Rookie commanders organised plays: who's interested ?

antouantou France Join Date: 2016-07-24 Member: 220615Members Posts: 68 Advanced user
edited January 2017 in Ideas and Suggestions
Hey guys.
I feel like I'm an experienced field player (sort of), but I'm only starting to explore commanding (both Marines and Aliens). I find it very intimidating because people expect me to be a better comm than I actually am. I'm sure there are many players in the same case, so I think it's worth doing something about it and give the 'noob comms' and opportunity to practice together.
I'm thinking of organised plays consisting of a 'rookie commander' on both teams, and at least one good field player on each team to help with choosing a build and strategy, and make general calls. The rest of the team can be any players, but they need to be advised that both comms are not experienced.
This training would make more people feel confident about commanding on pubs, and I think we all agree that we need those extra commanders.

This is my personal history of why I think I need that kind of practice:
  • My hive skill is around 2k.
  • If I try commanding with people around that skill level, I'm expected to be a good commander, which I'm not. Sure, I know the basics, but I lack practice so I forget things and I'm very slow; I understand it's not fun to have a comm whose medpacks always come a bit too late, or who forgets to drop a shift/crag, etc. I don't want to ruin other people's fun with my mistakes.
  • If I try commanding with people of lower skill, it breaks the balance because I'm a player with a higher hive score, but with an actually low commanding skill. I've had this case yesterday, where a player (actually the carry player of the team) told me I should not have been commander because the rest of the team was not good enough on the field against a 1k team.

I'm interested in your opinions about this. Do you also feel we need more comms ? Do you also want to learn how to command ? Do you think some people are just not made to command ? :tongue:

Rookie commanders organised plays: who's interested ? 4 votes

I want to participate as a rookie commander
25%
antou 1 vote
I want to participate as an experienced field player/coach
50%
.trixX.BeigeAlert 2 votes
I'm not interested
25%
coolitic 1 vote

Comments

  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 618 Advanced user
    Learn the hotkeys in sandbox mode. Hotkey key structures. Explore the build order if you haven't already internalised it. Even as a field player, you should already know this.

    Its really not that hard if you want to just meet the minimal requirements of being a med pack / building dispenser. Only thing you need actual game practice for is judgement (for a lot of things).

    As for commanding in pubs, you basically have to pick your poison. Do you want a bad commander that doesn't support your team properly or do you want a team that cannot win engagements/go the right places?
    coolitic
  • IxianIxian Denmark Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 182 Advanced user
    The ENSL is currently hosting a newcomers tournament. Basicly 6v6 for people who havent played competive before. All skill levels, as long as this is their first ENSL contest. All teams will have an experienced player to guide them, and show them some basics.

    No reason to go through the trouble of creating another league when this league is already open for signups! http://www.ensl.org/articles/995


    If you aren't interested in taking the time to learn it this way, I recommend this essay on commanding I wrote: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C4fxDy7ziET88oNv5srTaTRzqNdva2YxHGXpkvw2zyE/edit?usp=sharing

    The point of this essay is to give a glimse into the logic you need to apply as a commander. Apart from that, twich.tv/nsl_caperp is a commander quite mechanicly skilled. https://www.twitch.tv/s1mb4 is also an excellent comm, who unfortunately isn't playing anymore, but it goes to show what a commander should be doing with his time. You will notice he is mostly looking at marines that are likely to be engaged, and ready to med them. This is just mentioning a few of many great commanders NS2 has seen.

    Its all exploration, exploration and experience when it comes to commanding. The better the people you are playing against, the easier it will be to see your mistakes.
    Nordic
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,828 admin
    I want to participate as an experienced field player/coach
    E -> S = health pack
    E -> A = ammo pack
    Hotkey obs to 1, then it's just 1->S to recall team.

    These are really the only ones you NEED to know, and they're all for marines. Alien commanding is a bit slower paced, but if you can drifter micro well, you'll really help your team.
    E -> F = select nearest drifter.

    Over time you'll learn the others too, so you can drop structures faster, but for starting out, just know those first 3 I listed.
    Yojimbocoolitic
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 618 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    E -> S = health pack
    E -> A = ammo pack
    Hotkey obs to 1, then it's just 1->S to recall team.

    These are really the only ones you NEED to know, and they're all for marines. Alien commanding is a bit slower paced, but if you can drifter micro well, you'll really help your team.
    E -> F = select nearest drifter.

    Over time you'll learn the others too, so you can drop structures faster, but for starting out, just know those first 3 I listed.

    You forgot the most important spacebar. :|
    Vetinari
  • antouantou France Join Date: 2016-07-24 Member: 220615Members Posts: 68 Advanced user
    I want to participate as a rookie commander
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Learn the hotkeys in sandbox mode. Hotkey key structures. Explore the build order if you haven't already internalised it. Even as a field player, you should already know this.

    Its really not that hard if you want to just meet the minimal requirements of being a med pack / building dispenser. Only thing you need actual game practice for is judgement (for a lot of things).
    I'm learning the hotkeys, but I need practice. Yes I know the build orders and stuff, but I feel like I could be a better comm if I was able to adapt better during a round. I think that can come from watching other coms play or reading guides, but it's crucial to practice otherwise I just get overwhelmed.

    Ixian wrote: »
    The ENSL is currently hosting a newcomers tournament.
    No reason to go through the trouble of creating another league when this league is already open for signups! http://www.ensl.org/articles/995
    I'm aware of the NCT, I might participate in it. I'm not talking about creating a new league... just a few games now and them so people can get in the hive/CC without fearing to get ejected and flamed at the first small mistake they make.
    Ixian wrote: »
    If you aren't interested in taking the time to learn it this way, I recommend this essay on commanding I wrote: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C4fxDy7ziET88oNv5srTaTRzqNdva2YxHGXpkvw2zyE/edit?usp=sharing
    I've read your guide and I liked it, thanks for writing it. I've also watched many comm casts and I learned a lot from that. But there is a difference between watching someone play and trying to understanding his reasoning, and having to actually do things yourself at the right place, at the right time.
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    E -> S = health pack
    E -> A = ammo pack
    Hotkey obs to 1, then it's just 1->S to recall team.
    ...
    Thanks, I already use some of those (on an azerty keyboard though :smile: ). I'm glad to hear I'm not supposed to know another bunch of hotkeys to be a decent comm.



    ___

    I feel like you guys missed the point though, I wrote this post not because I want to improve my own commanding skills, but because I feel like there's a lot of players who are willing to start commanding, but never crossed the gap because it's difficult to start in the current 'ecosystem' (facing good commanders, and a team that expects you to not be a rookie comm).
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 618 Advanced user
    As long as they take the effort to learn the basics (hotkeys and build order), most people should be willing to tolerate an inexperienced commander. In fact, just being communicative goes a long way in getting your team's understanding. The majority of people I know would be glad that they don't have to command. There are relatively few dedicated commanders who prefer to be in the chair.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,746 Advanced user
    edited January 2017
    This thread makes me feel bad for not using more than health and ammo hot keys.

    There are two parts to commanding. Basic build orders and medpack/drifter micro is one part that isn't too difficult to be proficient. The other part of commanding is genuine leadership. I see very few commanders actually attempt leadership, and fewer do it well. I am not sure which part of commanding this thread is asking about, if not both.

    I find it a lot easier to command in high skill servers because less leadership is required. As long as I get upgrades in a reasonable timeframe and provide meds decently, few people complain. It is the low skill games that require leadership, but are also the least likely to respond to leadership. I get more complaints in low skill servers too.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    I want to participate as an experienced field player/coach
    Nordic wrote: »
    It is the low skill games that require leadership, but are also the least likely to respond to leadership. I get more complaints in low skill servers too.

    As a rule of thumb that is true, but I've also commanded a lot of mid-high skilled pubs where veteran players just run out to rambo and die all the time, so i had to constantly regiment and ask them where to go/what do defend x)

    Comm is also really important to organize life-form traps, since he's the only one constantly viewing the while picture.
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    Nordic
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