Propositions for Infested mode

HarmoniusZHarmoniusZ Poland Join Date: 2013-11-06 Member: 189038Members Posts: 41 Fully active user
Hello,
Let me ask if you are going to experiment with Infested mode in future updates.
The mode is entertaining but it lacks one aspect:
https://youtu.be/JjIXwkX1e48?t=120
Adding Kharaa could make it more dynamic and less monotonous. Something to make marine gameplay less passive/reactive would be also nice.

My propositions:
1. Infected can transform between skulk and human.
2. Infected can also transform into lerk after infecting at least 2 other marines.
3. Bite once to infect.
4. Flamethrower kills skulk/lerk (almost?) instantly. Health and generally gameplay of infected in human form stays as it is now.
Points 3, 4 to keep the mode casual friendly, make sure the skulk/lerk gameplay is sneakiness-based not skill-based.

Even without the above points, infected side already wins great majority of rounds, so we need more toys for Marines, especially something to give them few offensive options:
5. Marking pistol - limited (5/10?) ammo, no damage.
6. Shoot marine to make him visible on map for everyone (+aura effect?) for 10/20(?) seconds. If he's infected he can't transform into skulk.
7. If (uninfected) marked marine becomes infected his icon becomes red on map and every marine gets information in HUD (hunter-prey roles switch). He can't transform into skulk till the end of the marking effect.
8. Shoot skulk/lerk to instantly transform it into human with "red" marking effect on (just like pt 7).

Another toy for marines: laser trap with mechanics similar to gorge's web.
9. Infected caught by the laser triggers red marking effect (pt 7).
10. Laser invisible for infected, eventually small hardly visible cone(s) - just don't make it useless like the web - a trap not a barricade.
11. Laser kills uninfected instantly (prevents spy checking - a trap not a detector).
12. With 20+ players the map could (?) turn into minefield, so laser surely 1 time usage, and eventually give it only to few (half of the team?) of random players.

Any adaptation of currently existing mechanics (very limited usage of cloaking?) could make the mode more interesting, just avoid building another walls of skill.

Comments

  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,082 Advanced user
    I think the mod needs to remain simple. NS2 is notoriously complicated, needlessly I might even add. Don't make the same mistake with this mod.

    I do like 1-4, because there are problems with players taking high grounds with trickjumps etc. Adding skulks and lerks would make that much less attractive.

    The rest I don't like however.

    Also, the only reason infected wins, is because you have *** like @Nordic who keeps forcing teamkills on the best players. >:(
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,727 Advanced user
    I wanted to agree with @SantaClaws post, but I can't agree that I force team kills. He is bitter because I relentlessly wanted to work with him, but he just wanted to be alone.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 1,024 Advanced user
    Can we chill w/ all the suggestions for infested? I'm not citing just this thread, but the 311 release thread as well. It's very like ns2 players to want to over-complicate and think critically about things, i get it. But shit, enjoy it for what it is. I thinks it's pretty much SPOT on how it is now.

    BeigeAlertSoul_RiderSantaClawsZavaro
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,825 admin
    2cough wrote: »
    I thinks it's pretty much SPOT on how it is now.

    BEIGE BEAMS WITH PRIDE.
    2coughSoul_RiderSupaFred
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    2cough wrote: »
    I thinks it's pretty much SPOT on how it is now.

    Landing a quick infest isn't spot on because the detection is spotty and the distance require isn't very clear.

    Likewise, flamer hits can be spotty too because UWE won't double fire rate and halve damage, which confuses me because this seems like a great way to improve flamer hit detection for both infested and vanilla. Is this not being done because it would cause performance problems or what?
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    SantaClaws
  • Deck_Deck_ Join Date: 2014-07-20 Member: 197526Members Posts: 298 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    2cough wrote: »
    Can we chill w/ all the suggestions for infested? I'm not citing just this thread, but the 311 release thread as well. It's very like ns2 players to want to over-complicate and think critically about things, i get it. But shit, enjoy it for what it is. I thinks it's pretty much SPOT on how it is now.

    Yea, but that's like saying ns2 is good now. Of course it's good, but games need to update or people aren't as interested. Part of the reason I think ns2 keeps it's interest level is the constant work by UWE. You always feel like something is happening. My favorite time in ns2 development was when mendasp was updating ns2+ every few days it felt like. It seemed like you were getting a new game all the time.

    NS2 has a very addictive formula that is unique. They could have sat on that and gave up, but they are making the most of it. I see potential in the infected mod, it has a very addictive quality to it, but it needs constant updates to have a chance. People are commenting on ideas because I would guess they want to see the mod succeed.
    Post edited by Deck_ on
    SupaFred
  • HarmoniusZHarmoniusZ Poland Join Date: 2013-11-06 Member: 189038Members Posts: 41 Fully active user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    2cough wrote: »
    I thinks it's pretty much SPOT on how it is now.

    BEIGE BEAMS WITH PRIDE.
    Is it also the answer to my question from first sentence of my initial post? Because it'd be nice to get one from developer. If you intended to make a simple mod for the current playerbase then it's ok and I'm wasting my time. But if you intended to make new mode for casual gamers then it'd be nice to confirm that player feedback is welcomed.

    The marine side gameplay is just tedious after few hours - the best you can do to have fun is "get infested" asap. Yes, let's wait with improving the gameplay until there's "enough" players to say "there's no reason to improve because nobody plays it anymore".
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,269 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    Deck_ wrote: »
    Of course it's good, but games need to update or people aren't as interested.

    This is a big problem for me in the modern games world. What happened to the concept of finishing a game before releasing it? It bugs the hell out of me that a game cannot be released and left alone without people whinging the game is unsupported. No it's not unsupported, it's finished.

    The games I am making will be finished on release, apart from any patches needed for previously undetected issues. I hate it when games are continually updating, particularly from my standpoint as a modder. I would rather a game be finished and static so modders can do their thing.

    Imagine if Half-life was constantly updated other than bug fixes and the steam integration, modding as we know it now wouldn't exist, nor would CS, DOD, TF, NS etc.
    HarmoniusZ wrote: »
    Is it also the answer to my question from first sentence of my initial post? Because it'd be nice to get one from developer. If you intended to make a simple mod for the current playerbase then it's ok and I'm wasting my time.

    @BeigeAlert is the main developer of this mod. He would have to answer on this, but I believe this is intended to be a simple fun mod which won't undergo too much development. It's meant as a minor distraction more than a new game mode for the playerbase to concentrate on, as far as I am aware.

    This game is extremely like CSS:Zombie Mod, and in that game it was almost always an infected win, but the battle was about trying to stay alive as long as possible. We ran the UK's most successful ZM server (7th ranked in the world), but still the game to me was pretty boring, fun for a round or two, but I was playing NS at the time as well.

    Judging from my Zombie Mod experiences a game as simple as Infested in it's current state is exactly the kind of game truly casual players will enjoy as there is zero investment required.

    Games:Subnautica Fan Game Mods: GorgeCraft & CTF & Proving Grounds Website: andysoulrider.uk
    Twitter: @AndySoulRider Twitch: Twitch.tv/SoulRider YouTube: Youtube.com/user/IamSoulRider/videos

    Capitalisation is the difference between helping your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse.
    Knowledge is gained through listening, Understanding is gained through discussion.
  • KeatsKeats United States Join Date: 2014-11-04 Member: 199413Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 154 Advanced user
    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    a game as simple as Infested in it's current state is exactly the kind of game truly casual players will enjoy as there is zero investment required.

    no investment but lots of infestment
    PM sent.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,727 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    HarmoniusZ wrote: »
    The marine side gameplay is just tedious after few hours - the best you can do to have fun is "get infested" asap. Yes, let's wait with improving the gameplay until there's "enough" players to say "there's no reason to improve because nobody plays it anymore".

    I have been playing Infested since it wasn't even really a mod yet before B311. I have been playing it afterwords more than I play NS2. I still has not become stale.

    The large games of 24 players are not as exciting as they once were, but I have found several ways to have a lot of fun. For example, I followed @SantaClaws around for hours the other night. He asked me to stop repeatedly. He would sometimes kill me just so I would stop. That was funny every time. He would sometimes run away from me avoiding nearly every objective, hoping he could convince some other poor marine to kill me instead. This was a barrel of laughs. I was hoping that he would partner with me so we could be stronger together. Why did I choose SantaClaws? Because he was the most vocal on the server.

    @TodPunk has been running around with what he calls the "Tod Squad." This large group of marines has been extremely successful, or they went down hard as infested. Either way it is a lot of fun. Last night I tried to emulate the Tod Squad with my own Squad. I ended up being the most obnoxious person on the server constantly spamming the microphone to micromanage my squads movements. It was a lot of fun for me and my squad, but maybe not so much for the rest of the server listening to me.

    I sometimes am that one asshole who finds a nice spot to camp all game. I try to challenge myself by getting into ever harder parkour spots.

    My point is there is a lot of dynamic gameplay going on. The mod itself is only so much fun, but the dynamic social elements that you could never code for are what makes this game great.

    Last night I played over an hour with just 3 people. I didn't think it was possible to have fun with that few. The dynamic social elements made it so. In a 3 person game, there is almost no point trying to clean the air. The game won't last that long. It came down to a 1v2 and we didn't know who the infected was, so the marines would kill the first person they saw. Often times with the infested right around the corner. This was so funny every time. We all were laughing so hard. It also was often a 2v1 where the only marine was desperately trying to survive. You would think the marine would be at a greater disadvantage, but as I saw it I had the advantage as the lone marine.

    We even had this idea that if there are 3 marines, if 2 were to kill themselves before the infested was made, then marines would win. So 2 of us killed ourselves. As logical as it sounded, it didn't work that way. If 2 marines kill themselves, only one marine was left to be made the infested. Infested win. We laughed so hard.

    In a 5 person game I had last night I talked the whole team into lining up against a wall in marine start. We all fired flames at each other in mass suicide. We did this twice. The first game the marines won because the infested was in the middle. The second game the infested won by being the last alive with 2 hp somehow. We all laughed so hard.

    To reiterate my point, the game objectives are not where the fun of this game mode is. It is the dynamic social elements.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • HarmoniusZHarmoniusZ Poland Join Date: 2013-11-06 Member: 189038Members Posts: 41 Fully active user
    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    @BeigeAlert is the main developer of this mod. He would have to answer on this, but I believe this is intended to be a simple fun mod which won't undergo too much development. It's meant as a minor distraction more than a new game mode for the playerbase to concentrate on, as far as I am aware.
    I hope they will change their mind then. Because this mod could be made dynamic and engaging for more than few evenings even by adaptation of mechanics already existing in NS2. They f... at NS2 start with skill separation and this could help to rebuild the playerbase. Just look at the current ratio of players at "rookie only" servers to the rest... it's still the old mistakes slaughtering the playerbase.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Keats wrote: »
    Soul_Rider wrote: »
    a game as simple as Infested in it's current state is exactly the kind of game truly casual players will enjoy as there is zero investment required.

    no investment but lots of infestment

    nope.avi
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,825 admin
    This isn't supposed to be a super-complicated game mode. Most of the suggestions I've seen would complicate things immensely, or are focused on trying to make it more "balanced", which really isn't the main focus either (not that it really makes any sense anyways to attempt to "balance" a game mode where part of the game involves switching teams mid-round.)

    My biggest gripes with the game mode at the moment are A) Infesting is too "easy". By this I mean... on a map like Tram, it's as easy as hiding around the corner. Even if a player is diligent and checking their corners, they can STILL get infested because it is as simple as clicking, and (segue into my 'B' point...) B) the flamethrower feels very clunky. Maybe the polling rate needs to be increased, but right now it feels like you can have the flamethrower ON somebody the whole time, and there's like a 50/50 shot of just not killing them in time for whatever reason, despite your crosshair being on them at all times.
    NordicVetinariSantaClawscoolitic
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,727 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    ...they can STILL get infested because it is as simple as clicking...
    It does seem that easy for me, but I have heard quite a few players say they struggle. We should figure out why these players struggle and others don't. It could be just internet and fps differences resulting in interp bullcrap.
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    ...Maybe the polling rate needs to be increased...
    This has needed to be done for a LONG time in NS2, not just infested. I am just one of many who have been asking for this. We are legion.
    There-Are-Dozens-of-Us-Tobias-Funke-Arrested-Development.gif
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Vetinaricoolitic
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,825 admin
    Yea I never really liked the way you target as an infested, but it's what we had to settle for with the limited time we had. :( Ideally what I'd like it to be is a keybind (eg right mouse button) appears on the back of a nearby human, and you press and hold that button, it "charges up" over a very short amount of time say... 1 second? (Maybe less...), then tentacles shoot out of you (also cut for time), and pull the other player towards you (almost like roadhog's hook, if you've played Overwatch... but obviously over MUCH less distance.)

    Also, the tentative long-term plan of this is to see how popular it is remaining (looking good so far!), and if it's popular enough, consider adding it into the main game as an alternate game mode. Useful for seeding servers.
    Vetinari
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    Nordic wrote: »
    It does seem that easy for me, but I have heard quite a few players say they struggle. We should figure out why these players struggle and others don't.

    Because when I click on a marine it doesn't always infest them. The hit registration zone (if it could be called that) is not very obvious and/or is being implemented in a poor manner.
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,727 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    coolitic wrote: »
    Because when I click on a marine it doesn't always infest them. The hit registration zone (if it could be called that) is not very obvious and/or is being implemented in a poor manner.
    That is exactly it. I don't have that problem. When I click, it just works every time. That is my question. Why do I intuitively not have problems with it, but others do? I know it is not because I am more skilled.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
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