Idea to buff flamethrower: bypass player armor

NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
The flamethrower is not in a great place right. It's only real use is to disable alien structures and maybe do some AOE damage. Flamethrower DPS is worse than a rifle, it has worse range than a rifle, and the "energy regen" reduction is almost non-existant. Buffing only the damage would make it strictly better than other weapons, which might be okay, but "strictly better" is not NS2's style.

What if vanilla made the flamethrower bypass player armor (building damage would remain the same)? It would effectively deal extra damage to Gorges, Oni, and partially Lerks, without significantly increasing the damage to Skulks or Fades. It would also be a decent counter to Onos boneshield, since that can only regenerate armor.
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Comments

  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Flamethrower should stop trying to be a damage Dealer and instead being made into a pure Support weapon.
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 958 Advanced user
    I have no problems with the FT being a support weapon tbh.

    You can support in 2 ways:
    - Buff your teammates
    - Debuff the enemy

    Well the buff support is provided by commander and the debuff by flamethrower. However I don't get the idea how a full support weapon can be of any use if you have to get close to the aliens for it to work.

    The flamethrower is atm like a gorge (without bunnyhop) that can only use bilebomb.
    It is slow, has no killing power, very situational.

    One way to add a nice support feature to the FT is to give it an alternative firemode which is basically like a giant AoE welder and that welds buildings twice as fast (maybe even faster building time for structures). Add that to the current abilities that the FT has atm and we have a damn strong support weapon.
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  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    You could easily remove the flamer from the main weapon slot. Make it an buyable / researchable attachment for rifle only or give it a new weapon slot, maybe replace axe with it so you also coudlnt wear a welder, there are many ways it could work.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,466 Advanced user
    Another idea would be to buff the "setting things on fire" aspect of it and use it for area denial. (E.g. Bathe a room in flames, aliens now can't touch anything in there for 10 seconds without seriously getting hurt.)
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    coolitic.trixX.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    Another idea would be to buff the "setting things on fire" aspect of it and use it for area denial. (E.g. Bathe a room in flames, aliens now can't touch anything in there for 10 seconds without seriously getting hurt.)

    Yes, at this point, it's almost non-existant. However, aliens would need a light counter for it that scales with player count.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 958 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    You know that healspray extinguishes fire?
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  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    You know that healspray extinguishes fire?

    It only has a chance to (kSprayDouseOnFireChance) which is 50%. On average that's 2 heal sprays, but you can easily need more if you have bad luck.
  • KasharicKasharic Hull, England Join Date: 2013-03-27 Member: 184473Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 685 Advanced user
    Mephilles wrote: »
    One way to add a nice support feature to the FT is to give it an alternative firemode which is basically like a giant AoE welder and that welds buildings twice as fast (maybe even faster building time for structures). Add that to the current abilities that the FT has atm and we have a damn strong support weapon.

    A flamethrower that doubles as a blowtorch, lol... interesting! XD
    Meph isn't an NSL admin anymore!

    #blameHefty
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,466 Advanced user
    coolitic wrote: »
    Another idea would be to buff the "setting things on fire" aspect of it and use it for area denial. (E.g. Bathe a room in flames, aliens now can't touch anything in there for 10 seconds without seriously getting hurt.)

    Yes, at this point, it's almost non-existant. However, aliens would need a light counter for it that scales with player count.

    Yeah, I would have suggested healspray there. Also maybe stomp. Onos and gorge are the only aliens that have to move strictly along the ground; the others are airborne a lot more and shouldn't get the ability to remove fire.

    It would probably be better if only healspray can do it, though. Onos are powerful enough and should always be accompanied by gorges anyway.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
  • BestProfileNameBestProfileName Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177320Members Posts: 448 Advanced user
    The FF is such a noob weapon that I don't want to see it buffed. It's kind of like the GL in that sense (although due to the range and around-the-focking-corner-insta-lerk-gib the latter is better) - there is a lot less skill variation.

    Maybe make it cheaper, so worse players can feel more useful, but without it having the ability to derp aliens whilst having almost no skill required to use it. The way it burns through alien energy makes it quite useful in a group though.
  • ZdrytchXZdrytchX Australia Join Date: 2016-02-06 Member: 212662Members Posts: 101 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    The problem with the flamethrower is that it kinda plays like a hitscan weapon. There is no delay, and you cannot burn yourself without friendly fire enabled. Waay too easy to use. No obs scanner? No problem! Run into a base, tap the mouse here and there and you have a makeshift scanner. Lerk jizzing around? No problem, burn them a bit, they will run. When they run, it is the easiest to chase them down with your insanely long range. At least if you can deal the DPS before they are out of range, hah.

    In Tremulous on the other hand, people rarely use the flamethrower not because it's weak (rather, it deals one of the highest DPS in the game) but because it can kill the user and the flame projectile travels quite slowly which makes it quite difficult to hit enemies with. You can't use it while in a vent because you just about burn yourself since the flame projectile is likely to hit the ceiling where you crouch (since the projectile size is quite large, 1x1x1 meter) and you can burn yourself by simply walking backwards then walking forwards because the projectile carries your velocity. The flame thrower uses 85% of your velocity and it doesn't travel very fast. Because jetpacks are disabled for half a second with self damage, it's almost impossible to use well with a jetpack. Totally not OP since it was essentially useless at chasing down larger aliens and a shotgun (which costs 2.7 times cheaper) was more reliable at annihlating smaller life forms without killing yourself so easily. However because of the large splash damage and flame projectile hitbox, it is still somewhat easier to kill small aliens with in terms of kills over time.

    Some of these "features" could be brought over into NS2 such as the ability to kill yourself easily. Now I upped the DPS and enabled friendly fire to 100% (defaults to 33% when enabled) on my TremNS2 server but people complained about it being too OP. Self-burn is very insignificant. There's double damage vs structures (which I forgot to disable at the time, but that is irrelevant for PVP combat).

    I honestly think the FF can get a buff, considering it only deals slightly more DPS (~6 * 7 damage *1.25 vs players * 2 vs structures) than a welder (30 DPS *1.25 vs players * 2 vs structures), but if it were to get any higher than let's say, 80 raw DPS before modifiers, I think it needs to be reworked.
    Vetinari wrote: »
    Another idea would be to buff the "setting things on fire" aspect of it and use it for area denial. (E.g. Bathe a room in flames, aliens now can't touch anything in there for 10 seconds without seriously getting hurt.)

    That indeed would also be a nice addition. If you think logically, flamethrowers don't completely burn unless they are 'atomised' efficiently, leaving fuel all over the place.
    Stark
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Energy reduction when flamed is actually quite significant. It is also on the verge of frustrating when you're fighting a flamer as a lerk and run out of energy and can't deliver that last bite. Add another marine with a flamer, and basically they can disable an alien attack-wise.

    The only change i'm keen on seeing (beside prolonged area fires) is to help new players understand the roles of the weapons in the marine arsenal. There are sooooo many rookie and irregular players who just buy GLs and FTs, even though the actual objective at the given time is fighting lifeforms, not taking down hives. It should be emphasized that those weapons are SUPPORT class, and should be bought only in special circumstances. Well, objectively anyway. I too enjoy setting aliens on fire at any time :D
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    cooliticHandschuh
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Make the flamethrower better at a range but weaker up close like the other marine weapons.(sans shotgun)

    As in, narrow the fire cone, increase the maximum range by 2x, halve the on contact damage, increase the time/stacks it takes to set a lifeform on fire but also increase the on fire damage over time.

    Currently flamethrowers have to compete with aliens at the alien's best damage range, despite having incredibly low damage output. This change would allow flamethrowers to combat fast moving lifeforms at a greater distance but still allow skulks to take them out if they close the gap.
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