The game is too easy...

SushiDiver500SushiDiver500 Join Date: 2016-05-28 Member: 217686Members Posts: 33 Advanced user
Subnautica is one of my top favourite games of all times, it has given me many great hours. Each new update is another adventure!
But im going to have to address the elephant in the room... The game is hardly ever challenging if you have played it for a while. I have personally played since the cyclops introduction, and i know the location of every biome, explored most of them fully, and i have tried nearly all base pieces and vehicle upgrades. You can "complete" the game and get all the items and blueprints in one single afternoon.

Maybe its just me who has squeezed all the juice out of Subnautica, because the game has rather low replay value.
The devs can patch up the wound by giving the game a "hard mode" or something in that genre that subnautica veterans or new players who want a challenge can play, or they could just rack up the overall difficulty.

Im not saying that they should smash us into the difficulty wall and make it like Halo L.A.S.O (Legendary, all skulls on.) campaign, but make a challenging but playable game expirience, what do you guys think about racking up the difficulty?
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Comments

  • lonelywolflonelywolf Sweden Join Date: 2015-05-21 Member: 204737Members Posts: 27 Advanced user
    More Enemies would be Nice and remove those big flying flat fishes.
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  • RainstormRainstorm Montreal (Quebec) Join Date: 2015-12-15 Member: 210003Members Posts: 1,050 Advanced user
    Im one of those who'se been playing this game for along time now and i gotta say i hardly die alot as well. Most of the time its due to my temerity in going farther than i should and drown lol. Altho i hardly believe they'll ever introduce difficulties apart for the Hardcore mode, simply because this game isnt diablo, Halo or any games of the like that pushes you to become stronger and faster and stronger. Its more a game of discovery, exploration and experience that highly focuses on its story than on the KILL KILL KILL aspect other games might have. It rather aims at making you smarter as you go to develop your own strategies to alleviate a specific problematic situation.

    They might introduce new lifeforms but i wouldnt think they'd be more deadly than, say, the warpers for instance. There might be the ghost leviathan later on but from what i've read there will be just one, down in the Lost River. They've already increase the numbers of sand sharks in the past making the game more dangerous but simply increasing the numbers of predators is kind of a gimp way to artificially increase a game's difficulty imo .....

    so i dunno how they'd make the game more challenging for those of us who hardly dies anymore due to our knowledge of the game world and its mechanics
    The devs can patch up the wound by giving the game a "hard mode" or something in that genre that subnautica veterans or new players who want a challenge can play, or they could just rack up the overall difficulty.

    Im not saying that they should smash us into the difficulty wall and make it like Halo L.A.S.O (Legendary, all skulls on.) campaign, but make a challenging but playable game expirience, what do you guys think about racking up the difficulty?

    ''rack up the difficulty'' Could you please precise you thoughts friend, like examples of what you think would contribute at making the game harder


    Nir
  • Mr_EndarMr_Endar Join Date: 2016-03-05 Member: 213859Members Posts: 135 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    No its not.

    If you are looking for a game that will be challenging after hundreds of hours try some multiplayer games
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  • JudgeRhadamanthusJudgeRhadamanthus The Internet Join Date: 2015-10-01 Member: 208246Members Posts: 57 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    OP, you are making no sense. Your complaint, as I see it, is that something you have spent many hours learning and becoming an expert on is no longer something you are not an expert in. You are a contradiction of introspection. The only way to address your complaint is to re-write the game. Move every fragment, re-map every biome and change the story. You are in effect asking for Subnautica 2.

    My advice, as this is a thread asking for input from the community: Leave. Return at no point in time. What you ask will never become reality. Your complaint is selfish and your expectation focused on yourself.
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  • scifiwriterguyscifiwriterguy Sector ZZ-9-Plural Z-α Join Date: 2017-02-14 Member: 227901Members Posts: 858 Advanced user
    Sounds like any game if you put enough time into it. I can probably win the entire Mass Effect trilogy in my sleep at this point, but that's because I've played them so much I have it down cold. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing them again. Likewise, in Subnautica, I have a good bead on where everything is as well, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy starting over from scratch and doing it all again.

    When it comes right down to it, you can godmode nearly any game if you take the time to learn it backwards and forwards. In other words, it's like a pro football player saying the game's too easy. After that much training, of course it's reflex.

    Look, if you really want to up the difficulty for some reason, go ahead and mod your values. Give yourself 10% of your normal health and oxygen. You can make yourself a hard mode that's as tough as you want. Just don't complain when a biter 86's your butt with a single chomp.
    The poor mesmer. Beautiful fish. Too bad it's named after a jerk.
    Mr_EndarKyman201GreybeardSP_Kenny
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut Habitat Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Members Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    I never died much in this game, not even my early save files. My biggest (non-bug) risk is when I start a new file and overestimate how long I can stay submerged without the better gear. I rather like it; I do feel "pressure" to pay attention to my surroundings, but I don't feel like I have to be perfect about it. It's nice when a game manages to get you invested in your skill without going for the die trying angle.

    There's a few things I'd like to see to up the difficulty, like the Cyclops no longer being indestructible (and needing that fourth docking bay fragment; anyone know what the status is on that?) and uranite producing radiation, but that's not going to make a huge change.
    scifiwriterguyMyrm
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members Posts: 676 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Myrm wrote: »
    There is no elephant in the room. "The game is hardly ever challenging if you have played it for a while"; you can say that about any game.

    Absolutely wrong. I can think of plenty of games which stay challenging after hundreds of hours.
    If you really want a list I'll happily provide you with one, but really, I think we all know of games that don't get much easier just because you "master" them.

    Anyway, OP, of course Subnautica is easy once you know what you're doing. It's not a strategy game or a turn based tactics game, it's a freaking survival game.
    And survival games will always be easy, and even easier once you understand the mechanics.
    Survival games have the very least replay value (in my opinion, of course, I'm sure some people can bang their head against a wall for days on end and still call it fun, but not me) of all games because of the exact nature of them. Once you identify how to deal with a threat, you can deal with it.

    It's not like, say, X-Com, where the threat changes, surprises and outwits you.
    It's not like a strategy game where things play out differently every single time, keeping you on edge.

    It's a static world which has to behave one way, and only one way, to do it's job.
    Unfortunately that means it has no real replay value unless you enjoy doing the same thing more than once. It is what it is.
    If you actually want some real advice, I suggest doing what I've done, and not actually play the game for ages.
    I totally burned out on Subnautica, as I've mentioned plenty of times before, and I found it really, really boring for a while.

    But now I've not played for about 6 months and I'm actually beginning to really look forward to playing it again when release comes.

    TL;DR: Of course it's too easy, it's a survival game!
    NolrovosMyrmWodenifferous
  • Mr_EndarMr_Endar Join Date: 2016-03-05 Member: 213859Members Posts: 135 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Absolutely wrong. I can think of plenty of games which stay challenging after hundreds of hours.
    StarCraft, Team Fortress, Counter Strike, Mortal Combat, Skullgirls, LoL, Chess ... Hm... what all these games have in common?
    It's not like, say, X-Com, where the threat changes, surprises and outwits you.
    After 100 hours of XCOM it becomes easy.
    Unless you play on Impossible with Iron man (no saves) enabled. I must admit I have failed to win in this conditions. Guys with several hundreds of hours says it is easy as well.
    But regular Impossible or Classic+IronMen? Pfff peace of cake.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members Posts: 676 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Mr_Endar wrote: »
    Absolutely wrong. I can think of plenty of games which stay challenging after hundreds of hours.
    StarCraft, Team Fortress, Counter Strike, Mortal Combat, Skullgirls, LoL, Chess ... Hm... what all these games have in common?
    It's not like, say, X-Com, where the threat changes, surprises and outwits you.
    After 100 hours of XCOM it becomes easy.
    Unless you play on Impossible with Iron man (no saves) enabled. I must admit I have failed to win in this conditions. Guys with several hundreds of hours says it is easy as well.
    But regular Impossible or Classic+IronMen? Pfff peace of cake.

    Ah come on, there's loads of single player games that are still challenging. Especially in the Indie market. Darkest Dungeon? FTL? Infested Planet? I recently played Hotline Miami again, and that's a challenge no matter how good you are, because random things will always happen. Every time you play the AI acts completely differently. And from that, comes the challenge. You might still beat the game, but compared to any survival game, it's a thousand times more challenging.

    Go and play Shadow Tactics, or Ultimate General, then try telling me the only consistently hard games are multiplayer. Go and play Skyshine's Bedlam, or the Banner Saga.
    (The Banner Saga games can get easier, once you learn them, actually. But still a thousand times harder than any survival game, because the enemy can be completely unpredictable.)

    And no X-Com player worth a damn plays vanilla. Long War Iron Man is the only way to play it. When people talk about X-Com being hard, it's Long War they're really talking about.
    I am one of those guys with several hundreds of hours and I wouldn't ever consider playing vanilla X-Com, because you're right, it's too easy for an experienced player.

    But even vanilla X-Com, on easy difficulty, is still harder than most survival games. Because you actually have to think about what you're doing, where you're moving your units, how to best engage the enemy. You have to actually think. Survival games require nearly no thought.

    This is not counting first play throughs, obviously. When you don't know about a game, any genre can be hard. The whole point is lack of replay value, once you know how the mechanics work.
    A second play of X-Com Long War is just as challenging as the first.
    A second play of Subnautica is nowhere near as challenging as the first.

    It's just a question of genre. Strategy games can have a completely unpredictable and random element. Survival games don't, because their entire function relies on reliable, repeatable facets.
    Apples and oranges.

    I'm sure I've had this exact conversation about 5 or so times on these forums already. Serious déjà vu.
    Post edited by EnglishInfidel on
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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    If you are a Quake/UT/Natural Selection player or similar fast paced twitch shooter games where situational awareness is key. Subnautica probably would be childsplay apart from the random noclip hacking leviathans,
    or perhaps the first encounter with the kamikaze explody fish


    The funny thing is, I for one tend to break a game's AI or scripted sequences A LOT. Apparently that's why them NS2 devpeeps loved and hated me as a playtester

    Brian: "I got it fixed!!!!!"
    Kouji: "Let's see about that... Nope and I found some more issues!" :naughty:
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    5430812199_3b06f791cb.jpg



    I can only imagine a lot of pubstars or better players (especially speedrunners), have these same issues with many games. Where the majority of players call those those games hardmode, yet veteran FPS players are curious as to when/where this hardmode starts... It's usually because I'm moving too fast or react in ways the designers didn't anticipate. Ending in quite hilarious moments, or in some cases unintentionally exploiting an AI's blindspots. So it either gets stuck or just doesn't know how to handle your location or movement :D

    This is of course hard to accomplish in Subnautica, but our underwater game here is also quite slow paced, so it tends to be, like most survival games where you level up, a bit easier on the playtrough shenanigan headaches. So getting into trouble is from my point of view rather... Well quite random or hard to do actually, unless you intentionally take too much risk or are indeed lacking that situational awareness. Which isn't a bad thing at all, it's just something I've noticed in a lot of casual players and I love ya all the same. I actually find it hilarious, when I get killed by the actions of a teammate revealing my location unintentionally (I'm glutton for punishment, makes stuff more interesting IMHO :tongue:) Heck the cool thing is that for casuals, that lack of situational awareness gives the them an easier time to get more immersed into the game (apart from sometimes getting lost and annoyed by death around every corner \o/ )
    Post edited by Kouji_San on

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  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Well with that rant over... Maybe we need a nightmare mode for the wannabe or actual "pro-gamers" out there.


    I mean Subnautica is mostly catering to the casual players... Mostly...


    So a nightmare mode where, what?
    - Faster moving, more aggressive, harder hitting beasts of dewn
    - 1 or 2 hit leviathan kills
    - Longer nights
    - Less energy production and more energy consumption
    - More hunger
    - A meteorite storm hitting you every 5 minutes

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" AdminModerator

    Existence Unknown

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  • Kyman201Kyman201 Washington State Join Date: 2016-01-23 Member: 211880Members Posts: 380 Advanced user
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Well with that rant over... Maybe we need a nightmare mode for the wannabe or actual "pro-gamers" out there.


    I mean Subnautica is mostly catering to the casual players... Mostly...


    So a nightmare mode where, what?
    - Faster moving, more aggressive, harder hitting beasts of dewn
    - 1 or 2 hit leviathan kills
    - Longer nights
    - Less energy production and more energy consumption
    - More hunger
    - A meteorite storm hitting you every 5 minutes

    -Spawn in the Aurora and die instantly when the ship explodes
    -Double resource costs of everything. EVERYTHING.
    -Titanium Scrap can only be obtained by fighting off aggressive Stalkers.
  • GreybeardGreybeard USA Join Date: 2016-09-24 Member: 222538Members Posts: 75 Advanced user
    My normal response (and my favorite), is the old: "Look out everyone, we got us a bad ass over here!" But I'll refrain, and go for a more elaborate, less snarky response (shocker, I know!)

    Yep, like most survival/exploration games, once you get a safe zone going, and manage to meet your needs, then things ease up, as they should. Future play throughs become even easier, because you know what to do, and how to be efficient.

    Minecraft, 7 Days to Die, well... all these types of games are like this, really... and that's okay. The progression, learning the systems, becoming efficient, learning your surroundings, making your quality of life better and easier, are all what make the game fun, and are kind of the point of the game (yeah yeah, subjectivity and all that). Random maps can help with this a little, in some games. Aside from creatures suddenly gaining more hit points and dealing more damage, and your needs max/min suddenly changing, there's not much to be done about it, it's the nature of the games.

    If forced to use a bad simile, it's like playing golf and wishing the game moved at a faster pace, and had physical contact.
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  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NY Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Members Posts: 1,329 Advanced user
    Play it in Hardcore Mode and don't use any of the vehicles...

    It's really not that hard to come up with ways to make the game more entertaining for oneself, if one actually tries.
    B)
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  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 US Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Members Posts: 5,241 Advanced user
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Play it in Hardcore Mode and don't use any of the vehicles...

    It's really not that hard to come up with ways to make the game more entertaining for oneself, if one actually tries.
    B)

    I was gonna say, hardcore mode not hard enough for you?
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  • scifiwriterguyscifiwriterguy Sector ZZ-9-Plural Z-α Join Date: 2017-02-14 Member: 227901Members Posts: 858 Advanced user
    Get in Lifepod 6. ;)
    The poor mesmer. Beautiful fish. Too bad it's named after a jerk.
  • RalijRalij US Join Date: 2016-05-20 Member: 217092Members Posts: 602 Advanced user
    Having a more in-depth survival mode might be nice. All the predators are slow as turtles and only the reaper can catch you if you have the seaglide, even with the fins you can escape from most without much difficulty.

    Once you get past the fear of the unknown the game is quite easy.
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  • MyrmMyrm Sweden Join Date: 2015-08-16 Member: 207210Members Posts: 1,052 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Absolutely wrong.

    You talk absolute rot :D

    WelcomeToAccord
  • robotflyrobotfly Virginia Join Date: 2015-07-16 Member: 206185Members Posts: 50 Advanced user
    lonelywolf wrote: »
    More Enemies would be Nice and remove those big flying flat fishes.

    You dare wish distruction of our reefback overlords!

    Death to the Heathen!! All glory to the reefbacks!
    Hey there, just your average scum of the earth brony. :smile:
    MyrmRalijWelcomeToAccordTraildawg
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members Posts: 676 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Myrm wrote: »
    Absolutely wrong.

    You talk absolute rot :D

    If you want me to take you seriously you'll have to actually provide some evidence that what I said is wrong. I don't think you can. I did, in the end, provide lots of examples of games that stay challenging even after 100+ hours because of the random nature of gameplay.

    It's not just my opinion, it's a fact. They exist. You can "disagree" with every single one of my posts, but you're still wrong.

    It's weird when people fanboy so hard they perceive even objective truths as falsehoods.
  • MyrmMyrm Sweden Join Date: 2015-08-16 Member: 207210Members Posts: 1,052 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    Myrm wrote: »
    Absolutely wrong.

    You talk absolute rot :D

    If you want me to take you seriously you'll have to actually provide some evidence that what I said is wrong. I don't think you can. I did, in the end, provide lots of examples of games that stay challenging even after 100+ hours because of the random nature of gameplay.

    It's not just my opinion, it's a fact. They exist. You can "disagree" with every single one of my posts, but you're still wrong.

    It's weird when people fanboy so hard they perceive even objective truths as falsehoods.

    EnglishInfidel. Dry your eyes, princess! No, I do not want you to take me seriously here. My reply was tongue-in-cheek, hence the emoticon. I was saying, humorously, "How dare he say I am wrong!" :D Now go buy yourself some cotton wool and wrap yourself up in it. ;)

    PS> Note my use of emoticons in this reply. HINT: I am joking.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel Canada Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Members Posts: 676 Advanced user
    Okay Dude, I can respect that. Banter's all good with me. Hard to tell sometimes, you know how it is.

    wncnmk8sjdxw.gif
    wowwink
  • MerandixMerandix Netherlands Join Date: 2016-01-05 Member: 210951Members Posts: 40 Fully active user
    It's the nature of survival games. That's why most survival games also have a creative building aspect to them, and it's also why so many players ask for more options in base building and vehicle modification. Because that creative aspect is -usually- where the replayability has to come from for the majority of players. Other games try to keep it a bit fresh with procedurally generated maps. But Subnautica is story-based, so no option there.

    Best advice for if Subnautica is 'too easy' is unfortunately to find another game that's a bit more challenging. This game doesn't revolve around killing, so when the devs would 'rack up the difficulty' and up damage on creatures, up their tenacity for chasing, up their speed etc. in a hardcore mode, there would be a tipping point. At one side of that tipping point, you'd be saying the game is too easy, and beyond the tipping point (almost) no one can survive and the fun goes out of the door.

    Wanting to be challenged in difficulty is a bit of an 'FPS-curse' which makes the enjoyment of many survival games a little harder.
    WarvisResolutionBlaze
  • SushiDiver500SushiDiver500 Join Date: 2016-05-28 Member: 217686Members Posts: 33 Advanced user
    Please dont pour your shit-bucket on me yet...
    Maybe if the devs put in stuff like this?
    -Diver illness, if you go up/down too quickly you get hurt. (Balance with better O2 capacity)
    -Suit durability.
    -Cyclops shouldnt be "invulnerable" to creatures.
    -Getting bitten by an alien shark would be alot more Lethal than presented in the game.
    -Status effect/perks
    -100m water pressure is not very nice to the body.
    -You lose more items when dead.
    -Reasonable construction cost.
    ResolutionBlaze0x6A7232Rainstorm
  • MyrmMyrm Sweden Join Date: 2015-08-16 Member: 207210Members Posts: 1,052 Advanced user
    Okay Dude, I can respect that. Banter's all good with me. Hard to tell sometimes, you know how it is.

    No proplem; that's the thing with social media, it's not always easy to send the right sentiment. Plus my English isn't probably developed enough to put things in the right context.
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    OP, you are making no sense. Your complaint, as I see it, is that something you have spent many hours learning and becoming an expert on is no longer something you are not an expert in. You are a contradiction of introspection. The only way to address your complaint is to re-write the game. Move every fragment, re-map every biome and change the story. You are in effect asking for Subnautica 2.

    My advice, as this is a thread asking for input from the community: Leave. Return at no point in time. What you ask will never become reality. Your complaint is selfish and your expectation focused on yourself.

    I've never heard a more absurd reply in this forum.

    First of all, it makes the assumption of the OPs intent. That the only way to make rhe game challenging is rewriting it. That assumption is ignorant. They want to have the game be challenging despite having visited all the biomes and being an expert. And you proceed to attack the OP for having the opinion YOU asserted on them. Now you're just making an a** of yourself.

    Second, your call it selfish (for an opinion he never really stated) to make IMPROVEMENTS TO THE GAME!!! What is wrong with you people? Do you want this game to die at launch? Because the legitimate concern is that everyone has already traversed the game and already knows the story by now. Nobody is going to buy the game at launch because we already been through the buggy mess ourselves. Without a difficulty spike at launch, I doubt most of you would play the game more than a few times after Launch unless you force yourself to or when an update happens that adds a fish or two.

    God forbid they make a game challenging, especially a game with survival elements! God forbid we have a little more innovation. Please try to expand outside your narrow thinking and see the bigger picture of all this.

    Now go sit down and take a chill pill before going on an unjustified tangent.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

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  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    Merandix wrote: »
    It's the nature of survival games. That's why most survival games also have a creative building aspect to them, and it's also why so many players ask for more options in base building and vehicle modification. Because that creative aspect is -usually- where the replayability has to come from for the majority of players. Other games try to keep it a bit fresh with procedurally generated maps. But Subnautica is story-based, so no option there.

    Best advice for if Subnautica is 'too easy' is unfortunately to find another game that's a bit more challenging. This game doesn't revolve around killing, so when the devs would 'rack up the difficulty' and up damage on creatures, up their tenacity for chasing, up their speed etc. in a hardcore mode, there would be a tipping point. At one side of that tipping point, you'd be saying the game is too easy, and beyond the tipping point (almost) no one can survive and the fun goes out of the door.

    Wanting to be challenged in difficulty is a bit of an 'FPS-curse' which makes the enjoyment of many survival games a little harder.

    "Survival games shouldn't be hard or challenging or require effort from the player."

    These people want a diving simulator.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    Greybeard
  • ResolutionBlazeResolutionBlaze The Dunes Join Date: 2016-04-06 Member: 215392Members Posts: 410 Advanced user
    edited March 2017
    DaveyNY wrote: »
    Play it in Hardcore Mode and don't use any of the vehicles...

    It's really not that hard to come up with ways to make the game more entertaining for oneself, if one actually tries.
    B)

    If the player has to find ways to make a game challenging by setting unnecessary challenges for themselves, then the game has failed.
    Deus Vult, Infidels.

    Reapers have a 125% chance of stealing yo Aurora Crash Zone.
    GreybeardKyman201CaptainFearlesskingkuma
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