Update 299 Released! - Natural Selection 2

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Comments

  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members

    Onosplosion has been a problem since I got back here, so at least several months.

    I hadn't noticed more than 2 onoses at a time before 299. Now I regularly see 4-6 appearing together.

    It must have something to do with what servers you're on.. I've regularly seen more than 2 onos in games for a very long time.. Waay before 299. (Even before 290)

    I still don't think raising onos cost will help with anything.. If it does encourage people to lerk or fade instead then you'll end up with lerk and fade swarms.. Only they're a lot quicker to be replaced if you take them down..

    Honestly they should've left the pres alone... The way they tweaked it seems to have made everything worse.. Tunnels don't go up as quickly, lerks and fades are replaced quicker, people complaining about onos being too cheap, etc...

  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Members
    MoFo1 wrote: »

    Onosplosion has been a problem since I got back here, so at least several months.

    I hadn't noticed more than 2 onoses at a time before 299. Now I regularly see 4-6 appearing together.

    It must have something to do with what servers you're on.. I've regularly seen more than 2 onos in games for a very long time.. Waay before 299. (Even before 290)

    I still don't think raising onos cost will help with anything.. If it does encourage people to lerk or fade instead then you'll end up with lerk and fade swarms.. Only they're a lot quicker to be replaced if you take them down..

    Honestly they should've left the pres alone... The way they tweaked it seems to have made everything worse.. Tunnels don't go up as quickly, lerks and fades are replaced quicker, people complaining about onos being too cheap, etc...

    It was probably intended to get more lifeforms out, so losing a fade doesn't mean you are stuck at skulk till the game ends.

    That in itself I can understand. But making the HMG so pathetic and also the major onos buff is what has messed up the lifeform play.

    Anyway maybe there will be some tweaks next build.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    NS2 is designed and balanced around a soft timer at which points the aliens win. If aliens are allowed to get mass onos up or 3 hives, they are supposed to win. This is why contaminate was buffed. This is why mass onos or "onospolosion" is so strong. It is because they are supposed to end the game and not let it drag on. Beyond X minuets of gameplay, aliens will win unless marine stops it. Marines should have won before the mass onos got on the field. If they did not, they deserve to win with how the game was designed.

    You can disagree with this design, but it is what it is. I am not a fan of it myself.
  • VetinariVetinari Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver
    Nordic wrote: »
    NS2 is designed and balanced around a soft timer at which points the aliens win. If aliens are allowed to get mass onos up or 3 hives, they are supposed to win. This is why contaminate was buffed. This is why mass onos or "onospolosion" is so strong. It is because they are supposed to end the game and not let it drag on. Beyond X minuets of gameplay, aliens will win unless marine stops it. Marines should have won before the mass onos got on the field. If they did not, they deserve to win with how the game was designed.

    You can disagree with this design, but it is what it is. I am not a fan of it myself.

    Then let's change it!
  • TheriusTherius Join Date: 2009-03-06 Member: 66642Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    People disagreeing on simple gameplay facts and these people are trying to argue balance issues. Welcome to the UWE forums.
  • TinkiTinki Join Date: 2013-12-03 Member: 189715Members
    Nordic wrote: »
    NS2 is designed and balanced around a soft timer at which points the aliens win. If aliens are allowed to get mass onos up or 3 hives, they are supposed to win. This is why contaminate was buffed. This is why mass onos or "onospolosion" is so strong. It is because they are supposed to end the game and not let it drag on. Beyond X minuets of gameplay, aliens will win unless marine stops it. Marines should have won before the mass onos got on the field. If they did not, they deserve to win with how the game was designed.

    You can disagree with this design, but it is what it is. I am not a fan of it myself.

    Hmm no, speaking from 10 000+ rounds the game is built around map control/3 hive. Positioning mistakes is what makes you lose late game, not onos. "onosplosion" is a thing if you lost map control in the first place and mass onos is a thing if you didn't put yourself and your team in a position to kill the firsts onos. There is a reason why even with a lot of onos an alien team manage to win only with a rush, they are just exploiting bad lane control and are using the lack of map control behind the marine lines to their advantage.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    @Tinki, as far as I am concerned we said the same thing but you just expanded on it more than I did.
  • TinkiTinki Join Date: 2013-12-03 Member: 189715Members
    i'm saying that there is no "soft timer".
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @Tinki
    There pretty much is, considering the design around Tier 3 alien tech. (ala "make it as OP as possible")
    See the recent contamination changes, for instance.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    Tinki wrote: »
    i'm saying that there is no "soft timer".

    When contamination was buffed, it ended the game. There was no counter to contamination. This was recently nerfed to still be strong, but still have a counter. The counter exists.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited May 2016
    Aliens at max upgrades and biomass are designed to be stronger than marines at max upgrades/tech, since the game and lore has mainly been about trying to prevent the kharaa infestation from spreading before needing to resort to collateral damage (like nukes) So while leaving room for some comebacks is good to keep things interesting, the game should be pretty much over if the aliens succeed in taking the map.

    It's the core of NS1 and NS2's design and I hope it never changes.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    So, are fades gonna get acid rocket on 3 hives or
  • TinkiTinki Join Date: 2013-12-03 Member: 189715Members
    3 hive = map control. There is no time limit.
  • GhoulofGSG9GhoulofGSG9 Join Date: 2013-03-31 Member: 184566Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter, Pistachionauts
    edited May 2016
    Somehow our blog system decided to remove this update post :/
  • MaxAmusMaxAmus UK Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24779Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Somehow our blog system decided to remove this update post :/

    Even the System is out of control. PM- Sent
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    MaxAmus wrote: »
    Somehow our blog system decided to remove this update post :/

    Even the System is out of control. PM- Sent

    Heh... it's separate from the forums, it's a word-press system.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    I do agree max aliens should be stronger, its game over. They should never get that far.
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I do agree max aliens should be stronger, its game over. They should never get that far.
    Well it should not be over directly, but indeed the aliens should have a huge advantage now and game ending tools.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    MaxAmus wrote: »
    Somehow our blog system decided to remove this update post :/

    Even the System is out of control. PM- Sent

    Skynet is real.

    I agree that marines need a "the aliens control the map we're screwed" system. because, let's be honest here, when the marines have the map and the aliens are on 1 hive? They are doomed. always, except for the rare occasion they can sneak the main marine base and blow up all their tech.
    And even then, probably still screwed.
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