Sensory First

Panzergeist · January 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Getting sensor chambers first</div> Does anyone else not hate getting sensor chambers first? Today I played a game in ns_hera where everyone else absolutely refused to be a gorge, so I decided to gorge for once in my life. After building a few resource extractors, I proceeded to build sensor chambers. Several of my teammates immediately declared that we were doomed. Several of the enemies did the same soon after. Well, I managed to get the other 2 hives up, and we won the game by a landslide. They never came close to destroying a hive, and only destroyed 1 or 2 resource extractors. That didn't stop people from calling me names for the entire next game, nor did it bring anyone to apoligize, or admit that they were wrong about us being doomed. In fact, my 4-5 score "proved" that sensory sucked, even though I was a gorge 2/3 of the game, and being a moderately skilled player doesn't preclude me from being a good strategist. My "faggot-**** cloak whoring" didn't stop them from asking me to be a gorge next game, nor did it stop me from building both hives again in that next game, which we also won.

Now, does anyone else actually like sensor? I saw a lot of alien teams win with sensory back in 1.0 and 1.1, before people realized that it took patience, craftiness, and a willingess to use guerilla tactics rather than brute force. In fact, It is my belief that by getting cloak early on, a good alien team can essentially blockade the marine base, killing anyone who exits. I personally used cloak to great effect that game, saving my **** as a gorge by letting marines pass me by, if not scoring m4d l33t s3lf1sh k1llZ0rz. I think sensory is way underated. Anyone else agree? Or am I indeed a "n00b faggot" who deserves to be 0wned by a mass of predictable defense-movement-sensory l33t Khaara?

Firewater · January 2003

Sensory first usually means you are doomed if the marine commander knows what he is doing. If he techs weapons and armor and you have no carapace to counter, you should be dead. You must have played a REALLY sorry marine team.

The reason most people got sensories in 1.0 and 1.1 is because they didnt know any better. Everyone was a newb then and people were experimenting with different things.

Jeb3diah · January 2003

Why not ask everyone which chamber you should put down first? Why be selfish and put down a sensory when no other teammate wants it?

XHydralisk · January 2003

but how often do you have a good marine team on pub games?

sensory is a valid first chamber. I love it.

Error404 · January 2003

I think someone mentioned this before, that sensory tends to work better with smaller teams, on large servers, sensory first doesn't work too well.

SoulSkorpion · January 2003

/me cries

You're the third person this WEEK to start a topic on this.

For God's sake, people, USE THE SEARCH FEATURE!

Crisqo · January 2003

ahh another ones of these eh? Go to the "Fellow Aliens" thread where it proves that sensory chamber is a valid, it becomes a flame war at the end though because the so called "1337" defense first people had to come up with weird hypothetical situations to prove their points...which is bad because thats what we call
"theorycraft" bah go check it out for yourself it's all there.

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=18012' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=21&t=18012</a>

Alpha_1 · January 2003

It all depends on the skill of the team you face. If the marines are good players sensory first can spell doom for the aliens. At best it can mean a draw. I'd say bide your time til 1.1 where you should be able to choose your own first upgrade and not limit everyone on the team to your tactics. Diversity is good but currently it is better to ask the rest of the team what they would like to be placed first.

CrazedMonkOnaMission · January 2003

Personally, I don't have anything against sensory first directly. It is the lack of defence/or movement, when marines have taken hive 3. I'm pretty sure at this stage you will need to attack structures, and I am not sure how cloaking adds to your ability to do that. As for waiting around the map for marines to run by and kill em, a phase system should be up by now. But is it really time to play on the defensive?

Or maybe I need to learn an offensive way of using cloaking? I just don't see how personally, since you need to wait for marines to make a move, then react.

While with cloaking first, you might have a better chance of stopping hmg rushes, as well as possibly preventing marines from taking the other 2 hives.

Vash · January 2003

I would have been one of the "Were all doomed" people. Usually getting anything other than Def chambers first means that. Without them, you can't heal the hive up to full (it starts at 50% health), you can't back up your turrets with a little extra healing power, and if you actually survive long enough to get the second hive, you have to choose between Def or Movement, considering you have Fades now, that's a really hard choice. Carapace (or Regen for some) or Adrenaline. Fades are very vulnerable without either of these. Sensory really just screws you over o_o It's only use is having scent of fear to find that one lame jetpacker hiding in the vents somewhere after you annihilate their base.

Shockeh · January 2003

Vash - Won't the hive heal itself....?

Incidentally...

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=18012&st=105' target='_blank'>The Fellow Aliens Thread</a>

appledonkey · January 2003

I think def should go up first... but mainly not for the same reasons as you all. I think d chambers shouldnt go up until the gesting of the 2nd hive. 2 d chambers = 28 res's and if you were like most people and put a 3rd down (which prevents just a miniscule amount more dmg) then thats ..... *counts in head* 42!?, plus whenever you have d chambs you know your skuls wont max out, but get there carapace goin, which is fine and all but wouldnt we all rather be hurrying up and getting fade? Now since everyones snatching res's the gorge will only get 3 per tick instead of 3 per tick + whatever goes in the pool. This makes getting 2nd hive MUCH slower. Plus skul lives are expendable... they dont take res's. Within a small amount of time you have enough to plop down a hive and d chambs, go off to get more res's, then after 2nd hive goes up you deal with the move, and everyone will have enough for some nice gesting because with the res's they didnt waste with their expendable skulk lives you got more res towers.

-=K=-

Shockeh · January 2003

If you wanna talk about that, as far as I'm concerned it's...

Rez/Def/Rez/Rez/Rez/Hive. With maybe a Def again thrown in b4 hive if the skulks aren't RAMPANTLY evolving cara, and I have enough rez left over.

LaserApa · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
I'm pretty sure at this stage you will need to attack structures, and I am not sure how cloaking adds to your ability to do that.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

How does lack of movment prevent you from attacking structures? Blink in, slash a turret, run or blink out. Usually you can do this without losing even half your life (no pun intended). Heal up, repeat untill you blindside the TF.

I dont think the idea here is not to change the order to SC/DC/MC...

Just give a guy a brake when he decides not to build acording to your precious needs. Differance is Good.

Oh well. Lets wait and see what the clever chaps are up to with 1.1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Edcrab · January 2003

Hmm, perhaps I should make a script in WorldLine or something to automatically reply to these threads simply for an immature post-count increase...

IF(ThreadRepeat=1),RUN(SetReply.ini),WITH(Program Files/Internet Explorer/IE.exe)... ...

="Well, this has been discussed an awful lot by this point, and although I usually insist on def first, I can go with any order providing the gorge asks first."

captmorgan · January 2003

While I admit I prefer DC's first, I can tolerate SC's, as long as the gorge understands starting with those means you have to get 3, not 1 or 2, but 3 in a row. You need 2 DC's to get any real value out of them, and 3 MC's or SC's to get its real effect also.

I start calling my gorge names when he only gets me 1 SC, then stops because everyone complains. That right there is why I dont like SC's first, as it takes 30 res to get a worthwhile addition, whereas making MC's or DC's first, you can get by early with 2. (although 3 is really best for silence or celerity for skulks) 3 SC's=30, 2 DC's or MC's=28. Every res counts in the first 6 minutes, I hate to spend a 1 I don't have to.

Panzergeist · January 2003

Yeah. Won another game with sensory first last night. It was really cool, because it was one of those evenly matched games where both teams managed to get a good amount of resources and advanced tech. At first people were mad at the guy who built the sensory, but this time no one kept insulting him for the rest of the game.

Vash · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Jan 15 2003, 05:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Vash - Won't the hive heal itself....?

Incidentally...

<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=18012&st=105' target='_blank'>The Fellow Aliens Thread</a></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
True...the hive will heal itself, but EXTREMELY slowly. Throwing up 3 defense chambers under it really speeds things up, as well as heal spraying the hive while you wait for res.

rebo · January 2003

The best upgrade route for aliens especcially on small maps/large teams is DC DC RP DC RP (RP - optional) HIVE. SC or tbh even MC is not a simply viable option versus any competant marine force.

spai_duhz · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LaserApa @ Jan 15 2003, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Oh well. Lets wait and see what the clever chaps are up to with 1.1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Hey. Thats a cute avatar you have there. is it a cat or something?

well, in malay, "Apa" would directly translate to "what" in english.

anyway regarding this, there is no right or wrong answer. i only wish that the so-called "elitists" just relax a little, have fun effing with the diverseness of alien traits.

Shockeh · January 2003

Maybe I'm just not bothered, because I'm so addicted to health spray. It's far superior to spit anyway, and if you're spamming it in the middle of a skulk rush, you're hurting them AND healing the skulks. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Question then : If I spray a hive before it's finished building, am I increasing it's health (not finishing the building faster - I know it doesn't do that) or do I have to wait until it's finished before I can heal it?

SoulSkorpion · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'>
#include "forums.h"

threadtype thread;
bool argument;
int points;
bool listening;
char *result;

if(argument && points && !listening)
thread.type = POINTLESS;
while(thread.type == POINTLESS)
{
Rebut(stupid_posts);
result = MakePost(CLEVER);
if(strcmp(result, "nobody listening to valid points")
BangHeadOn(BRICK_WALL);
};
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

...nobody's going to understand that <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'>

MeltedSnowman · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoulSkorpion @ Jan 16 2003, 05:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>[code stuff]</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
HAHA!

Personally I love sensory first, but I'm not about to go gorge and build it unless the rest of the team agrees.

freeo · January 2003

defense chambers are better first because of the two roles they play: provide upgrades and healing. although the sensory chamber has two roles as well (upgrades and going crazy when a marine is near it), healing is still far better.

Archzai · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FireWater @ Jan 14 2003, 04:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sensory first usually means you are doomed if the marine commander knows what he is doing. If he techs weapons and armor and you have no carapace to counter, you should be dead. You must have played a REALLY sorry marine team.

The reason most people got sensories in 1.0 and 1.1 is because they didnt know any better. Everyone was a newb then and people were experimenting with different things.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
it doesnt always hafta be defense first

if u get cloaking.. u can sit on their base.... parasite etc...

or all skulks wait for an ambush....

Align · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (spai_duhz @ Jan 17 2003, 02:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LaserApa @ Jan 15 2003, 06:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Oh well. Lets wait and see what the clever chaps are up to with 1.1 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Hey. Thats a cute avatar you have there. is it a cat or something?

well, in malay, "Apa" would directly translate to "what" in english.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Its swedish. Apa means ape, or monkey. LaserMonkey.
And the avatar is a monkey shooting l?asers in all directions out of his eyes, while holding his paws/hands up, Im sure.
(b?st att f?rklara s? mycket som m?jligt.)

About topic, I like M>D>S, but the times I do play with Sensory first, those times I lost... Not to say I never lost the others, but ALL the games with sensory first(okay, not that many, 3 or so, but still. If the marine team is (as)good(as you), you are likely to loose...

heathenSlayer · January 2003

Your "sneakiness and stealth" are subjective abilities that will affect each enemy to varying degrees. I don't care, be sneaky all you want, maybe I'm more careful than you are sneaky, what will you do then? Carapace, however, gives solid objective results in the form of living longer. When faced with any marine, carapace provides uniform usefulness and is therefore the best upgrade.

Please come back when the next patch comes out and they nerf carapace for the sake of people like you. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'>

BlueGhost · January 2003

In the last major thread about this I was one of the people arguing that sensory first was a good idea because it allows diversity and tactical diversity is a good thing as it will suprise/off balance the marines.

I was wrong.

Basically carapice makes a <b>BIG</b> difference to your ability to take out held positions, and sensory makes none what so ever.
8 level 3 carapice skulks rushing a marine installation will have a reasonable chance of taking it out, 8 cloaking skulks will have an excellent chance of dieing horribly.

If the commander realises you have sensory (and really he should) then all he has to do is get marines into the two hive locations and build there. While poorly played marines can be beaten with the old 'ambush them all as they run accross the map' tactic, good coms will scan ahead, they will use phase gates and when the phase gates are up your sensory upgrade is useless.

If the marines are so poor they don't scan and don't use phase gates, well just all evolve gorge at the start and gorge rush them, its a much better way to deal out humilation.

The ONE exception to this is ns_nancy, you can hold the intire map by holding messhall and auxilery gen? (the one next to messhall with the sub tunnle outside un-named).
If you get every member of your team in those two locations at the start then sensory <b>MIGHT</b> work, however carapice will work just aswell because after the 3rd or 4th rush into the twin meat grinder the commander will start scanning them.

You can still hold the map if they take un-named (mother interface) hive.

BlueGhost

Error404 · January 2003

La la la la la la

MrBen · January 2003

If aliens ahve sens first, marines will struggle to leave spawn as long as aliens are remotely careful. In the time it takes them to save up for ha or hmg another hive is well on its way. Sensory is total ownage. You do not need a lot of health cause you have suprirse, you strike when they turn there back, you strike out of the blue marines take a second to figure out where that skulk came from and in that time he is dead.

Canadianmonk3y · January 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.Ben @ Jan 20 2003, 04:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If aliens ahve sens first, marines will struggle to leave spawn as long as aliens are remotely careful. In the time it takes them to save up for ha or hmg another hive is well on its way. Sensory is total ownage. You do not need a lot of health cause you have suprirse, you strike when they turn there back, you strike out of the blue marines take a second to figure out where that skulk came from and in that time he is dead.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Yet another senseless argument for sensory. It is 100% counterable, and not even as good as carapace even when the commander does not scanner sweep. I hear you, and if you dont get me in about a second or less, you turn into a lead rug.

Sensory First

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