What should be done about the health bar?

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Comments

  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,081 Advanced user
    Keep it.
    No logical reason other than for the sake of gameplay?

    If you're asking about a sort of "lore background" reasoning for the difference, then what is the reason to have health bars to begin with? I really don't care about the lore or the theme of the game, I care about the gameplay.

    Obviously health bars were implemented, because some believed it would enhance gameplay. It's for that same purpose I'm proposing this - I mean, after 20 seconds of playing the game, you're not going to think about the "inconsistency" any more are you? -I'm asking cus I don't know; do people walk around in the game thinking about lore and stuff?
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,188 admin
    Remove it.
    Aeglos wrote: »
    According to our resident horse, if we stopped complaining it means that we have accepted it.

    Hey Iron, how often should we bump threads as a reminder that we care?

    In what world has anyone stopped complaining about HP bars? I know I still contribute.

    Bump away. ;)
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    twilitebluecoolitic
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 580 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    According to our resident horse, if we stopped complaining it means that we have accepted it.

    Hey Iron, how often should we bump threads as a reminder that we care?

    In what world has anyone stopped complaining about HP bars? I know I still contribute.

    Bump away. ;)

    When did anyone stop complaining about any of the recent changes? Find me one topic on HP bars in the first page.

    Still, how often do we need to?
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited February 2017
    I don't care.
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    No logical reason other than for the sake of gameplay?

    If you're asking about a sort of "lore background" reasoning for the difference, then what is the reason to have health bars to begin with? I really don't care about the lore or the theme of the game, I care about the gameplay.

    Obviously health bars were implemented, because some believed it would enhance gameplay. It's for that same purpose I'm proposing this - I mean, after 20 seconds of playing the game, you're not going to think about the "inconsistency" any more are you? -I'm asking cus I don't know; do people walk around in the game thinking about lore and stuff?


    I'm not saying that every element needs some lore background, but if one element is inconsistent (as in "not adhering to the same principle"), then it needs an apparent explanation.

    Lerks are inconsistent in terms of movement, because they fly, but it is just logical, since they have wings.

    Your proposal would be like hiding the ammo and health bar of shotgun marines for the marine commander, if shotguns were too strong.
    Post edited by Bicsum on
    coolitic
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Posts: 8,188 admin
    Remove it.
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Still, how often do we need to?
    As long as you're contributing to the discussion and not just typing "Bump", then go for it.
    Keeping discussions going that you find important is something that's supported.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 580 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Still, how often do we need to?
    As long as you're contributing to the discussion and not just typing "Bump", then go for it.
    Keeping discussions going that you find important is something that's supported.

    I think we have already laid out all the arguments. There's really no point in repeating them especially when we are not being engaged. I wasn't the one who said that we accept it if we stopped mentioning it.

    So, yes. How often do we have to type "Bump" to show that we care?
  • alsteralster Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members Posts: 209 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    Another amazing contribution:

    How about a hardcore/realistic mode. No healthbars, no life or armour bars, no ammo count, and maybe no minimap!! Just you and the alien like the movie. Call it Natural Selection Intense.
    twiliteblueIronHorseRevanCoranaNintendowsSquishpokePOOPFACEjrgn
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 571 Advanced user
    Keep it, but tweak it.
    No need already is its called Evolve its all about immersion and atmosphere but gameplay 0
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 254 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    Months later: remove it (still).
    alster
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 704 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    Health bars do not enhance gameplay.

    All they do is help people keep track of fast moving targets (especially against dark backgrounds where they would've been harder to see) which benefits those who can aim a helluva lot more than it does those who can't.. which in turn widens the skill gap..

    They are just bad all the way around.. now lock them to the hud instead of having them follow the target in real time and problem solved.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Health bars do not enhance gameplay.

    All they do is help people keep track of fast moving targets (especially against dark backgrounds where they would've been harder to see) which benefits those who can aim a helluva lot more than it does those who can't.. which in turn widens the skill gap..

    They are just bad all the way around.. now lock them to the hud instead of having them follow the target in real time and problem solved.

    In addition, it makes the game feel more arcade-y, and the general aesthetic of it is just bad.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    IronHorse
  • alsteralster Join Date: 2003-08-06 Member: 19124Members Posts: 209 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    No need already is its called Evolve its all about immersion and atmosphere but gameplay 0

    Evolve has healthbars and look what happened to that.
    Vetinaricoolitic
  • EbichuEbichu Japan Join Date: 2014-12-09 Member: 199999Members Posts: 14 Fully active user
    Remove it.
    Remove it.
    So much time passed since this vote.
    We want a resolution!
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,593 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    *raps mug on table*

    NO MORE BARS
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
    cooliticKouji_SanBeigeAlert
  • KarpmanKarpman Join Date: 2012-11-19 Member: 172488Members Posts: 61 Fully active user
    Remove it.
    Healthbars make sense in a standard RTS, not in NS. They absolutely make it easier to track lifeforms which is an unintended consequence.

    Now, I do like how it informs rines on which target to attack. I like it a whole lot. Can that feature be separated from the visual tracking of health bars? I think so. Perhaps aliens could be shown bleeding when heavily damaged. Perhaps an audio indicator, like a distress call when brought below 33% health.
    Before you can seek answers, you must first know the right questions.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    Ebichu wrote: »
    Remove it.
    So much time passed since this vote.
    We want a resolution!

    They'll remove the healthbars after UWE releases the Natural Selection mod for Half-Life 3
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    Kouji_SantwiliteblueBeigeAlert
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,593 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    #notmyhealthbars
    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to play Natural Selection 2. The gameplay is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of military strategy and advanced mathematics you won't even win a single game. Theres also the game's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into the game. The maps and artwork draw heavily from Riddley Scott's Alien franchise, for instance. The players understand this stuff, they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depth of the game, to realise that it's not just great, that it also says something about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Natural Selection 2 truly ARE idiots. of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in the Marines' existential catchphrase "how do I get to be so good", which itself is a cryptic reference to the high degree of intelligence required to play the game as intended. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion when spectating a game. What fools... how I pity them. And, yes, by the way, i DO have a Fade tatoo. And no, you cannot see it. it's for the ladies' eyes only, and even then they have to demonstrate that they are within 50 hive skill points of my own (preferable lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid.
  • IxianIxian Denmark Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 182 Advanced user
    Comms already have the ability to view the health of any unit or structure in the game - requires visibility and having marked it though, but it is there.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members Posts: 2,774 Advanced user
    Wob wrote: »
    Give health bars to comms but not to field players

    I don't know if it counts as unnecessary communication, but I remember in NS1 commander being able to call alien HPs to the team added some much needed interaction between marines and commander. As commander I could call "Onos red!" and that point it's up to the marines to make a decision on whether they chase or whether they utilize the info that onos has to heal up for quite a while.

    Over there the information share felt really nice. Good commander and good marine both had unique insight to the situation and they could share that information while still letting the other player to make the actual decisions. At best moments it felt like both marine and commander could help each other a lot, but they rarely had to step on each other's toes in decisionmaking.
    HandschuhBicsum
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    But then how am I supposed to bluff as an onos?
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    antouKarpman
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Posts: 3,455 Advanced user
    Keep it, but tweak it.
    coolitic wrote: »
    But then how am I supposed to bluff as an onos?

    You won't need to. As soon as you break line of sight, the Onos goddess Bona blesses you with her holy shield, instantly restoring all your armor, so you may fight another engagement with renewed spirit. And armor.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

    I am good Onos
    The_Welsh_WizardHandschuhcooliticBeigeAlertIronHorse
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    I was once redeemed and found a grenade at the hive

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  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 704 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    Nothing on trello yet about fixing hp bars...

    It's been so long at this point that the PDT is basically saying **** you to everyone who dislikes them..
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 373 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    And then you hear from them:
    "We continue to receive lot of positive feedback to many of the changes we’ve made ...."
    The_Welsh_WizardKarpmancooliticEbichu
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 940 Advanced user
    Keep it.
    Vetinari wrote: »
    coolitic wrote: »
    But then how am I supposed to bluff as an onos?

    You won't need to. As soon as you break line of sight, the Onos goddess Bona blesses you with her holy shield, instantly restoring all your armor, so you may fight another engagement with renewed spirit. And armor.

    Wasn't boneshield changed so you only regenerate armor when being shot?
    return to zero
  • KarpmanKarpman Join Date: 2012-11-19 Member: 172488Members Posts: 61 Fully active user
    Remove it.
    Handschuh wrote: »
    And then you hear from them:
    "We continue to receive lot of positive feedback to many of the changes we’ve made ...."

    Regular forum posters do not speak for everyone. Usually forums provide a subset of players that is small compared to the overall playerbase, so forum opinions are not universal by any means. Furthermore, assuming the devs and community managers are acting in bad faith is just a terrible idea. It's not impossible, I've seen it before, but here I have yet to see any indication that anyone is less than sincere.
    Before you can seek answers, you must first know the right questions.
    The_Welsh_WizardSupaFredVetinaritwiliteblueHandschuh
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    Karpman wrote: »
    Handschuh wrote: »
    And then you hear from them:
    "We continue to receive lot of positive feedback to many of the changes we’ve made ...."

    Regular forum posters do not speak for everyone. Usually forums provide a subset of players that is small compared to the overall playerbase, so forum opinions are not universal by any means. Furthermore, assuming the devs and community managers are acting in bad faith is just a terrible idea. It's not impossible, I've seen it before, but here I have yet to see any indication that anyone is less than sincere.

    It is still in no conceivable way "a lot of positive feedback", no matter how you spin it.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 766 Advanced user
    Remove it.
    coolitic wrote: »
    Karpman wrote: »
    Handschuh wrote: »
    And then you hear from them:
    "We continue to receive lot of positive feedback to many of the changes we’ve made ...."

    Regular forum posters do not speak for everyone. Usually forums provide a subset of players that is small compared to the overall playerbase, so forum opinions are not universal by any means. Furthermore, assuming the devs and community managers are acting in bad faith is just a terrible idea. It's not impossible, I've seen it before, but here I have yet to see any indication that anyone is less than sincere.

    It is still in no conceivable way "a lot of positive feedback", no matter how you spin it.

    It is just the common argument many devs use to ignore feedback.
    Handschuh
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