Splitting up armor, for armor level readability and greater customization

IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
edited February 2016 in Ideas and Suggestions
(P.S. Armor values are still tied to the Commander's Armor Level research.)

One of the older questions of how to improve the player experience is how do we visually represent armor levels.

Taking the time to splice up the marine armor would solve this problem, as well as introduce greater customization options as the game would need to use an attachment system to rig it to the playermodel underneath.
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Starting with a basic chestplate, a utility belt, and 30 armor points, armor level 0 is the basic security outfit for the TSF in recon missions to scout out and confirm Kharaa contamination. Level 1 armor features leg protection to give added protection against lower level alien threats such as the skulk. Level 2 adds a helmet to provide protection against flying and projectile based alien lifeforms such as the Lerk. Lastly, Level 3 armor provides additional protection against high level alien lifeforms such as the Fade and the Onos.

I know it's a simple idea and a hard task, as the models aren't currently set up to support this. The benefit of doing this is getting more options to acquire revenue from. Supporting but not limited to, under armor outfits, unique armor pieces, accessories, and camouflages.

It would be a visual change for sure, some might question why marines are being deployed in security garb instead of being fully armored up like they used to, but I think such a revamp is needed for Natural Selection 2's continued evolution and player retention.
Post edited by IeptBarakat on
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Comments

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,726 Advanced user
    edited February 2016
    Would this be pay2win, because it sounds like it would.

    Edit: I did skim most of it
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    Saffron_baker
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Would this be pay2win, because it sounds like it would.

    Did you even read? It's marine armor levels the commander researches, the armor pieces are just playing in a visual representation of said system which solves the player confusion over which armor level the marine team is currently on.
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 770 Advanced user
    I can't see Pay2Win here. As I understand it it is just about making the current armor level visible to the players. That would be very nice and a win for the overall atmosphere of the game. The DLC things would just be cosmetic.
    IeptBarakat
  • Saffron_bakerSaffron_baker Sweden Join Date: 2015-06-09 Member: 205352Members Posts: 492 Advanced user
    While i do aggre that there should be better armour customization but not any armour difrence. That would just make the good players egen better. One example on how that worked is star wars battlefront.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    While i do aggre that there should be better armour customization but not any armour difrence. That would just make the good players egen better. One example on how that worked is star wars battlefront.

    Of course there wouldn't be any armor difference, this is just a visual representation of the armor level the marine side is currently on.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands, Hoogezand Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 15,780 Advanced user
    edited February 2016
    "provide protection against air" You mean protection from gas for a non EXO marine?


    Also based on the skins, the armor plating is indeed integrated into the models, so in essence that would mean more individual material files for all the loose armor plates and the low armor marines themselves. Aside from the fact the models themselves have to be redesigned as well. A big task, but a cool one.

    However, what about using your idea. And instead of having to redo the skins and models. Have the magic programming gods fiddle with alien vision, based on the colors you're using in your armor plating separation example. Not as flashy, but could get the job done without the use of more memory usage and model work.


    Also about the helmet, I dunno. Marines are kinda dead set on keeping their helmets on when going into uncharted territory or even in frontline bases. Unlesssss....

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  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    edited February 2016
    Kouji_San wrote: »
    "provide protection against air" You mean protection from gas for a non EXO marine?

    Touché, guess I should've worded that differently.

    Kouji_San wrote: »
    However, what about using your idea. And instead of having to redo the skins and models. Have the magic programming gods fiddle with alien vision, based on the colors you're using in your armor plating separation example. Not as flashy, but could get the job done without the use of more memory usage and model work

    That's not a bad idea, certainly wouldn't be as aesthetically pleasing but it would be functional in cases where alien vision is activated. Only downside is missing out on more cosmetic options. :tongue:
  • Saffron_bakerSaffron_baker Sweden Join Date: 2015-06-09 Member: 205352Members Posts: 492 Advanced user
    What about have the option to just change armour and skin to the armour. I know that would need more skins. Like you would need another tundra skin for the normal marine armour model and every other armour would need to be avaible for the deluxe armour
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 763 Advanced user
    This makes too much sense.

    Marines get more armor, when they get more armor.

    If this were possible, it would also tie in beautifully with any future customization options. Having seperate Chest/Legs/Arms/Helmet would theoretically translate into being able to customize each independant of the other.

    The question is, is it possible.

    If not, I like the idea of AV revealing these levels. It's just something we've never really bothered with and has always been a guessing game for aliens.
  • Soul_RiderSoul_Rider Mod Bean Join Date: 2004-06-19 Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue Posts: 4,269 Advanced user
    The only problem with making it an AV only ability, is that turns up back towards aliens never turning off AV, and we've all seen UWE's previous attempts to discourage aliens from running AV 24/7...

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  • IxianIxian Denmark Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 182 Advanced user
    Armor level is directly visible to the alien commander, if he targets one of the marines. Aliens can also use a board like below to notice the difference - this is without any medpacks.

    A0: 2 bites + 1 parasite OR 3 bites
    A1: 3 Bites
    Timing: 1:15-1:30 if strait for an armor lab - some comms decide to go for mines or PG first, which delays this timing by 1 to 3 minutes.
    A2: 4 Bites
    Timing: Americans like to get it around the 4th minute (a good strat if the ping across the server is high, while europeans start getting weapon levels aiming for A2 around 7-9 minute mark.
    A3: 4 Bites
    Timing: Ultra late game, as it doesn't make a difference in an unmedded fight. Typically gotten after 3/2 upgrades, catpacks and JP. If you see it near the 6-8 minute mark, expect an EXO rush.

    If you are an onos A3 needs an additional gore, compared to A2, but memory doesnt serve me well as to how many gores exactly. The timings are ultra competitive, and in a public game you will most likely see them even later, than these timings.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Ixian wrote: »
    The timings are ultra competitive, and in a public game you will most likely see them even later, than these timings.

    At the moment, both weapon and armor levels are essentially hidden mechanics that don't effectively present themselves in a way to the average player. Outside of vets and the competitive scene, players aren't going to know which is which until someone tells them, which sometimes doesn't happen and people leave frustrated over perceivably inconsistent gameplay.

    There were talks earlier about having the sound of a weapon changing pitch depending on the weapon level researched, which makes sense as you can get the threat level ingrained easier with those kind of audio cues. Like that, but visually being able to see that 'Marines get more armor, when they get more armor.' players can better learn about armor levels and get a more consistent gameplay experience.
    twiliteblue
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,726 Advanced user
    I can get behind having armor changing visually to make it easier to see. The problem I see right now is memory. I don't think this could happen unless something big happens like x64 ns2.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    McGlaspie
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 1,024 Advanced user
    If this could be implemented, I think it should be. Seems great idea if not for engine limitations I guess.
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    I can get behind having armor changing visually to make it easier to see. The problem I see right now is memory. I don't think this could happen unless something big happens like x64 ns2.

    The vast majority of users on Steam have a 64-bit operating system and the game no longer supports Windows XP, UWE should really focus on updating NS2's spark engine by this point.

    Yes, easier said then done but at the end of it the game is never going to be able to have a flourishing user generated content scene if memory restrictions are holding it back.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,726 Advanced user
    I can agree with that on many respects. I have wanted ns2 to be x64 for a long time. As I understand it, going x64 is a serious undertaking. They consider it an option but it is unlikely to be worked on anytime soon.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • roxxkattroxxkatt Join Date: 2014-12-28 Member: 200431Members Posts: 167 Fully active user
    its a good idea
    and if its too difficult to add, this can be added easily 2 different ways:
    1) passing 2 vars to av shader
    2) simply display 2 icons when aliens press J
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