NS modification and add-on broker system

SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
edited June 2007 in Ideas and Suggestions
- a way to comercially enhance the NS community
Suggestion (again): NS modification broker system

The NS community makes a lot of cool stuff, and perhaps with NS2 even more cool stuff will be made.

I have found over the years that tracking down these modifications, scripts and goodies can be a bit difficult.

I think Unknown Worlds should make a “NS mod broker” or “NS mod exchange” on your website.

It should work like an ordinary web shop where I (player/consumer) could buy modifications, addons, maps, and all the other cool stuff the community makes. When I do buy something, the cash should be shared between the contributor and Unknown Worlds.

Example 1: Somebody makes a cool extra client-side effect which adds screams and gory effects when marines die from Skulk bites. The price is 4 USD. I pay with my VISA card, and the developer splits the money with Unknown Worlds.

Example 2: Somebody makes a cool script which allows lerks to lift up alien players and fly them to other places. The developer wants to share his work free of charge, so he sets the price to 0 USD. Everybody can now “buy” this file and complete the checkout procedure without paying.

Example 3: Somebody makes an extensive and thorough description of a particular map, supplied with files for printout, possible team strategies, suggestions for ways to win, fallback positions, etc. The author (who is not a developer but just a really good player) sells his/hers “Map Strategy Kit” for 5 USD and splits the cash with Unknown Worlds.

The products should be supplied with simple version information and e-mail notification to end-customers when the developers upload newer version.

It would be pretty cool with such a service. And tons of other software projects already have such systems. The best example I can think of, is the myriad of commercial add-ons available for Open Source CMS platforms. Some of these commercial add-ons are very well made, and the developer deserves a buck or ten for his/her work. And most players would (in my opinion) be willing to pay for these products and services – they pay a lot more for other gaming-related things already.

The best thing about it: It does not require programming knowledge related to gaming. You could have somebody else help you out with the implementation, without using valuable resources from your game development team. And I think it would be possible to find appropriate developers who would be willing to do the work up front and receive payment if/when the service actually generates revenue at a later time.



Who would benefit

Authors and Developers
The authors and Developers would have a greater incitement to make quality add-ons. They would have access to a much larger target group of potential customers/users because users would naturally start looking for such services at the NS Mod-Exchange.

Gamers/Users
The quality and availability of add-ons would increase, leading to a better gaming experience. A central place to go looking for these files is also a great service for the end-users. This leads to more satisfied users.

Unknown Worlds
While keeping the community happy is no doubt a priority, building streams of revenue is even more important. That is just the way life works. Adding a service that makes both developers and users happy, while at the same time making profit, is a win-win-win scenario.



I could make a much more thorough description of my thoughts on this, and continue to develop new ideas around the concept. Write in the forums or throw me an e-mail if you like the idea. It’s a great way to make your community happier AND make an easy cash flow at the same time.

… Yes, you guessed it … I work with boring business stuff when I am not eating marines … ;-)

- Jesper



Btw I realise that this is more a general suggestion for Unknown Worlds and not for NS2 specifically, but there was no other suitable category in the forum.

- Jesper

Comments

  • GaidanGaidan Join Date: 2006-10-31 Member: 58132Members Posts: 53
    There is a god... really cool idea man - although with any such system there is always room for abuse, how about a system to limit absurd pricing... than again if someone pays for it...
  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Fully active user Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members Posts: 1,010 Fully active user
    I think this idea has merit but I am curious who would be legally responsible for what in this "market".
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members Posts: 3,104
    edited June 2007
    I disagree with this idea, it would discourage people to charge money what we get for free ATM. That strikes to me a bad idea.


    If you think they "deserve" a buck, why don't you donate to them?
    Post edited by Unknown User on
    I saw a radscorpion the other day.
  • SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
    QUOTE(Epidemic @ Jun 23 2007, 10:20 PM) »

    I disagree with this idea, it would discourage people to charge money what we get for free ATM. That strikes to me a bad idea.

    You seem to miss the point. How would it discourage anyone?

    I also specifically wrote an example where the price was 0 USD. If a developer wants to give his work away for free, who are we to argue? On the other hand, if he doesn't want to give his work away for free ... who are we to argue?

    I think Unknown Worlds could make honest money by being the driving force of such a marketplace, and I think it would benefit both unknown worlds, developers and end-gamers. No other gaming community has a similar business setup, and in my humble opinion they could make everybody happier if they did.

    QUOTE(Epidemic @ Jun 23 2007, 10:20 PM) »

    If you think they "deserve" a buck, why don't you donate to them?

    Who says I didn't? :-)

    ...

    About legal issues: Not a problem. A simple license agreement (yes, anyone can make a TXT file and call it an "EULA") can prevent any problem. Or there can simply be a general EULA for the entire marketplace ... "the developer has no responsibility ... bla bla bla ... ". I don't see a problem here.

    :-)

    - Jesper
  • schkorpioschkorpio I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members Posts: 3,543 Fully active user
    I think thats fair enough idea , but if you charge people it won't be used.
    Want to make an NS2 map but short on time? Join the NS2 Community Map Project
    thou shall slide!
  • SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
    QUOTE(schkorpio @ Jun 26 2007, 07:14 AM) »

    I think thats fair enough idea , but if you charge people it won't be used.

    Why not?

    Personally I would be happy to pay for a lot of extra functions. And more so if it ensured the continued development of the studd I purchased.

    As a gamer I would pay for extra client-addons (effects or maps with embedded strategies).

    As a server admin I would pay for extra administration functionality, reporting features and integration services.

    I donate a fair amount for server access, why not pay for extra content/functionality?

    Over a million people pay 15 USD a month (plus commercial addon modules) for MMORG games such as WOW. What makes you think that NS gamers wont spend 5 USD on a cool addition to their favorite FPS?

    :-)

    - Jesper
  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
    QUOTE(SplatMan_DK @ Jun 26 2007, 11:44 AM) »

    Over a million people pay 15 USD a month (plus commercial addon modules) for MMORG games such as WOW. What makes you think that NS gamers wont spend 5 USD on a cool addition to their favorite FPS?


    Because unlike WoW a better gore sprite as a pretty low addiction factor.

    And I pretty much doubt that you can make sure that those mini-mods/addons are not distributed for free through other channels. Unless of course you embed them somehow into steam, but then you would have to split between the original artist, UWE and Valve. Then there is also the issue of other people releasing much better content for free.

    And then you have also the issue of a single sprite being way to insignificant. If you release a high-definition texture pack people might pay 5$ for it. But if you release a single high-def texture noone is going to pay 10cents for it. First of all it is something that is way to small to charge a price for and secondly: Your game will look ###### if you have a single high-def texture and the rest are just low-def textures.

    Same goes for everything else. Noone is going to pay for a single super high-def lerk model because it will look out of place when compared to the other alien models.

    Things that you could charge money for, and the reasons why it might or might not work.

    -Maps. People might pay up to 2$ per map, but maps are distributed upon server connect. You can embed them into steam but that means that you will devide the community even further (look bf2 and the booster packs for an example)

    -Textures and models: 5$ for a complete model and texture overhaul with its own theme sounds fine to me. (star-craft theme for example) But the most popular themes were out of question unless you are willing to pay for a license. Then there is also the issue of servers running "sv_pure 1" or "sv_consistency 1" again you could add those packs to the consistency list but it would raise the issue of certain models-packs allowing for easier skulk detection etc.

    -Admin tools: You mentioned them, but I cannot honestly think of anything that would make an admins life easier, that is currently not available for free ad a mani-plugin.

    -Whole gameplay ideas: Capture the gorge would be a prime example in my book. If it is well done 5$ seems fine, but again it would divide to community even further into those who have CTG and those who dont.



    Additional pay-for content that does not come in form of an official expansion pack seems more suited for pure single player games to me.

    Selling some super duper overkill weapon in Oblivion for 5 bucks: Well, why not.

    Selling some super duper overkill weapon in Diablo2 for 5 bucks: Not so bright.
    QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
    The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
    QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 10:55 AM) »

    Because unlike WoW a better gore sprite as a pretty low addiction factor.

    With all respect, I disagree. I would gladly par an extra 2-5 USD for extra gory effects and screams when I chew up marines as a skulk, or other similar effects.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 10:55 AM) »

    And I pretty much doubt that you can make sure that those mini-mods/addons are not distributed for free through other channels.

    If people want to cheat and steal, that is their own problem. But by keeping the price low, the marketplace would add value to the end-gamers because they only need to look for the goodies here. Not at a gazillion different (and often poorly designed) websites or pirate networks.

    In addition, being a paying customer is your way of supporting the continued development of the product. It is the reason many have become constallation members: to support the community and continued development. I see no reason the same mechanism could not apply to smaller projects.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 10:55 AM) »

    Then there is also the issue of other people releasing much better content for free.

    As I specifically wrote, it should be possible to set a price of 0 USD in the NS marketplace if a developer wants to donate his work for free. Not a problem. The marketplace keeps things easy for the end-gamer and provides a much stronger audience for the developer. Everobody wins.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 10:55 AM) »

    Same goes for everything else. Noone is going to pay for a single super high-def lerk model because it will look out of place when compared to the other alien models.

    I agree that single HiDef models would not be the first items I would purchase. But I would certainly pay for addons which encanced my gaming experience. Marines screaming when they are being bitten/eaten, bodies cut in half on the floor in a pool of blood, etc.

    I would probably also pay for strategies, map posters in PDF format, instruction videos, and other things which could help an entire team. A collection of such items in a "Strategy kit" for a particular map would be great.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 10:55 AM) »

    -Maps. People might pay up to 2$ per map, but maps are distributed upon server connect. You can embed them into steam but that means that you will devide the community even further.

    So? Make it a server-license. The server admin pays 2-5 USD for the map, and gets support, continued updates, and the right to pass the map on to any player who connects. If someone steals the map for another server, thats just too bad. But I honestly think most serious server admins would shoose to support the community and the map-makers rather than trying to pirate a 2-5 USD product...

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 10:55 AM) »

    -Admin tools: You mentioned them, but I cannot honestly think of anything that would make an admins life easier, that is currently not available for free ad a mani-plugin.

    I can think of many. External tools for CMS integration. User editor tools. Integration with Active Directory. Reports and statistics. Hell ... why not propegate the NS game log straight into an OLAP cube? Would be the coolest thing that ever happened to FPS game statistics!

    I respect that you don't like the idea. If you don't, just keep your credit card in your pocket and stick to the things available for 0 USD. But nothing you have said has made me change my mind about the whole "NS Marketplace" concept.

    :-)

    - Jesper
  • SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
    QUOTE(nizb0ag @ Jun 26 2007, 11:43 AM) »

    I vote NO.

    Fair enough - everobody is entitled to an opinion :-)

    Would you care to put a few more words on your opposition? Since the proposed NS marketplace would support the idea of free mods (price of 0 USD) what are your arguments for not wanting this kind of service?

    - Jesper
  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
    edited June 2007
    QUOTE(SplatMan_DK @ Jun 26 2007, 01:44 PM) »

    I respect that you don't like the idea. If you don't, just keep your credit card in your pocket and stick to the things available for 0 USD. But nothing you have said has made me change my mind about the whole "NS Marketplace" concept.

    :-)

    - Jesper


    I am pretty sure nothing can change the fact that you are willing to dish out money for things that are currently provided for free. If you want, I can sell you some air.

    Anyway, there are lot of problems you are going to run into when thinking about distributing content through an oblivion like marketplace.

    -How do you decide which content to put on and which not?
    If you make it free 4 all, you will end with people trying to rip of others, by false advertising and such.
    This pretty much means that you have to regulate it and have people send in applications with their content. Then you review and check the content and put it online.

    -How do you prevent people from using content they did not buy?
    Well you could do the same you are currently doing with the consti icons. Every user has an account and that account is tied to the products he bought through the marketplace. Then he can link this account to his steam id and everytime you connect to a server the server will what custom content you are allowed to use.
    Problem: Just like with the consti icons server admins can just use mani-plugins to give their users icons/custom content etc or also disable the custom content check.

    -It is a multiplayer game. This means that everyone not having the same models etc will result in certain players having advantage over others, while they should not.

    -It is too easy to steal/share.
    Lets assume that I bought a starcraft theme pack through the marketplace. Although it is protected by the account-steam_id link (which is described above) I can still easily rip the content by extracting the different files, renaming them and then replacing them with the original files. Same goes for maps.

    -Are you really expecting a huge sale for stuff like "Great loading Screen" confused-fix.gif How many people actually bought the oblivion horse armor? Humans are not stupid. If you create a loading screen which took you 2 workdays to create, are you really expecting people to dish out 1$ for that ? Sure, if you find 1000 idiots to buy it is really worth it, but most people will not buy it, especially if there are great and often enough even better substitutes for free.


    Thus said: Humans are not stupid! If you sell a game like Oblivion, which took at least 100000 manhours to make for 50$ you cannot expect people to pay 2$ for something that took only 20 manhours to make.

    An official UWE supported custom content page might be a great addition, but you cannot simply make money with this kind of scheme.
    QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
    The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
    QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県 Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 2,589 Advanced user
    I wouldn't mind seeing community sites like the readyroom become a site where maps and such could be found (like the old nsworld map site) though I think I would prefer having UWE focus on their own projects instead of trying to also manage community materials.
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
  • SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
    You generally see/describe a lot of problems which are common for any software or content business. You describe the same problems faced by developers and customers in the CMS business, music industry, etc.

    Many of these problems cannot be solved. At least not by us. We are not on a crusade here - we are out to find ideas which support gamers, developers and Unknown Worlds ... all in one package.

    I will attempt to address your concerns.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 01:28 PM) »

    -How do you decide which content to put on and which not?
    If you make it free 4 all, you will end with people trying to rip of others, by false advertising and such.
    This pretty much means that you have to regulate it and have people send in applications with their content. Then you review and check the content and put it online.

    I would suggest free for all, with user comments and ratings. This works great for other similar software projects, where developers make commercial add-ons for other products. Again I refer to the world of CMS platforms. You can generally get good Open Source CMS platforms, and all the major ones also have companies and developers who make commercial modules and add-ons. The add-ons (typically skins, forum modules, document and repository systems, survey systems, visual effects, etc) are exchanges in webshops where users can rate and comment on the product they bought. Another example where such user ratings/comments works great is online auctions. Without user ratings, e-bay would probably close within a week.

    In conclusion: User rating actually WORKS!

    You also suggest some kind of moderation model. That is not an approach I would rule out. Since the seller shares his/her revenue with Unknown Worlds, it is fair to assume that Unknown Worlds would be willing to do some kind of quality control of the items sold in the marketplace. I would not personally like things to be that way (there is too much manual labour involved) but it is not difficult to do. And surely the company making the moderation can decide for themselves if they want to engage in such work or not?

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 01:28 PM) »

    -How do you prevent people from using content they did not buy?

    I don't. I also dont prevent people from pirating games, music and movies. I don't pirate anything myself, but I am not on a crusade here. If people want to steal it is their own business. But generally that is not the trend in communities and with low-price products.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 01:28 PM) »

    -It is a multiplayer game. This means that everyone not having the same models etc will result in certain players having advantage over others, while they should not.

    I don't think models should be included. At least not without some kind of security model. But there are many other things which would be exchanged.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 01:28 PM) »

    -It is too easy to steal/share.

    You are repeating the same argument you already stated above. My answer is the same.

    QUOTE(Faskalia @ Jun 26 2007, 01:28 PM) »

    Thus said: Humans are not stupid! If you sell a game like Oblivion, which took at least 100000 manhours to make for 50$ you cannot expect people to pay 2$ for something that took only 20 manhours to make.

    It is impressive that you believe you KNOW what other people will or will not do :-) And my observations differ greatly from your view on things.

    Many people will buy small things for small money, if they feel it gives them value. No matter how many working hours somebody used to create it.

    This is true for art like graphics and sounds, for programming code which is difficult to make, and a lot of other things. There are people in "Second Life" who make a lot of money selling 3D objects that you and I would define as "3D junk". Yet, some people buy them.

    I am not talking about a "Green loading screen" (unless it is presented as a piece of art?). But I have given many other examples in my posts, and you have declined to comment them in any way. Alternative death scripts. Server scripts (like LerkLift). Sounds. Strategies. Maps.

    Please base your examples on my suggestions. Iinventing new and obviously horrible things which are by definition impossible to sell are not productive for the debate.

    I would also like to know if you have any alternate suggestions which may provide the same benefits for all involved. I am certainly open to other suggestions that accomplish the same goals.

    :-)

    brgds

    - Jesper
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    QUOTE(SplatMan_DK @ Jun 20 2007, 05:37 PM) »

    Suggestion (again): NS modification broker system

    The NS community makes a lot of cool stuff, and perhaps with NS2 even more cool stuff will be made.

    I have found over the years that tracking down these modifications, scripts and goodies can be a bit difficult.

    I think Unknown Worlds should make a “NS mod broker” or “NS mod exchange” on your website.

    It should work like an ordinary web shop where I (player/consumer) could buy modifications, addons, maps, and all the other cool stuff the community makes. When I do buy something, the cash should be shared between the contributor and Unknown Worlds.

    Example 1: Somebody makes a cool extra client-side effect which adds screams and gory effects when marines die from Skulk bites. The price is 4 USD. I pay with my VISA card, and the developer splits the money with Unknown Worlds.

    Example 2: Somebody makes a cool script which allows lerks to lift up alien players and fly them to other places. The developer wants to share his work free of charge, so he sets the price to 0 USD. Everybody can now “buy” this file and complete the checkout procedure without paying.

    Example 3: Somebody makes an extensive and thorough description of a particular map, supplied with files for printout, possible team strategies, suggestions for ways to win, fallback positions, etc. The author (who is not a developer but just a really good player) sells his/hers “Map Strategy Kit” for 5 USD and splits the cash with Unknown Worlds. [...]

    - Jesper

    The first two of your three examples are readily available (and have been for nearly four years) from the modNS Community Forums for absolutely free. The NS Mapping Forum :: Default - Hybrid - MvM - AvA is a work in progress and could easily provide what you've mentioned in your third example. wink-fix.gif
    image
    modNS Forums - NS1 and NS2: We Wrote The Book On NS Moddingimage
  • SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
    edited June 2007
    QUOTE(Depot @ Jun 26 2007, 03:03 PM) »

    The first two of your three examples are readily available (and have been for nearly four years) from the modNS Community Forums for absolutely free. The NS Mapping Forum :: Default - Hybrid - MvM - AvA is a work in progress and could easily provide what you've mentioned in your third example. wink-fix.gif


    I know, I know, they are all god examples ... :-)

    Thanks for confirming it though ;-)
  • BCSephBCSeph Join Date: 2005-02-24 Member: 42384Members, Constellation Posts: 223
    ...This reminds me of MS Flight Simulator:

    *Flying a plane*.....*crash* (PLEASE BUY EXPLOSION ANIMATIONS IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT EXPLODE!)

    In all reality this just seems like it would end up being a useless feature. Just look at Garry's mod. No one wants to buy/sell mods there. Modding is supposed to be a free addon. It is sort of a predecessor to real game developing. People mod in their spare time for fun with no intention of profit. Making it a market IMHO will change the modding scene for the worse. Just another way to nickel and dime people.

    In game: Talking Ant Colony
  • tjosantjosan Join Date: 2003-05-16 Member: 16374Members, Constellation Posts: 1,335
    Oh look, an anarcho liberal.

    No.
  • ReekeReeke Fully active user Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23688Members Posts: 773 Fully active user
    Gotta say no to this.
  • PikminwarsPikminwars Join Date: 2006-11-07 Member: 58468Members Posts: 137
    QUOTE
    buy modifications, addons, maps, and all the other cool stuff the community makes


    NO MICROTRANSACTIONS.

    Especially not for community made content. Try playing Gmod sometime. They have a site that works as a host for any user made content someone wants to upload, but you know what else? It's free.
    Nothing is impossible, as long as you can imagine it! That's what being a scientist is all about! -Professor Farnsworth

    http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2010/bo...2resizedfk7.png
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,724 Advanced user
    Since we'll probably get rid of this blockscript crap, it is maybe time to have something new tearing the community apart like custom content that costs money on one hand and free, open source gnu stuff on the other hand nerd-fix.gif


  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation Posts: 3,175
    I can't say I agree with your logic. The free labor if you will from volunteer creators (aka. "prosumers") of custom content is the engine that drives VALVe's mods from CS:S to TFC, from NS to Sven Co-op, from AMXX plugins to MetaMod-P. It's all free and refined by people wanting to find the best thing for their servers and just simple popularity elimination.

    Sure you can make new single player "episodes" like is being done for HL2, but this is not true for the multiplayer mods.

    vote no

    With that said, UWE should do all they can to promote this custom content and the potential of having some of this content being so awesome it becomes officially part of the game could mean world wide fame and possibly a monatary reward. Good systems to find custom content and widely available content for servers and clients will sell more copies of NS2 and that's how UWE will make profit. VALVe did exactly that with the original Half-Life engine. The sold the engine, not content. Most of the original VALVe creators who banked on this unusual tactic of selling an engine are now millionaires.
    Coined the qualitative attribute entropy in reference to game maps.
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  • KarrdKarrd Join Date: 2005-02-26 Member: 42555Members Posts: 72
    edited July 2007
    Here’s a question that seems to have not occurred to anyone: why does UWE have to be the one that puts the site/marketplace together?

    Assuming you could find some people with both the knowledge and the motivation to build something like this (and in this community I think that would hardly be an impossible task) why not effectively contract it out? Basically create a contract saying that if the people can create the site/market to a quality level that UWE agrees with that they’ll then pay a reasonable amount for it (unless you think you could find someone willing to spend that much time on a professional level project for free).

    They could even split the management of it with the people who put it together. Something along the lines of the UWE being the senior veto carrying partners with the creators, who would be the ones running the day to day part of it.

    If the idea works, UWE gets a single well made node for just about all NS content. And they get it without having to spend more of the already budgeted man-hours they have. If UWE doesn’t like what comes out of it, they can just say either to make it better or to stop.

    The only part I can conceive of that might require any real work (and only to a limited extent at that) on UWE’s part would be some sort of integration between the market content and the game itself. If you can build a way so that the content you get off the market can be configured to automatically prepare itself to be used (where all you have to do is enable/disable) it would not only make the market more successful, it would also help cut back on pirating. Because a lot of people would be willing to pay $1 to get something that takes no work to use, rather than have to hunt it down by hand and then manually get it to work.





    As to my personal opinion as to how well the idea itself will work. SplatMan_DK I doubt you'll find as many people willing to pay for the little things as you seem to think there are. At the same time to everyone else, there are people who will pay, and just because there aren't going to be millionaires made off of this doesn't mean it won't make enough money to pay for itself. Most likely, if this does get put together you'll end up with a marketplace where most of it is free, with only a number of medium/high quality products that actually get sold. The free items would help get activity, but (so long as there is quality assurance) the high quality items would be where the money would come from.

    This would work even better if some sort of support clause could be designed into selling anything in the market. Ignoring the free stuff, by adding support to the things people will pay for you'll not only get higher quality items, and be able to charge a little bit more but you'll have a lot more customers. I know a lot of people who would be more than willing to pay so that when something breaks they can just ask the maker how to fix it.


    Bottom line, this idea isn't going to revolutionize anything, it's not going to make UWE rich, and it's not perfect. It would work though, and it is a great way to make some more money for everyone involved, while helping make the community even stronger by allowing content to spread more easily. I don't see any real reason not to give it a try, assuming that you could find a way to put in the man-hours and I already pointed out how you could do that without taking away from NS2 production. I'm aware that are a few details that would need to be ironed out (for example How would you pay creators?) but the basic idea is easily workable.
    "Chance favors the prepared mind"- Sir Isaac Newton
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Members Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    People simply aren't going to be willing to pay for what's already available for free, end of story.
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  • KarrdKarrd Join Date: 2005-02-26 Member: 42555Members Posts: 72
    No one's saying they will (with the exception of when the "free" version is illegal/stolen).

    If you could get it legally elsewhere for free, why would we want to charge for it here? No one's said otherwise.

    "Chance favors the prepared mind"- Sir Isaac Newton
  • RadixRadix Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation Posts: 964
    NS isn't free. Buying HL is a major barrier to entry for a casual gamer. It's not the price, it's the fact that they're having to buy a product at all - whether or not it's the game they're looking for or a required prerequisite really doesn't change anything in regard to that.
    NS2 Idea Map - Add your next suggestion thread here if you want it to be remembered!

    http://nsdojo.net - Covering a wide array of advanced topics on one of the deepest games ever made.

    "Women aren't intuitive, ... so we would be better off without them surely." --Pheus
  • the_x5the_x5 the Xzianthian Join Date: 2004-03-02 Member: 27041Members, Constellation Posts: 3,175
    QUOTE(Radix @ Jul 18 2007, 02:09 AM) »
    NS isn't free. Buying HL is a major barrier to entry for a casual gamer. It's not the price, it's the fact that they're having to buy a product at all - whether or not it's the game they're looking for or a required prerequisite really doesn't change anything in regard to that.


    Wrong. I just introduced two new people from a GRAW clan to NS two days ago and the only $9.95 they needed to get the engine was minor and then once they played the game they felt it was money VERY well spent.
    Coined the qualitative attribute entropy in reference to game maps.
    Do not eat the dark energy balls, please.
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  • Steve0Steve0 Join Date: 2007-07-17 Member: 61615Members Posts: 80
    edited July 2007
    Im a mapper , not an awesome mapper but not a bad one either. If i was to develop a map its because i "Enjoy doing it" not for money at all.

    I have more then enough spare time atm to sit down and work on projects because its fun!. The satisfaction i get from finishing a map is when people are playing it and when you can see a server list full of your map. Then you get emails from people that say "Hi i liked your map" or people that say "Your map was crap" is just part of it.

    It would be a nice thing to get paid for a map as a bonus, but i wouldnt charge people for it tbh. It discourages people from playing it just to see whats its like. Maybe a "Donate" button rather then a "Buy" button is a better choice
  • RadixRadix Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation Posts: 964
    edited July 2007
    QUOTE(the_x5 @ Jul 18 2007, 03:23 AM) »

    Wrong. I just introduced two new people from a GRAW clan...


    QUOTE(Radix @ Jul 18 2007, 02:09 AM) »
    major barrier to entry for a casual gamer.
    NS2 Idea Map - Add your next suggestion thread here if you want it to be remembered!

    http://nsdojo.net - Covering a wide array of advanced topics on one of the deepest games ever made.

    "Women aren't intuitive, ... so we would be better off without them surely." --Pheus
  • KarrdKarrd Join Date: 2005-02-26 Member: 42555Members Posts: 72
    I think Steve0 may have just stumbled onto a good idea. Why not create options that allow maps to be given away for free, but have right next to them donations for the maker?

    Just a little idea, but it would help encourage mapping and such a little more.
    "Chance favors the prepared mind"- Sir Isaac Newton
  • SplatMan_DKSplatMan_DK Fully active user Join Date: 2006-12-04 Member: 58892Members, Constellation Posts: 16 Fully active user
    Just found this thread, a full decade after I created it. Fun to read old stuff.

    It's fun to see. Steam has implemented pretty much what I proposed. The combination of paid DLC and Workshop items covers everything.

    So, in conclusion I will submit these thoughts: The idea itself was sound and useful, and few people would prefer to be without DLC and Workshop in Steam. But not implementing it separately (in an UWE controlled portal) was a good decision, because UWE really can't compete with Steam.

    :-)
    .trixX.VetinariSantaClawscoolitic
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert admin Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,828 admin
    I was about halfway through reading the first post before I realized... ;)
    NordicSantaClawsSplatMan_DKcoolitic
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