable molecules, which fusion reactions don't create.
What are you talking about? Fusion reactors don't let off any particle radiation, like alpha, beta, and neutron radiation. But the let off TONS of electromagnetic radiation, all up and down the spectrum, which, particularly in the X-ray and gamma wavelengths, is extremely harmful in any substantial dose.
Umm, you're both somewhat incorrect. First, @cdaragorn you said unstable molecules when I think you meant radioactive isotopes, those that will emit radiation. And both fission and fusion reactions produce radioactive isotopes and radiation like neutrons. In fact, most fusion reactions release most of their energy into free neutrons and only certain ones avoid this. And if you have a star that will intercept all the reactions deep inside, when it gets to the surface, it can be emitted as EM radiation throughout the spectrum. But that doesn't apply here.
I prefer being done with the radiation suit once the radiation is cleared. If I need the suit to swap out cores, I would build the trash can right next to the reactor and not even bother swapping gear, unless it's instant death to pull it out. Making a room in my base toxic? Nah, I would never build the reactor again.
The suit serves its purpose, after that you get options for better suits. I could see it being changed to be a component in the better suits, and all the better suits having radiation resistance as well. At least in those cases you won't have it sitting in a wall locker or going in the garbage.
I prefer being done with the radiation suit once the radiation is cleared. If I need the suit to swap out cores, I would build the trash can right next to the reactor and not even bother swapping gear, unless it's instant death to pull it out. Making a room in my base toxic? Nah, I would never build the reactor again.
The suit serves its purpose, after that you get options for better suits. I could see it being changed to be a component in the better suits, and all the better suits having radiation resistance as well. At least in those cases you won't have it sitting in a wall locker or going in the garbage.
That's a neat solution to the problem of the rad suit being useless later in the game. It could be the base ingredient to the reinforced dive suit, with the extra materials being used to up-armor the suit to the next level.
I prefer being done with the radiation suit once the radiation is cleared. If I need the suit to swap out cores, I would build the trash can right next to the reactor and not even bother swapping gear, unless it's instant death to pull it out. Making a room in my base toxic? Nah, I would never build the reactor again.
The suit serves its purpose, after that you get options for better suits. I could see it being changed to be a component in the better suits, and all the better suits having radiation resistance as well. At least in those cases you won't have it sitting in a wall locker or going in the garbage.
That's a neat solution to the problem of the rad suit being useless later in the game. It could be the base ingredient to the reinforced dive suit, with the extra materials being used to up-armor the suit to the next level.
Agreed - especially since the suit will be doubly useless soon, considering the devs plan on removing Uranium as an ingredient due to it not being used for anything else besides the reactor... so no more raw uranium to give off rad poisoning; it'll all be inside the shielded reactor rod already (unless the devs decide we need the rad suit for handling those too). https://trello.com/c/r05j96pZ/6452-simplify-reactor-rod
Long story short, unless there's some other feature to use it on, the rad suit isn't going to see a whole lot of use after the Aurora's repaired.
Comments
You're also assuming that the ship's restored containment field isn't helping to hold back the radiation far faster than would be normal, like a forcefield-shield on the deck of a Star Trek ship.
At the same time, the debate on uranium might be moot since one of the features planned to be implemented is in fact to have uranium hurt the player if they're not wearing a radiation suit;
- https://trello.com/c/sfqdJdl0/111-uranium-doing-damage-when-youre-holding-it-unless-youre-wearing-a-suit
The thing is that anything that can penetrate 10m water without getting stopped much, will easily go through any water based organism without interaction too. And humans are practically almost water.
So either water stopps particles and is the perfect shield or particles don't interact with water, thus also go through humans without interaction.
You would need a strange particle that ignores water, but heavily reacts when hitting the element carbon. Antimatter is out as it reacts with any matter and dark energy isn't carbon specific either.
Another possibility would be ion crystal radiation as long as they aren't processed into products. Or the TPG core chamber having radiation, so you need to come back with the right suit.
Then the Ghost Leviathan could emit waves of radiation in the Lost River killing all creatures of ordinary flesh and the reason why the place looks so strange. That would mean that the Lost River area needs the rad suit. It also saves the devs time to create difficult attack animations and just use the Reapers swimming animations and only additionally a glowing radiation pulse attack.
Except that, again, you're forgetting this isn't normal radiation we're talking about - it's dark matter from a quantum drive. There's no guarantee what the precise effects of that are, or whether or not your base suit can compensate for some of it. Which, considering you can slowly regen health - like one percent every few days or so, I think - points to it having some onboard medical suite; heck, that the PDA could detect fluctuations in your biology from the Carar virus when you hit the Lost River base seems to indicate that, too. Point of fact is, there's a lot of other factors to consider in this.
It's an alien ocean with who knows how many different kinds of minerals floating about - heck, that so many different minerals (quartz, copper, titanium, lead, silver, gold, diamond, etc) are all forming in such a close range to one-another hints to it having a way different consistency of both water-content and earth-content than the average Earth-based ocean. Furthermore, again, this isn't your usual radiation coming from the Aurora - there's nothing to suggest it'll work the same way as, say, a uranium/nuclear reactor's radiation would.
Again; dark matter from a quantum anti-matter drive core. You can't get stranger than a fuel-type that doesn't actually exist (or not yet, at least) mixed with containment and harnessing tech that doesn't exist.
Also... just to clarify, the dark-matter/anti-matter aspect wasn't a suggestion; that's actually what the in-game data says the Aurora's core is.
- subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Aurora#Data_Bank_Entry
- subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Dialogue#Aurora
Suffice to say, you'll have to chalk it up to it being a fictional radiation-type that's different from real-world ones... which is true, since we don't have dark-matter engines that unleash quantum detonations when breached.
But you'd need the reinforced suit just to avoid frying down there, unless they make the Prawn more heat-resistant. Plus, if the Ion Crystals gave off radiation like that, you couldn't enter any of the precursor structures without one - they'd have to rebalance the accessibility aspect of things. It's not a bad idea, granted - I'm just not sure it'd be the quick retool you're thinking of.
And actually, I think the devs are considering the Lost River as too small for the thing and are instead considering the Void or Deep Grand Reef as it's nesting zones, so IDK if it'll even still be in the Lost River. Plus, I'd think the high amounts of salt-brine would affect consistency in the water too much for that kind of thing to effectively be a threat. Chances are, the Leviathan's glow is just bioluminesce like the jellyshrooms, jellyrays and ghostrays.
I'd say from what we find in the wreck, radiation is only a problem because there's a constant source of it leaking from the broken reactor vessels. Considering the rad suit isn't very cumbersome or thick, I'd say that means it's a alpha and beta radiation source being leaked out, as other common radiation (gamma, neutron) wouldn't be stopped by a thin suit. As to why the native fauna isn't affected that much, a few possible explanations, but I think it's to simplify gameplay impact of radiation to just the player.
There's still a few tweaks I would like to see such as graphics for the irradiated area (underwater fuel clouds), no rad damage while in a vehicle, radiation damage to wildlife, and not having the radiation instantly vanish when the leaks are fixed (it should fade over a period of time).
Hmm, that actually makes sense.
As to why black hole matter-energy converter is called dark matter yadda yadda, its probably for PR reasons: people in the future could have irrational fears of word "black hole" just like modern ones have a phobia of everything nuclear.
I wonder, if we make a nuclear reactor and call it I dunno "particle-energy converter" would there be less protests from greenpeace zealots?
We know how radiation behaves in any possible solution.
Theorized dark matter particles has been nicknamed WIMPs - Weakly Interactive Massive Particles - meaning that these are particles that have mass, but don't interact with normal matter in any detectable way.
So no, if wimps exists and they are leaking from Aurora, they would have had zero effect on environment.
Well, every test still comes out with Einstein's General Relativity as he formulated being the best to accurately interpret the data. And there's at least one galaxy where the centre of the visible (ie. glowing) matter is offset from the centre of gravitational lensing, ie. the dark matter. So I think that rules out alternate gravitation.
And I don't think it can be small black holes as the size needed to survive the amount of time, billions of years, is rather large. And with dark matter and visible matter overlapped, if dark matter was black holes, you'd see spectra from the infall of matter into the black holes as they sucked in interstellar gas.
You forgot the "Ion" aspect of the engine mixed in there, and the "quantum detonation" part when it overloaded - I've said it before, I'll say it again; what the Aurora runs on just does not seem to have a real-world equivalent to compare to. Hence why judging how it's radiation works isn't possible at this piint in time, let alone how it should or shouldn't work.
But that doesn't account for how, given the advancement of tech in Subnautica (molecular manipulation of density in items, etc), it's possible the suits just don't need the same kind of thickness as real-world rad suits do - they're probably more resistant than today's are, especially if they're supposed to be rated for use on alien worlds. So honestly, the field's not been narrowed on that count - honestly, IDK if there's even any other way to explain it besides "it's a fictional energy source - the radiation can't be effectively judged by today's types".
We know how modern/non-fictional radiation behaves in any possible situation. A fictional energy core with tech and energy-mixes we don't currently have, in an alien biome we can't simulate, isn't one of those possible situations here on Earth. Furthermore, it's not just dark-matter - Ion energy is mentioned in the databank description of the ship's engine, and the "quantum detonation" part implies there's some other aspect of it used to convert the energy to the ship's power systems. Plus, this isn't actually a theory - the in-game data describes it as Dark Energy.
- subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Aurora#Data_Bank_Entry
Honestly, I think that it's a fictional type of radiation from a fictional type of machine and energy mix is the only thing to really say about it; there's just nothing like either the machinery or the environment that we can replicate enough to properly know how it works, let alone what it should or shouldn't be able to do.
But nonetheless it's fun to try to rationalize that, isn't it?
Stephen Perrenod, physics degree from MIT and astrophysics Ph.D. from Harvard: https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-personally-think-dark-matter-is/answer/Stephen-Perrenod
As for primordial black holes, not long ago I've read a study that gamma ray bursts could be final stages of primodial black holes evaporation... Here it is:
https://arxiv.org/abs/1105.5363#
My point is, we know what radiation can and can not do to any living tissue possible.
I suggested once that instead of "dark matter" words "negative matter" or "exotic matter" should be used (that stuff is essential for creation of warp bubble; and yes this words are used in real physics papers).
If we are dealing with new physics (and we certainly are since in Subnautica we have superluminal travel) new terminology would be created to describe phenomena. Heck, if they said that ship core radiates "zetha-rays" or something like that it would be fine, because such thing is not yet discovered thus it should behave not as other phenomena that we know of.
I really like reading Lee Smolin as what he thinks really strikes me strongly with what Philip Morrison called "the ring of truth".
Some things I think are true:
1. General Relativity in Einstein's formulation is true
2. String Theory will be seen to have been a massive excursion into mathematics and have little to do with the real world (as in Pauli's "not even wrong")
3. Most past hypothetical extensions of the Standard Module like Supersymmetry and Axions will similarly be found to be unfounded
4. Dark matter is...well, most possibilities have already been experimentally ruled out. As it only appears to interact gravitationally, I'm really at a lose to explain it.
5. Dark energy is...that's completely right out for now.
Actually, I'd be more inclined to think they chose it because it's not a reactor that exists in the real world, so they could effectively hand-wave some of the physics without much issue - whether or not it sounds cool was probably secondary to that.
Same issues as before, though; the Aurora's core doesn't seem to use only Dark Matter. It's apparently a combination of Dark Matter and Ion energy, plus some form of quantum physics - none of which has an equatable counterpart in the real world. Plus, the term "Dark Energy" is sometimes loosely applied to other things it really shouldn't be - heck, some games describe it as the product of Dark Matter itself, rather than a different force altogether. Honestly speaking, no amount of papers on any one aspect is going to accurately rationalize how a threefold combination of several different theoretical sciences in a timeline ahead of our own will even work, let alone what they should or shouldn't be able to do - it's one of those things you really can't realistically apply verisimilitude to.
And likewise, my point is that this is not radiation as we know it, because the emissions are from different elements than what we know. Before the advent of the atom's splitting, nobody thought power like what it could unleash was even possible outside of the realm of magic and legend, so to say we can 100% reliably predict how any and all possible future type of radiation emission can or cannot function is... well, honestly speaking, an impossible thing to claim, in my opinion. We really can't know what a fictional type of radiation emission from a fictional engine born of tossing three separate fields (dark matter, ion & quantum physics) together would even work, let alone how it should or shouldn't affect things. No amount of arguing can really change that there's no real-world equivalent of anything like the Aurora's engine to make certain statements about.
But that's precisely the point I'm trying to make; said fictional rays would still classify as radiation, yes? The devs probably figure they don't need to elaborate that much on it - it's still radiation, fictional type or not; it's still an emission that affects the body from prolonged exposure (like Time energy in Doctor Who did for the human body). The difference is what the exact effects are. Heck, as you yourself spent so much time pointing out, the radiation in the game already doesn't really behave as other phenomena that we know of, since no other radiation type seems to really behave in such a way as what the emissions from the Aurora do, so isn't that the same as saying it's already a moot point?
That still doesn't change the fact that Dark Matter is what's factually listed on the Aurora's drive core specifications:
http://subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Aurora#Data_Bank_Entry
It's listed as a "Dark-Matter Ion Drive Core V8." Plus, throw in the whole "quantum detonation" aspect and it really doesn't point to the Aurora's core being an engine with a non-fictional, quantifiable counterpart at this point in time. All we can really confirm is note that it's a fictional engine with therefore a fictional type of irradiating emission that harms the human body if exposed to it for too long.
That's actually not true. Fission reactions let off a ton of harmful radiation, but fusion reactions let off none at all, despite letting off many orders of magnitude more energy. Harmful radiation from reactions is usually because of unstable molecules, which fusion reactions don't create.
While I think it would be an interesting mechanic, I fear it would be overdone and end up taking away from the gameplay rather than add anything useful to it. I'd rather they just leave it alone.
As with most problems, it is not nearly this simple. Let's stay away from insulting everyone generally that disagrees with us and stick to the thread's topic.
What are you talking about? Fusion reactors don't let off any particle radiation, like alpha, beta, and neutron radiation. But the let off TONS of electromagnetic radiation, all up and down the spectrum, which, particularly in the X-ray and gamma wavelengths, is extremely harmful in any substantial dose. Why do you think you get sunburnt? It's because of elecromagnetic radiation emitted by the sun, in this case on the ultraviolet wavelength, damaging your skin. Most of the suns radiation is emitted on the lower end of the spectrum though, so UV is about as harmful as it gets. But a fusion reactor is going to be much closer to you, and very likely hotter than the surface of the sun, and therefor emitting at shorter wavelengths, so if it wasn't properly shielded, the radiation would kill anyone nearby. The higher energy something is, the higher up on the spectrum it emits EM radiation. That's why as things get hotter, they glow red, then yellow, then blue. That's also how thermal vision works. All but the coldest objects are still emitting some amount of EM radiation, but it's too low on the spectrum for humans to see. So something containing as much energy as the ion crystals supposedly do would, assuming it leaked any energy at all, which it clearly does based on the glow, be emitting most of it high on the spectrum at wavelengths that are extremely harmful to humans.
Best of all, no Uranite left at the mountain? Have fun harvesting it exclusively from your prawn suit from the deeper biomes because you can't ditch the rebreather to put the damn suit on.
Dumbest idea ever. I hate you all.
Umm, you're both somewhat incorrect. First, @cdaragorn you said unstable molecules when I think you meant radioactive isotopes, those that will emit radiation. And both fission and fusion reactions produce radioactive isotopes and radiation like neutrons. In fact, most fusion reactions release most of their energy into free neutrons and only certain ones avoid this. And if you have a star that will intercept all the reactions deep inside, when it gets to the surface, it can be emitted as EM radiation throughout the spectrum. But that doesn't apply here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aneutronic_fusion
The suit serves its purpose, after that you get options for better suits. I could see it being changed to be a component in the better suits, and all the better suits having radiation resistance as well. At least in those cases you won't have it sitting in a wall locker or going in the garbage.
That's a neat solution to the problem of the rad suit being useless later in the game. It could be the base ingredient to the reinforced dive suit, with the extra materials being used to up-armor the suit to the next level.
Agreed - especially since the suit will be doubly useless soon, considering the devs plan on removing Uranium as an ingredient due to it not being used for anything else besides the reactor... so no more raw uranium to give off rad poisoning; it'll all be inside the shielded reactor rod already (unless the devs decide we need the rad suit for handling those too).
https://trello.com/c/r05j96pZ/6452-simplify-reactor-rod
Long story short, unless there's some other feature to use it on, the rad suit isn't going to see a whole lot of use after the Aurora's repaired.