Bootcamp Update - Natural Selection 2

135

Comments

  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    vc9tbffy041p.jpg
    @Nordic, your screen proves my point! The Taunt server is the only one that is not rookie. Every "Taunt" server I have played has some weird mod going and usually with a very custom map. I see this one has summit so maybe that Taunt is an exception. LuckyFkers, ok 1 player. Maybe I can sit on a server and wait... But gee, two PERFECTLY servers, almost full and guess what???? I can't join them. And "vanilla" to me is no siege mode, NS2LARGE, whatever.. I click "NS2" in the left corner.

    BTW, how did you do a screen shot? I hit "print screen" and it does nothing. Ahh, maybe a steam screen shot. I'll post some East Coast shots if if we help prove my point.

    FYI, I tried two more times to play since my previous post. I couldn't play. Ended up playing Rocket League all night and not NS2. I am furious over this patch.

    I IWANT A COMMENT FROM UWE OR CDT or whatever you are called these days on why you destroyed the game with this patch.

    Update: There, tried to play literally 30 seconds are posting and sure enough, I can't play. AGAIN. Look at it.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    If by the Taunt server, you mean Tactical Gamer - Taunt. They play vanilla ns2. They have some mods that change how concede happens but it is still vanilla ns2 gameplay. They play custom maps there sometimes, but most games are like any other server (summit,veil, and tram).

    Your screenshot is more telling than mine. You really don't have a server you can join. As I mentioned though. Tactical Freedom and Tactical Gamer both have pathways to a free reserved slot.
  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    TGNS (Tactical Gamer) is 8v8, and it's widely known as vanilla.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @MrChoke So your complaint is that there are too many full servers? I see no reason to revert a patch over this..

    Seed an empty server you enjoy - if every other server you would normally join (And don't have reserved slots to) are full, then there are more out there like you who are waiting for a spot.

  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    Nordic wrote: »
    Tactical Freedom and Tactical Gamer both have pathways to a free reserved slot.
    yes but in order to use the reserved slot to begin with, they must already be at 16 players which likely means all you can do is spectate and hope the game ends soon.
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
    edited January 2016
    Back to another topic here:
    Just sat through an hour long game for your benefit. Aplogies for the mic gain, But point is, this game went impressively well for being all greens, and at the end the people sounded like they were having fun.

    Also, tell whoever runs these UWE servers that this one was literally only running derelict.


    My things I noticed:
    1. Being in Obs range isn't immediately intuitive.
    2. Damage Types weren't understood
    3. People Like Chairs.
    4. Marines don't like spending res.
    5. Fades are just wierd to rookies, and they like treating lerks like a shooter class.


    EDIT: The game after this one lasted 10 minutes and ended with a chair rush apparently (was alt tabbed to come back to a game that was ending rapidly).
  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    When evaluating the Rookies Only Server feature before, how have I never considered the benefit of its research and observation potential? My goodness... it's like a daily chance to observe how purely new players are receiving the title's design decisions. That's delicious.
  • MrChokeMrChoke Join Date: 2012-12-13 Member: 174990Members, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @MrChoke So your complaint is that there are too many full servers? I see no reason to revert a patch over this..

    Seed an empty server you enjoy - if every other server you would normally join (And don't have reserved slots to) are full, then there are more out there like you who are waiting for a spot.

    So where as I almost always got on a server after a short wait, you are now asking me (and others) to try to seed an empty server? How long will that take usually take? Meanwhile, at any one moment there are at least 5 partially full, good servers I could have joined BEFORE and now CAN'T. Instead I get to watch people have fun on one of these servers??? Good idea. Thanks for screwing me and my 2+ years of playing this game. You suck CDT.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    MrChoke wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @MrChoke So your complaint is that there are too many full servers? I see no reason to revert a patch over this..

    Seed an empty server you enjoy - if every other server you would normally join (And don't have reserved slots to) are full, then there are more out there like you who are waiting for a spot.

    So where as I almost always got on a server after a short wait, you are now asking me (and others) to try to seed an empty server? How long will that take usually take? Meanwhile, at any one moment there are at least 5 partially full, good servers I could have joined BEFORE and now CAN'T. Instead I get to watch people have fun on one of these servers??? Good idea. Thanks for screwing me and my 2+ years of playing this game. You suck CDT.

    Well, yes. You aren't some special person being excluded from games by some conspiracy, there are other people who look at the full servers and decide to go do something else. If you and others would just seed servers, you would have another active server. Also, what do you think people do before the evenings? Did you think all of those servers are populated 24/7? They seed so that they get others to join the server.

    I don't get your frustration at the rookie servers either. Those are servers that didn't exist before, so maybe you can explain how they are taking away your enjoyment of the game by existing now and you can't play on them. Playing with rookies isn't fun anyway. And please, 200 ping is perfectly fine to play on.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    edited January 2016
    Wyzcrak wrote: »
    When evaluating the Rookies Only Server feature before, how have I never considered the benefit of its research and observation potential? My goodness... it's like a daily chance to observe how purely new players are receiving the title's design decisions. That's delicious.

    Did that earlier tonight. Specced a rookie only server and coached an alien team to victory, back from the brink of defeat.
    MrChoke wrote: »
    So where as I almost always got on a server after a short wait, you are now asking me (and others) to try to seed an empty server? How long will that take usually take? Meanwhile, at any one moment there are at least 5 partially full, good servers I could have joined BEFORE and now CAN'T. Instead I get to watch people have fun on one of these servers??? Good idea. Thanks for screwing me and my 2+ years of playing this game. You suck CDT.

    First of all, blame us, not the CDT. Second, there have been quite a few more players on than normal since the winter sale. I would guess that we'll be seeing some more non-rookie servers springing up pretty soon to meet the demand. Only just in the last few weeks has TacticalFreedom come back from the dead and been consistently full, for example.
  • SquishpokePOOPFACESquishpokePOOPFACE -21,248 posts (ignore below) Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165262Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2016
    Nordic wrote: »
    The issue of not knowing how to use bilebomb, or what it even does, should be resolved with the tutorials that @BeigeAlert is working on. Even still, rookies do not need veterans. Let them play the game at their own pace and join the regular servers if they want to, or when they reach level 3. I see no issues here worth mentioning.

    It's not an issue in itself. Just a predictable phenomenon. Isolation is not bad a all. The new players can 'discover' the game, wander in the maps etc... Some useful first step.

    But level 3 is still young to my opinion, to open the pandora box. And above all, i'm sure 99.99% of them will rely on what they see on this "bootcamp" sessions. It will be more or less, killing stuff... any stuff they can kill. It's just using what they already know (a FPS shooter in space) and not inviting them to learn something else.

    In this regard i can understand what @_INTER_ said. Yes they won't be total rookies when they will be able to join non green servers. But the gap is still huge in a level 3 versus +80 encounter (I don't even know my level, but you get the point). It will only postpone the "Stomp syndrome". Not bad for a start but not quite there yet.

    If they play together and only together it will be somewhat ok. But it won't happen, we all know that. They will click on "Rapist Server" sooner or later and expose themselves to the same things/problems. There lies the need for a course.

    Maybe there's some room for an intermediate game mode. Like forcing them to accomplish something in time. Like a race. Each check points give more time. It will change priorities in their minds. But it's completely hypothetical.


    PS: Only rely on what is available. The tutorials aren't. I got no information on when they will be available. So i don't include it in the process for now. 1 today is better than 2 tomorrows.

    If they play long enough to get to level 3, they should be hooked on the game by now. Hopefully they'll appreciate the challenge of the standard servers and plunge right in.

    Rookie only is a good way to prevent a total washout for the poor bastards that haven't played at all.
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Playing with 200 ping is perfectly NOT fine, especially on NS2. lol

    Anyway, good update. Wish it could have been implemented after the tutorial revamp though.
  • KatzenfleischKatzenfleisch Join Date: 2014-03-21 Member: 194881Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    edited January 2016
    Playing with 200 ping is perfectly fine.
    Try to play with a 250+ping with burst going sometime to 3500 (net_stats values), a fps around 25 that easily get down 15 or 5 depending on where you are on the map, the heat of the machine, and what the players around you are doing and finally, lots of mini-freeze of approx half a second (just at the moment you get in the action for example, and flashing any weak lifeform. Murphy's law). Then I assure one will see the game differently and see that having a perfect ping is far from being the only aspect NS2 (as a game) has: Mapping (lights, sounds, architecture, effects, etc), animation, weapons, lifeforms, RT part of the game, strategy, (everything beside the pure fps part in fact).

    But I agree that the "Perfect" playing condition are what is implicitly described above and are really confortable to play with, but do not forget that the first goal of a game is to play it and enjoy it.

    :)

    Regarding the waiting time there is the gather stuff available in last resort, works quite well. There are also a few comp communities waiting for members and playing regulary on there own within a private server. Never had any issues on my side.
    Regarding the rookie only servers: I noticed the issue with endless games that end up in a balance forfeit due to bots being replaced by players, but not the other way around. I have even seen rookies welding each others exo, and the com trying all the features of the game. I think this is a pretty good start for rookies.
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Used to play competitive with a team against AUS and US players and although I can manage with 100/150 ping, 200 and above is definitely not fine. But that's not what the topic is about anyway.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    edited January 2016
    MrChoke wrote: »
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @MrChoke So your complaint is that there are too many full servers? I see no reason to revert a patch over this..

    Seed an empty server you enjoy - if every other server you would normally join (And don't have reserved slots to) are full, then there are more out there like you who are waiting for a spot.

    So where as I almost always got on a server after a short wait, you are now asking me (and others) to try to seed an empty server? How long will that take usually take? Meanwhile, at any one moment there are at least 5 partially full, good servers I could have joined BEFORE and now CAN'T. Instead I get to watch people have fun on one of these servers??? Good idea. Thanks for screwing me and my 2+ years of playing this game. You suck CDT.

    It doesn't take as long as you think to either seed a server or wait for a slot to open.

    If it's the morning I usually hop onto an empty server and it will start filling up within 10 minutes or so. (though there are some times where it will take longer of course)

    If it's the evening I just queue up for a full server then hit shift+tab and use the steam web browser to hit up the forums.. Usually I'm in the server within 5 minutes. (before I even get a chance to read through one thread)
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    Pelargir wrote: »
    Playing with 200 ping is perfectly NOT fine, especially on NS2. lol

    Anyway, good update. Wish it could have been implemented after the tutorial revamp though.

    Sure it is. There are some interp issues but its still a smooth experience. Its only when you get to maybe 350 that there is a clear disconnect between client and server.

  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Pelargir wrote: »
    Playing with 200 ping is perfectly NOT fine, especially on NS2. lol

    Anyway, good update. Wish it could have been implemented after the tutorial revamp though.

    Sure it is. There are some interp issues but its still a smooth experience. Its only when you get to maybe 350 that there is a clear disconnect between client and server.

    Sorry but no.. 200+ ping is way too laggy... It actually makes it feel like cheating sometimes because you know the only way you killed that lerk/fade is because your laggy 200+ ping client says you did.. To them they're already out of the room and down the hall (sometimes even around multiple corners) when they die...
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Calego wrote: »
    Back to another topic here:
    Just sat through an hour long game for your benefit. Aplogies for the mic gain, But point is, this game went impressively well for being all greens, and at the end the people sounded like they were having fun.

    Also, tell whoever runs these UWE servers that this one was literally only running derelict.


    My things I noticed:
    1. Being in Obs range isn't immediately intuitive.
    2. Damage Types weren't understood
    3. People Like Chairs.
    4. Marines don't like spending res.
    5. Fades are just wierd to rookies, and they like treating lerks like a shooter class.


    EDIT: The game after this one lasted 10 minutes and ended with a chair rush apparently (was alt tabbed to come back to a game that was ending rapidly).

    1. There should really be some kind of ! icon that lights up on your screen if you are in obs range, I remember for quite a white when I first started that I would completely not notice the obs light flashes over my viewmodel

    4. saving up for exo, or dont understand the proper times to buy things. many marines underestimate teh power of a shotgun
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    edited January 2016
    MoFo1 wrote: »
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Pelargir wrote: »
    Playing with 200 ping is perfectly NOT fine, especially on NS2. lol

    Anyway, good update. Wish it could have been implemented after the tutorial revamp though.

    Sure it is. There are some interp issues but its still a smooth experience. Its only when you get to maybe 350 that there is a clear disconnect between client and server.

    Sorry but no.. 200+ ping is way too laggy... It actually makes it feel like cheating sometimes because you know the only way you killed that lerk/fade is because your laggy 200+ ping client says you did.. To them they're already out of the room and down the hall (sometimes even around multiple corners) when they die...

    *eye roll* So what? They were still in the room on the 200 ping person. So they realised they were dead a little later than they would have been. Wow. Real cheats.

    You might have a point if you were to say they could exploit the ping to launch an ambush and get an extra hit before the other person realised it, but they are vulnerable to the same and is actually a slight handicap. Its really not a major game changer.
  • PelargirPelargir Join Date: 2013-07-02 Member: 185857Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Forum staff
    Aeglos wrote: »
    You might have a point if you were to say they could exploit the ping to launch an ambush and get an extra hit before the other person realised it, but they are vulnerable to the same and is actually a slight handicap. Its really not a major game changer.

    It actually is. There are people playing with high ping more accustomed than some others. If you can practice and play with 200+ ping, you'll figure out how valuable it can be when you face players who barely play with such a ping.

    I'm European, most of my matches were against EU teams so there was no real problem. But when I had to fight against competitive AUS players who were more used than me to battle with high ping, there was a huge difference. You have to play with a delay, and handle it. So yes, sorry but you can abuse that. And even if you couldn't, I don't enjoy playing a game where I need to pre-shot something to make sure I actually hit it.

    It's no cheat. But if you usually play with a malus, comes a moment you get used to it and gain an advantage against those who didn't get used to it.
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    I played against RioS yesterday and it was nearly unplaybale cause he had an ping of 680 and more.
    His fade killed me from like 7 meters away.

    Sorry RioS, but i think you know that playing against this high ping is like pain in the ass.

    Up to 200 should be playable on the other side.
    Its not perfect, but far away from what i discribed above.


  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue
    Btw. how did we end in an ping discussion in the Bootcamp thread again?
    *cough* offtopic?
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    dePARA wrote: »
    Btw. how did we end in an ping discussion in the Bootcamp thread again?
    *cough* offtopic?

    Someone said all servers were full and play now sent him to a 200 ping server.

    And really, any perceived advantages a high pinger has are the same advantages you have against the high pinger. Not sure what you are complaining about. Unless the person has an unstable connection and is warping, but people with 15 ping can warp too.
  • TinkiTinki Join Date: 2013-12-03 Member: 189715Members
    edited January 2016
    This is looking great right now, but could you :
    - create a map rotation, it's only derelict right now
    - let more experienced players with a mic go com (without the ability to logout)
    - find a way to kick smurf from this server (point/min), just joined and found this guys....

    http://hive.naturalselection2.com/profile/192681458
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/ainacs/

    another one (this one was nicer i guess.... he didn't want to kill the very bad lifeform)
    http://hive.naturalselection2.com/profile/26718483
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/sourcealex/

  • joshhhjoshhh Milwaukee, WI Join Date: 2011-06-21 Member: 105717Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Rios is on sat internet or something similar. Its quite amusing playing against him. :)
  • deathshrouddeathshroud Join Date: 2010-04-10 Member: 71291Members
    edited January 2016
    Calego wrote: »
    Back to another topic here:
    Just sat through an hour long game for your benefit. Aplogies for the mic gain, But point is, this game went impressively well for being all greens, and at the end the people sounded like they were having fun.

    Also, tell whoever runs these UWE servers that this one was literally only running derelict.


    My things I noticed:
    1. Being in Obs range isn't immediately intuitive.
    2. Damage Types weren't understood
    3. People Like Chairs.
    4. Marines don't like spending res.
    5. Fades are just wierd to rookies, and they like treating lerks like a shooter class.


    EDIT: The game after this one lasted 10 minutes and ended with a chair rush apparently (was alt tabbed to come back to a game that was ending rapidly).

    1. we make the alien screen flash red
    2. even veterans dont understand em
    3. add more chairs
    4. give them stuff for free
    5. remove fades and give lerks guns


    Game makes more monies
  • GoldenGolden Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31169Members, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    @MrChoke Try joining the gathers at ensl.org/. We've had a huge influx of non-comp players, which is great.
  • CalegoCalego Join Date: 2013-01-24 Member: 181848Members, NS2 Map Tester
    Calego wrote: »
    Back to another topic here:
    Just sat through an hour long game for your benefit. Aplogies for the mic gain, But point is, this game went impressively well for being all greens, and at the end the people sounded like they were having fun.

    Also, tell whoever runs these UWE servers that this one was literally only running derelict.


    My things I noticed:
    1. Being in Obs range isn't immediately intuitive.
    2. Damage Types weren't understood
    3. People Like Chairs.
    4. Marines don't like spending res.
    5. Fades are just wierd to rookies, and they like treating lerks like a shooter class.


    EDIT: The game after this one lasted 10 minutes and ended with a chair rush apparently (was alt tabbed to come back to a game that was ending rapidly).

    1. There should really be some kind of ! icon that lights up on your screen if you are in obs range, I remember for quite a white when I first started that I would completely not notice the obs light flashes over my viewmodel

    4. saving up for exo, or dont understand the proper times to buy things. many marines underestimate teh power of a shotgun

    Definitely need something that lets them know they're being detected, esp when they're using Phantom, or shift-sneaking.

    4 was weird, I saw a res-capped marine and another one close, I'm not sure they knew that they had or could spend money. I think the current tutorial does cover this though, it's just something that's easy to forget, like re-evolving your traits everytime you spawn.
    Calego wrote: »
    Back to another topic here:
    Just sat through an hour long game for your benefit. Aplogies for the mic gain, But point is, this game went impressively well for being all greens, and at the end the people sounded like they were having fun.

    Also, tell whoever runs these UWE servers that this one was literally only running derelict.


    My things I noticed:
    1. Being in Obs range isn't immediately intuitive.
    2. Damage Types weren't understood
    3. People Like Chairs.
    4. Marines don't like spending res.
    5. Fades are just wierd to rookies, and they like treating lerks like a shooter class.


    EDIT: The game after this one lasted 10 minutes and ended with a chair rush apparently (was alt tabbed to come back to a game that was ending rapidly).

    1. we make the alien screen flash red
    2. even veterans dont understand em
    3. add more chairs
    4. give them stuff for free
    5. remove fades and give lerks guns


    Game makes more monies

    2. is too true... But at least we get that fades don't do structure damage and bile does uber damage.
    3. My best guess for this was that the marine comm liked the idea that he could beacon to the room if it had a chair in it. At one point he beaconed to Western, the chair there died and the gate, but he spent his last 15 res on a replacement chair, rather than a new gate. Elseways he knew that aliens needed more hives, so rather than let them even think about dropping one, he put a chair everywhere.
    5: I'm all for it. I want fades with GLs and Lerks with Shotguns and Flamers coming out their butts.
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    @Calego Nice cast Calego :) I liked the campfire metaphor.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Aeglos wrote: »
    Someone said all servers were full and play now sent him to a 200 ping server.

    And really, any perceived advantages a high pinger has are the same advantages you have against the high pinger. Not sure what you are complaining about. Unless the person has an unstable connection and is warping, but people with 15 ping can warp too.

    If you have a high ping (>130), you can rush in a room, check left corner, check right corner, empty a clip on the skulk and move on. You will barely see the skulk model move. Because by the time you do all that, he only sees you entering the room.

    Playable or not ? it's a matter of opinion, and how you play the game. But for sure it transforms you into a deadly ghost if you know how to exploit it. VPN users are the worst.

    This raise a question. How does the game deal with huge latency gaps ? When mr 200ping meets mr 30ping... So far i see a good fade have a bigger impact on games when he's lagging...
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