Hive 2.0 feature requests

RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 571 Advanced user
- Commander specific elo
so that extremly low or extremely high elo coms dont unbalance the FPS teams

- Commander matchmaking
add sub-options to PLAY NOW that include commander matchmaking basically checking for games about to start that dont have a com and spawn you directly in the chair/hive.

- Commander tutorial
enough bad coms ruining games teach them the basics, emphasize how people are not AI units and the general tech choices

- Remove possibility to eject coms
enough stupid people getting good coms ejected by yelling loudly for something stupid. if people want a com ejected they will use the kick fonction and also use report fonction (see next point)

- Report fonction for smurfs, troll/stubborn and bad coms, toxic people
simply like in csgo you click on the name of the person you want to report from the scoreboard and that person receive a warning point, once a person received too many they are not able to join RANKED servers.
different infractions could have different values, for example smurf = 3, troll com = 2, toxic = 1 (warning point)

- Change the ranked server whitelisting policy to be much more stricter
things that should be mandatory: autoshuffle at the start of a game, not being able to switch team during the whole round (once it started) and if you arrive in an ongoing game, being forced to go on the team with which you joining it will cause less unbalance.

Now if you implement all this MAYBE just MAYBE we can have balanced games, if you want to go f2p this will help a lot structuring a bigger playerbase but it will help with the current one as well to get more accurate elo values. Because you can use all the faster learning algorithm you want, if the team are stacked the system will learn nothing, faster. that's all

Comments

  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 848 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    - Remove possibility to eject coms
    enough stupid people getting good coms ejected by yelling loudly for something stupid. if people want a com ejected they will use the kick fonction and also use report fonction (see next point)

    Kick requires a percentage of all player votes on the server. Vote eject only requires a percentage of the marine team... so no, this feature is legit. If the newbies get on the eject train, and a good com gets voted out... well, he most probably havent communicated with them in the first place

    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    Nordicsnb
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,082 Advanced user
    Most of this isn't really related to Hive though.

    But yea I think these are good points. As @.trixX. points out though, there is a point with the eject vote. It also wouldn't be very nice to kick rookie players because they attempted to command.. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have them ejected either, but that's the lesser of two evils.
    Now if you implement all this MAYBE just MAYBE we can have balanced games
    No you can't. Don't expect balanced games as long as you have so much skill disparity among players. You need skill segregation to improve balance, it's the only way.
    .trixX.Nordic
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 768 Advanced user
    - Remove possibility to eject coms
    enough stupid people getting good coms ejected by yelling loudly for something stupid. if people want a com ejected they will use the kick fonction and also use report fonction (see next point)


    - Change the ranked server whitelisting policy to be much more stricter
    things that should be mandatory: autoshuffle at the start of a game, not being able to switch team during the whole round (once it started) and if you arrive in an ongoing game, being forced to go on the team with which you joining it will cause less unbalance.

    Those would successfully kill the small playerbase that is left instantly.
  • NousWandererNousWanderer Join Date: 2010-05-07 Member: 71646Members Posts: 258 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    • Lifeform-specific and weapon-specific accuracy ratings. And overall averages per team.
    • Lifeform-specific time played. Weapon-specific time used. Time spent per-team. Overall time played in Hive. Number of rounds played.
    • Lifeform-specific K:D, marine-specific K:D, and overall K:D.
    • Lifeform-specific score per minute, marine-specific score per minute, and overall score per minute. And totals for each.
    • Lifeform-specific assists, marine-specific assists, and overall assists.
    • Special values for total hp healed (gorge), total armor welded (marine), total build time (gorge, marine), damage shielded (lerk), etc. Make this as granular as you want.
    • Alien ELO. Marine ELO. Marine comm ELO. Alien comm ELO. And then "True" ELO.
    • Alien win-loss rate. Marine win-loss rate. Marine comm win-loss rate. Alien comm win-loss rate.
    • Total player and structure damage for every lifeform and weapon. And then overall totals. And averages per round.
    • All achievements unlocked.
    • Match history.
    • Visualization of current skin preferences @ top of hive profile for flashy effect.
    • All official badges should be displayed somewhere (e.g., comm badge).
    • Create special borders/badges/rank icons for 1) high ELO achievements and 2) high level achievements.
    • Make it easy to load someone's new hive profile in-game.
    The_Welsh_WizardsnbHandschuh
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,718 Advanced user
    I am going to say this again. We all know hive 2.0 is being worked on. Do not get your expectations so high thinking that it will make every game balanced. Hive 2.0 will be better, a lot better, but by no means will it be perfect.

    Hive as is does work. I have written too many long posts showing this that I really do not feel like saying it again.
    Hive as is may work, but every single one of us knows it has problems.

    As of right now there are only 3 mostly confirmed features for hive 2.0.
    1) Adagrad. Adagrad will significantly speed up how fast hive gets accurate. A smurf for example could be given a 3k hive skill in just a handful of games. I have linked it many times, but if you still have not read about adagrad check it out here.
    2) Separate skill ratings for marines and aliens.
    3) No more rookies with different starting values of either 1000 or 0.

    More may be planned, but it is not confirmed. Just don't give yourself unreasonable expectations. Hive 2.0 will be better but do not expect perfection. Unbalanced games will still exist.
    - Commander specific elo

    - Commander matchmaking

    - Commander tutorial

    - Remove possibility to eject coms

    - Report fonction for smurfs, troll/stubborn and bad coms, toxic people

    - Change the ranked server whitelisting policy to be much more stricter

    Commander elo is extremely tough to do. For one, you never know who is going to comm nor if they will stay comm. For those two reasons alone a commander elo and commander matchmaking are extremly unlikely. I personally am not comfortable with how the game would have to change to allow a commander elo.

    I think everybody and their dog wants more tutorials. No brainer. It is also a lot of work, so who knows how soon or if it may even happen.

    I don't like the idea of kicking commanders over ejecting. That does not sound reasonable to me.

    A report function is iffy also. As the game is now this power is in the hands of server operators. They are the ones responsible for keeping trolls and toxic people in check. You could argue that UWE should take a more active approach to this, and I think you are, but that to me gets iffy. I am not saying it could be done, but I can't think of a good way to implement it. What would happen if a person is flagged? Who would be given the responsibility to handle those flagged players? Are you sure you want UWE to manage these players given all the controversy with moderation on this forums?

    I do think there should be a clear and strictly followed white list policy compared to this mess we have now. I also think a proper high level play system would be great. This may work out similarly to what you described if it happens, but I don't think it will be what you imagine. Forced shuffle is extremely unpopular in NS2. I explained this to you before. Seems you stubbornly disagree. Forced shuffle still won't create balanced games. PLEASE, no matter what, do not think that balanced teams will ever be perfect.

    As Santaclaws said, very little of this has to do with hive 2.0. I still thought it worth my time to explain why a lot of these requests are unlikely.
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    No you can't. Don't expect balanced games as long as you have so much skill disparity among players. You need skill segregation to improve balance, it's the only way.
    I quoted this because I can't agree twice.

    • Lifeform-specific and weapon-specific accuracy ratings. And overall averages per team.
    • Lifeform-specific time played. Weapon-specific time used. Time spent per-team. Overall time played in Hive. Number of rounds played.
    • Lifeform-specific K:D, marine-specific K:D, and overall K:D.
    • Lifeform-specific score per minute, marine-specific score per minute, and overall score per minute. And totals for each.
    • Lifeform-specific assists, marine-specific assists, and overall assists.
    • Special values for total hp healed (gorge), total armor welded (marine), total build time (gorge, marine), damage shielded (lerk), etc. Make this as granular as you want.
    • Alien win-loss rate. Marine win-loss rate. Marine comm win-loss rate. Alien comm win-loss rate.
    • Total player and structure damage for every lifeform and weapon. And then overall totals. And averages per round.
    • All achievements unlocked.
    • Match history.
    • Visualization of current skin preferences @ top of hive profile for flashy effect.
    • All official badges should be displayed somewhere (e.g., comm badge).
    • Create special borders/badges/rank icons for 1) high ELO achievements and 2) high level achievements.
    • Make it easy to load someone's new hive profile in-game.
    A lot of this sounds like stats to be collected and displayed on the hive profile page. I have asked for more stats so many times. It is just not going to happen. It is not even close to being a priority. I really do think most of this would be great though.

    I think it would all be great, except one thing.
    [*] Alien ELO. Marine ELO. Marine comm ELO. Alien comm ELO. And then "True" ELO.
    The skill value should always be hidden. The skill value should only be used for balance. People think it is something it is not, and treat it like a bank account number. IT MUST ALWAYS GO UP.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 768 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    • Lifeform-specific and weapon-specific accuracy ratings. And overall averages per team.
    • Lifeform-specific time played. Weapon-specific time used. Time spent per-team. Overall time played in Hive. Number of rounds played.
    • Lifeform-specific K:D, marine-specific K:D, and overall K:D.
    • Lifeform-specific score per minute, marine-specific score per minute, and overall score per minute. And totals for each.
    • Lifeform-specific assists, marine-specific assists, and overall assists.
    • Special values for total hp healed (gorge), total armor welded (marine), total build time (gorge, marine), damage shielded (lerk), etc. Make this as granular as you want.
    • Alien win-loss rate. Marine win-loss rate. Marine comm win-loss rate. Alien comm win-loss rate.
    • Total player and structure damage for every lifeform and weapon. And then overall totals. And averages per round.
    • All achievements unlocked.
    • Match history.
    • Visualization of current skin preferences @ top of hive profile for flashy effect.
    • All official badges should be displayed somewhere (e.g., comm badge).
    • Create special borders/badges/rank icons for 1) high ELO achievements and 2) high level achievements.
    • Make it easy to load someone's new hive profile in-game.
    A lot of this sounds like stats to be collected and displayed on the hive profile page. I have asked for more stats so many times. It is just not going to happen. It is not even close to being a priority. I really do think most of this would be great though.

    Would it be so difficult to implement?? I mean things like that should be somewhat standard for games because they are extremely helpful and extremely nive to have.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,718 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    I am told it is a matter of development time, and these kind of extra stats are just that. Nice to have but not necessary. It is not that they don't want to put them in, but that their time is better spent elsewhere.

    Maybe if we are lucky and the benevolent developers will surprise us. You never know.
    Post edited by Nordic on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 571 Advanced user
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    Most of this isn't really related to Hive though.

    But yea I think these are good points. As @.trixX. points out though, there is a point with the eject vote. It also wouldn't be very nice to kick rookie players because they attempted to command.. If it were up to me, I wouldn't have them ejected either, but that's the lesser of two evils.
    Now if you implement all this MAYBE just MAYBE we can have balanced games
    No you can't. Don't expect balanced games as long as you have so much skill disparity among players. You need skill segregation to improve balance, it's the only way.

    Yea its all very important to hive tho indirectly, these are things needed for elo to have a meaningful values because if the teams are stacked in any way shape or form the system will learn "people that stack are good" "people that quit the game early are good" and so on, no matter how much adagrad saucing you put on it, the faster Nordic and PDT understands this the better.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,718 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Please don't assume I don't understand that. I very much do recognize it as a major issue. Unlike you I also recognize that it does not have an easy solution. I have already described to you how forced shuffle and related measures are draconian, don't work, that I have actually tried to solve this issue in a similar way to what you have show in this thread. It may be an issue, but your solution is a non-solution. snip.
    Post edited by Foxy on
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
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