Removal of D3D9 Support?

v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
Looking on the Subnautica Developement roadmap I found something unsettling, under the unknown tab they are going to be removing D3D9 Support but the thing is without D3D9 I cannot play the game due to my Graphics card being dated, it is an AMD Radeon HD 5670 and it is due to D3D9 I can even play Subnautica in the first place! And NO I cannot get a new graphics card because they are expensive, so unless a game patch comes out for my type of graphics card that enables me to play this game then I have wasted my money, so I think removal of D3D9 Support would be a bad idea as it could potentially alienate some more of their customers with very low end PC's and old-ish Graphics cards and annoy a lot of people
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Comments

  • RequiemfangRequiemfang Join Date: 2015-02-22 Member: 201492Members
    I griped about this for a while, I used to have a 6670 installed on my rig but I have since upgraded. A lot of graphic cards, particularly nvidia cards went down in price with the release of the 1000 series of cards. Heck I got a hell of a deal with my 1060 off of Amazon. Eventually they're going to remove Direct X 9 support and people who have cards for that will be left out but that's progress. A lot of us who had cards that support it got our panties in a twist because of it but there's nothing that can really be done or said to dissuade the developers from that path. I would suggest saving up for a new card whether it be AMD or Nvidia.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited September 2016
    That card has DX11 support...

    DX10 has support down to the HD4000 series, but you are correct... Yours is a low end card in any case, even when it was brand new...
  • bwc153bwc153 Shawnee, KS, US Join Date: 2016-02-29 Member: 213659Members
    As Requiem said, I'd suggest getting a new card. DirectX 9 is 12 years old, and is 3 major DirectX versions out of date, and it's difficult for a developer to try and troubleshoot for 4 versions of DirectX.

    Not sure what your budget is, but you can easily get a significantly better GPU for $100-$200 from Nvidia, due to the price decline.
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    edited September 2016
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    That card has DX11 support...

    DX10 has support down to the HD4000 series, but you are correct... Yours is a low end card in any case, even when it was brand new...

    I tried running it in both D3D10 and D3D11 on D3D10 it crashed after 20 minutes and on D3D11 it crashed within 5 minutes so i have no idea where to go with this but the reason is simple my Graphics card runs at 512mb
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    bwc153 wrote: »
    As Requiem said, I'd suggest getting a new card. DirectX 9 is 12 years old, and is 3 major DirectX versions out of date, and it's difficult for a developer to try and troubleshoot for 4 versions of DirectX.

    Not sure what your budget is, but you can easily get a significantly better GPU for $100-$200 from Nvidia, due to the price decline.

    People don't seem to get what I'm saying, I cannot afford a new GPU no matter how much I save up. I have a flat to run and bills to pay, now I paid £16.99 for the game and I do not like the fact that once they remove D3D9 support I won't be able to play this game therefore WASTING my money, I am not one with endless pots of money that most of the people that argue against my issue seem to have
  • bwc153bwc153 Shawnee, KS, US Join Date: 2016-02-29 Member: 213659Members
    edited September 2016
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    That card has DX11 support...

    DX10 has support down to the HD4000 series, but you are correct... Yours is a low end card in any case, even when it was brand new...

    I tried running it in both D3D10 and D3D11 on D3D10 it crashed after 20 minutes and on D3D11 it crashed within 5 minutes so i have no idea where to go with this but the reason is simple my Graphics card runs at 512mb

    Report the crashing to the developers.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited September 2016
    What are the rest of your specifications btw, I mean you might be borderline below or just at the minimum specs. And this is still a game in prerelease status, so going in with minimum recommended specs, you're bound to run into a lot more trouble at this moment than more powerful rigs


    The HD5670 512Mb barely passes the 3Dmark score at only ~977 points vs the required 950. So it is indeed the bare minimum if even that, making it even more dependent on the rest of your rig... Heck even my much higher end gaming orientated HD5870 1Gb (3Dmark score: 5138) will stutter from time to time (mostly loading in assets not FPS stutter, due to only 1Gb VRAM). But I've also got a beastly rig, overclocked 2500k @4.7Ghz with 16Gb DDR3-1600... I can only imagine what a low end 5600series with just 512Mb can handle... sidenote: I did manage to get it to run flawlessly with a HD4850 512Mb just a tiny bit more stutter than my HD5870 and not a lot less FPS either... But that one is also higher end than yours @3587 3Dmark score)


    But all that aside, it should handle DX10/11. If it is crashing, that is food for the programmers and those crash reports will help them...


    Mind you this isn't a diss at your issue or rig, but it might be you're asking too much from your hardware with an unstable prerelease like Subnautica in it's current state. Where even the current gen high end rigs run into trouble from time to time!
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    edited September 2016
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    What are the rest of your specifications btw, I mean you might be borderline below or just at the minimum specs. And this is still a game in prerelease status, so going in with minimum recommended specs, you're bound to run into a lot more trouble at this moment than more powerful rigs


    The HD5670 512Mb barely passes the 3Dmark score at only ~977 points vs the required 950. So it is indeed the bare minimum if even that, making it even more dependent on the rest of your rig... Heck even my much higher end gaming orientated HD5870 1Gb (3Dmark score: 5138) will stutter from time to time (mostly loading in assets not FPS stutter, due to only 1Gb VRAM). But I've also got a beastly rig, overclocked 2500k @4.7Ghz with 16Gb DDR3-1600... I can only imagine what a low end 5600series with just 512Mb can handle... sidenote: I did manage to get it to run flawlessly with a HD4850 512Mb just a tiny bit more stutter than my HD5870 and not a lot less FPS either... But that one is also higher end than yours @3587 3Dmark score)


    But all that aside, it should handle DX10/11. If it is crashing, that is food for the programmers and those crash reports will help them...


    Mind you this isn't a diss at your issue or rig, but it might be you're asking too much from your hardware with an unstable prerelease like Subnautica in it's current state. Where even the current gen high end rigs run into trouble from time to time!

    My Specs are as follows:-

    Processor:- Intel Celeron dual core processor each at 270gHz per core
    RAM:- 6gB DDR3 RAM
    Graphics processor:- AMD Radeon HD 5670

    I ran a test using D3D9, D3D10 and D3D11 and the reason why I am annoyed at the fact that D3D9 Support will be dropped is because Subnautica seems to work just fine on my rig albeit at the lowest graphics quality with very little chugging when at D3D9 with no crashing, then on D3D10 it crashes after 18 minutes and finally on D3D11 it crashes after 5 minutes; this is my point, if it ain't broke don't fix it but since it is their game it is their choice regardless of how much I paid for the game right?
  • Victor32Victor32 Join Date: 2016-04-01 Member: 215181Members
    Just ask for a refund. Early access games can change the required specs to higher at any moment, it says so clearly on the store page, and your rig already is pretty much on the edge of the minimum requirements. In the future, perhaps you shouldn't really buy games you can't quite afford. It may sound rude of me to say so, but I've been poor myself, having to juggle bills and rent and all that jazz, and buying games was never on my shopping list during that time.
  • bwc153bwc153 Shawnee, KS, US Join Date: 2016-02-29 Member: 213659Members
    edited September 2016
    My Specs are as follows:-

    Processor:- Intel Celeron dual core processor each at 270gHz per core
    RAM:- 6gB DDR3 RAM
    Graphics processor:- AMD Radeon HD 5670
    Have a model for the Intel Celeron? May have mistyped, but I don't think there's a 270 Gigahertz cpu on the market. :P
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    Victor32 wrote: »
    Just ask for a refund. Early access games can change the required specs to higher at any moment, it says so clearly on the store page, and your rig already is pretty much on the edge of the minimum requirements. In the future, perhaps you shouldn't really buy games you can't quite afford. It may sound rude of me to say so, but I've been poor myself, having to juggle bills and rent and all that jazz, and buying games was never on my shopping list during that time.

    I wouldn't even consider asking for a refund I like Subnautica. It isn't the money but the principle I guess I will have to cough up for a 1gb graphics card
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    edited September 2016
    bwc153 wrote: »
    My Specs are as follows:-

    Processor:- Intel Celeron dual core processor each at 270gHz per core
    RAM:- 6gB DDR3 RAM
    Graphics processor:- AMD Radeon HD 5670
    Have a model for the Intel Celeron? May have mistyped, but I don't think there's a 270 Gigahertz cpu on the market. :P

    heh i may have mistyped i meant 2.70 GhZ
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited September 2016
    It's no shame at all if you can't afford stuff, money doesn't flow for everyone! However with that comes thinking about what you can and cannot afford :)

    The biggest issue I see here is that you're really on the border of the minimum requirements and the game is as I mentioned a prerelease. Which do require some bruteforcing and can cause random issues on lower end of the spectrum of machines due to low CPU/GPU power or not enough memory, having to cache more to and from the HDD/MEM. Your crash issues on supported DX versions seem to indicate this...

    About the removal of DX9, it isn't as simple as "we don't like it or don't want to support it". It is quite similar to the 32bits -> 64bits decision, which is also an issue these days. It gives developers a lot more options to work with and also a lot less overhead to support all obsolete architectures.


    I've had to replace a few very capable video cards as well in the past due to the requirements of newer shadermodels, so it kinda comes with PC gaming when using over 5-6 year old hardware at some point if you want to play the latest stuff.


    I'd go ahead and ask for a refund, you are entitled to it in any case if you can no longer run it (even though it is technically supported :( ). And maybe later, when you're not so strapped for cash and perhaps upgraded come back for a more stable and complete Subnautica experience. I mean the game ain't going anywhere, it's only going to get bigger, better and more stable ;)
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    All i gotta do is wait for a couple of months then i can probably get a GPU that can support this but i don't need people being rude to me saying things like "Get a new GPU" or "Buy a new Computer" etc I get enough of that
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Well that's not actually being rude by saying that as they are kinda right about it, it's just the way they say it I guess...

    Now git out of here and get a new rig <- That would be a rude way, but nonetheless true ;) subnautica is a demanding game from 2016 and you're on 2009-2010 budget hardware
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Well that's not actually being rude by saying that as they are kinda right about it, it's just the way they say it I guess...

    Now git out of here and get a new rig <- That would be a rude way, but nonetheless true ;) subnautica is a demanding game from 2016 and you're on 2009-2010 budget hardware

    heh, that's kinda funny so i guess i have to be patient
  • bwc153bwc153 Shawnee, KS, US Join Date: 2016-02-29 Member: 213659Members
    Subnautica sometimes makes my Computer stutter and freeze, particularly in the Mushroom Forest biome, and I have an FX 8350 8 core OCed to 4.4ghz, a 1060, and 8GB of RAM.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    bwc153 wrote: »
    Subnautica sometimes makes my Computer stutter and freeze, particularly in the Mushroom Forest biome, and I have an FX 8350 8 core OCed to 4.4ghz, a 1060, and 8GB of RAM.

    Those are magic mushrooms, appearing out of nowhere sometimes :tongue:
  • DelmarKaneDelmarKane US Join Date: 2016-08-31 Member: 221945Members
    I have an i7-5820K, 32GB RAM (Quad channel, not dual), a 980Ti, the game installed on an SSD, and I play it in VR. Subnautica still stutters fairly often. When playing it for extended periods, I I can tell it needs a restart. Don't feel like the devs are doing this to exclude you personally. I think it is a good decision, so that they can make use of the higher end hardware (relatively speaking) without worrying about what it will do to the older cards.

    To be honest, I would prefer if they optimized the game to use DX12, but that would be a bit much I think. :)
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    sigh I can aggree to some of what you said but what is stopping them from supporting low-end PC's? tonnes of recent titles have the option to run at a reduced rate so why not Subnautica?
  • WheeljackWheeljack Chilling in the Grand Reef Join Date: 2016-03-17 Member: 214338Members
    This is a smaller team and therefore they don't have the money to support endless hardware configurations. It really does suck for those of us that can't afford to stay current, but that is the risk we take with gaming on older computers. Companies with the money to spend on their titles can support a wide range of specs, but not even all of them do.
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    edited September 2016
    I've said it before and will say it again for the last time... A small minority of those who played subnautica have low end computers like myself and cannot afford to upgrade their PC and when you have paid nearly £17 for a game that plays just fine on D3D9 albeit with low graphics quality and you enjoy it despite this fact then you are gonna be peeved when you read under the unknown tab "End D3D9 support" That is like a big middle finger to the people who buy the game and run it on D3D9 just to be able to play it, but it would appear most people don't give a damn and just assume that throwing money at the problem, which is a small commodity some do not have to waste, will solve it. I am sick of hearing "Upgrade your GPU" etc. There should be some form of middle ground that can be met, and before you say "get a refund" I can't due to steams terms of service which is why I think it is unfair to exclude those with low end PC's end of discussion!

    Further posts and replies will be ignored from here on in, have a nice day!

    regards V497_vesper
  • Victor32Victor32 Join Date: 2016-04-01 Member: 215181Members
    Dude, chill... out of all the replies you got for your topic, only two suggested upgrade and NONE of them was rude. The rest of us pointed out that the game is in early access and there are no guarantees that minimal requirements won't go up.

    I understand that you'd like to keep being able to play the game, but it's not our fault that you may lose that possibility and it feels like you're taking it out on us.

    The developers make the decisions and - as you were also told here - they are a small studio with limited resources (just like you have a limited budget, btw, so you should be more understanding) and so they may have to give up d3d9 support in order to be able to provide a more complete experience at the intended quality of dx10/11. It's really no one's fault, it's just how the world is and no one is doing that to spite you and others who can not afford the latest and greatest in computer parts.
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    edited September 2016
    Right okay I see your point and I know I said that all other replies to this topic will be ignored but I have to clarify that I am not taking it out on anybody, not intentionally; I am just saying that the removal of D3D9 support will be unfair to those who have paid for the game that use D3D9 to play it and will be alienated from the game they may or may not love but tell me one thing...

    If I do actually get to upgrade my GPU will that allow me to pay the game better with these specifications?

    Processor:- Intel Celeron dual core processor each at 2.70gHz per core
    RAM:- 6gB DDR3 RAM

    If so, then I will have no problem doing what I must to play Subnautica again,
    I guess that's the price of progress so with that in mind I think it'll be better to lock this thread or delete it even though I dissagree with the decision and sorry if I came off rude but my issue still remains valid, some people that run subnautica in D3D9 mode will feel for lack of a better term "conned" out of their money now let's end this thread and FYI, I don't care about the amout of disagree's I get on this post as I am very peeved off about this but que serra serra.
  • LonnehartLonnehart Guam Join Date: 2016-06-20 Member: 218816Members
    edited September 2016
    Just so you know, this is the card I'm running at the moment...

    https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GDDR3-2GB-Graphics-GV-R724OC-2GI-REV2-0/dp/B00JRSPXMQ

    I plan on upgrading to something better... or WAS before I found out about how No Man's Sky bombed... Or at least found it I could run the game on my machine at the very lowest settings thanks to a friend of mine (basically according to him my CPU is backing up the GPU and it's the reason I can even play the game as smooth as I do).

    As for my full system specs...

    CPU: AMD FX 8350 4 GHZ
    GPU: Gigabyte Radeon R7 240 2GB OC Edition
    System Memory: 8GB RAM
    System Board: Asus M5A 78-M USB3
    OS: Dual Boot Windows 8.1/10
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited September 2016
    Just for the record... This game is in pre-release status (Early Access), so it isn't yet released as an official "Gold" version on Steam.

    Now correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't Steam policy clearly state, you can ask for a refund at any given time before it is released officially and you can still get a refund 14 days after it does release? And something about amount not having played more than two hours of the game or something? <- after release, I assume...

    So for a pre-release of a game you cannot be conned out of your money, as you are basically paying for early access to an incomplete product and are given the ability to playtest the game to give feedback/bugreports to the devs as the game develops
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    Just for the record... THis game is in pre-release status, so it isn't yet released as an official "Gold" version on Steam.

    Now correct me if I'm wrong here but doesn't Steam policy clearly state, that you can ask for a refund at any given time before it is released officially and you can still get a refund 14 days after it does release?

    From what I read, if you have played for over a certain amount of hours you cannot get a refund
  • dealwithitdogdealwithitdog Texas Join Date: 2016-06-09 Member: 218343Members
    This is just the chance you take with an early access game. Requirements will change.
  • v497_vesperv497_vesper Join Date: 2016-08-21 Member: 221558Members
    edited September 2016
    I think we have established this already and I have accepted these terms so that means I am considering getting a new GPU when I can,
  • LonnehartLonnehart Guam Join Date: 2016-06-20 Member: 218816Members
    This is just the chance you take with an early access game. Requirements will change.

    I take it that there's the possibility that the game would require at ABSOLUTE minimum a graphics card like the GTX 1080? O_O
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