Aim To Please Update (279) Released! - Natural Selection 2

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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    simba wrote: »
    simba wrote: »
    The "Play now" button is going to have problems. Using it today, I have found it spits me on an empty server 70% of the time (I tried 10 times throughout the day). It doesn't seem like enough people use this to make the "spit me on an empty server" work (by potentially populating it).

    Also, one of the successes, it spit me on a server that wouldn't let me play because I had too many hours.

    I think "Play now" will be fundamentally flawed due to the moddable nature of NS2. What happens if I am banned from the server it tries to put me on?

    Do you use ns2+? Because that's currently not compatible with "Play Now".

    I do. Me and the rest of the ns2 community... ? This is kind of my point. It's VERY hard to implement features that will be broken due to the incredibly moddable nature of NS2. If it doesn't work with a mod that is incredibly popular, then it's not going to work. Unless the mod is official or every feature is made with mod support, which will quickly lead to an unmanageable mess.

    The reason we didn't catch this beforehand is that it was only broken if ns2+ was installed client side. Most people ( I think) play on servers with ns2+ but haven't installed it personally and it didn't affect them. (Mendasp has fixed it now anyways.)
  • KittyAttackKittyAttack California Join Date: 2013-11-29 Member: 189622Members, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Wow, You broke hit reg in this last update for me and caused lots of hitching... Cannot play anymore. I also heard all NS2+ servers have an even worse time with hit reg and lag now than a a normal non NS2+ server..... So Please just roll this update back and stop messing with the game...


    No one is going to play it at this rate. It is just not funny anymore. I invested too many hours to just be forced into another laggy broken hit registration update that could be indefinite. I love this game. Please, make it right! Or all was for nothing.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    Wow, You broke hit reg in this last update for me and caused lots of hitching... Cannot play anymore. I also heard all NS2+ servers have an even worse time with hit reg and lag now than a a normal non NS2+ server..... So Please just roll this update back and stop messing with the game...


    No one is going to play it at this rate. It is just not funny anymore. I invested too many hours to just be forced into another laggy broken hit registration update that could be indefinite. I love this game. Please, make it right! Or all was for nothing.

    Really? My game is butter smooth. Could you please make a post in the technical support forum for this?
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @KittyAttack

    I am not seeing what you are reporting, on any server. And you're the first to report a worse experience than the previous build.

    As such, could you please record some footage with shadowplay or fraps etc using the hitreg console command and viewing the console after you've experienced hitreg failure?
    I am looking for something similar to this. (demonstrates one of the few remaining hitreg issues)

    Keep in mind you can only run the hitreg command with tests on (sv_tests 1) and you should limit the amount of people using the hitreg cmd to just yourself as it hogs bandwidth.
    Ideally, a video comparing Ns2+ and no Ns2+ using similar events like a benchmark, would be the best case for pointing out an issue that we haven't been able to reproduce.
    Thanks
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    'play now' not perfect but still very good. Sometimes selected server not suited (kicks for > 1000 hive etc). Usually quick way to find game, as intended.
    Good job!
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @KittyAttack

    I am not seeing what you are reporting, on any server. And you're the first to report a worse experience than the previous build.

    As such, could you please record some footage with shadowplay or fraps etc using the hitreg console command and viewing the console after you've experienced hitreg failure?
    I am looking for something similar to this. (demonstrates one of the few remaining hitreg issues)

    Keep in mind you can only run the hitreg command with tests on (sv_tests 1) and you should limit the amount of people using the hitreg cmd to just yourself as it hogs bandwidth.
    Ideally, a video comparing Ns2+ and no Ns2+ using similar events like a benchmark, would be the best case for pointing out an issue that we haven't been able to reproduce.
    Thanks

    I can't vouch for the bad hitreg, but i can say that i have encountered sometimes a very odd walljump where a skulks collision box is infront of the actual model, i'll need to record this again (it has something to do with jumping off a wall(maybe corner?)

    Also with hitreg commands that were added, may we have some more explaination as to what they're actually doing (as well as tests)
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    It would be better to have the Hitreg command available directly in normal mode.
    Make it the same as the FPS+graphic detail (r_stats)
    So people can record it with shadow play without opening the console all the time.
  • IxianIxian Denmark Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
    Mendasp: Keeping the NS2 Dream alive! <3
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    @IronHorse I reported it clearly in an open beta test, but I'm giving it the chance now that I need to adjust my aim to forget whatever compensation I had developed.

    I've had some ridiculous full shotgun no-reg on onos though as the most obvious of it all. Player accuracies are down a few % in general from what I've seen.
  • AsranielAsraniel Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
    Frozen wrote: »
    @IronHorse I reported it clearly in an open beta test, but I'm giving it the chance now that I need to adjust my aim to forget whatever compensation I had developed.

    I've had some ridiculous full shotgun no-reg on onos though as the most obvious of it all. Player accuracies are down a few % in general from what I've seen.

    Where was this previously reported? We really need a video of this, as well as the list of mods running, your ping and the ping of your opponent. What you describe is very different from what most observe, which makes me wonder if there is some special circumstance to your case.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I can't run hit reg during games, and i can't reproduce things when I don't know how. I just know my average accuracy is down from ~30 to ~25. I'm not the most consistent over time I'm not sure if it's me or the game yet.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    @Unclecrunch yeh, lets NOT make that available during normal play. It can be abused for info, and the bandwidth hog.. no.. just no.

    You know if hitreg improved its also possible your acc went down as you truly missed.
    Especially if you have shadowplay, record it. Then do a frame by frame comparison! (VLC player can run frame by frame)
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited December 2015
    @nizb0ag The graphical representation for collision pills or hitboxes when using the collision command has not been accurate for many years now. So please don't rely on that as a measurement of symptoms.
    See Nordic's informative post for more on the cmd.

    @UncleCrunch What @nordic said in his post.

    @Frozen Point blank Onos hitreg issues are the other known remaining issues (besides the top of a falling model). You can run the cmd during games if tests are turned on by an admin, or you can run it locally in a server you create.
    Grab a video along with the text though (or just show the console like my video did) so we can see how you are reproducing issues.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    This wasn't point blank though. It was some distance. That was an odd one for sure.

    I'm seeing some improvementsin my aim on skulks. Definitely can't hit the tail end anymore like i was. So thats probly fixed except that I was compensating. (Thus why I never complained about most hit reg until any changes). Same thing with fades, but my muscle memory is struggling more there
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    @Unclecrunch yeh, lets NOT make that available during normal play. It can be abused for info, and the bandwidth hog.. no.. just no.

    You know if hitreg improved its also possible your acc went down as you truly missed.
    Especially if you have shadowplay, record it. Then do a frame by frame comparison! (VLC player can run frame by frame)

    Well the people who would want to use it well... they already don't need it, right ?

    When i said "normal mode" it's on the screen display (so testing mode need to be on). Like r_stats does. A text block on the screen top corner.


    I've seen myself today having several no reg on a Onos. Ok I'm not so good at aiming but that damn Onos was close. No video needed. There is something strange obviously. It looked like this onos had 10 meters long gore.

    I also "took by surprise a skulk" (from behind) and I shot with my SG. Surprise! I had to shot a second time. It was like "click... wait, what ? hoo shi... click" It was like something got lost in the process.

    It may be related to servers speed and / or client lag. I've seen rubber band effect lately (on 1 or 2 servers).

    I think UWE/CDT should create a complete testing protocol for this kind of things. Also enforce client configuration too...

    Feel free to test it on my server (PM me).

  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
    @UncleCrunch uhm mate.. scroll up to ironhorse's post.
  • Cr4zyb4st4rdCr4zyb4st4rd United Kingdom Join Date: 2012-08-09 Member: 155200Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    Frozen wrote: »
    This wasn't point blank though. It was some distance. That was an odd one for sure.

    I'm seeing some improvementsin my aim on skulks. Definitely can't hit the tail end anymore like i was. So thats probly fixed except that I was compensating. (Thus why I never complained about most hit reg until any changes). Same thing with fades, but my muscle memory is struggling more there

    Are you sure the onos was not affected by mucous? If it was you get /NO FREAKING FEEDBACK/ because the mucous acts as if its a wall and not a lifeform.

    If mucous actually had player feedback maybe all these full onos meatshot reports would stop because outside of mucous ive not seen it myself.

    0dmg numbers and hitsound feedback would be great for it.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    FYI guys, the hitreg command, while informative, is very taxing. No way can that be enabled during *proper* games.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    @UncleCrunch uhm mate.. scroll up to ironhorse's post.

    Not only onos for what i witnessed.
    That's why I'm suggesting a testing protocol.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    That's why I'm suggesting a testing protocol.
    What is it that you think the Playtesters do exactly if not following a testing protocol?
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    @Cr4zyb4st4rd I'm sure, I don't use any hit indicators except server confirmed blood. And mucous wasn't on anyway.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    IronHorse wrote: »
    What is it that you think the Playtesters do exactly if not following a testing protocol?

    As you said before, there's not enough playtesters. Editing publicly this protocol (assuming there is a potent one) would allow to filter the bad reports (or irrelevant). So far nobody knows if what they see and describe is relevant and usable. Recording videos will just prove that it happens, it won't show / log the specific parameter needed for a real debugging. Especially because we have a little more people on Christmas.

    So far i see more weird stuff since a long time :
    • 1 kilometer long teeth against people who have small ping (<35). Or smaller ping than me.
    • As marine if I press the fire button there is an acceleration of everything (for less than a 1/4 second) that render the skulk movements less predictable.
    • As skulk i often see some kind of "benny hill" show against some marine that have a small ping (plus bandwidth goes up to the sky)

    How can i prove what i see ? uploading hundreds of meg on Youtube is : 1 a lot of time; 2 not gonna help much I'm afraid. You could trust me because of my win/lose ratio of 2.35? Not really is it ?

    So far each build has it's main issue, so far the public cannot report properly. At least a detailed log of the client side. To my knowledge the report tool is still buggy.
  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    If the baker invites me to help her bake the pie, and I decline, I don't forfeit my right to critique it. If I critique too much while denying her continued invitations, my complaints might lose some credibility and are arguably in poor form, especially if "I'm too busy" is my reason for declining her invitations to participate in the creation process.

    @UncleCrunch, your critiques of the playtesting efforts are sufficiently detailed and voluminous now that they might have more credibility and/or effectiveness if you added yourself among the PT volunteers. If you've recently submitted an application and been declined, good on you for at least trying. Otherwise, perhaps you would volunteer your time most helpfully as a proper participant on the playtesting team, however actively your schedule allows. I know the team needs enthusiastic participants.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    @Wyzcrak :
    Let's see what any tester can do with that first.
    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/139741/docking-modified-layout-test
    Report when finished.

    At least we would see how it's organized.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @UncleCrunch You seem to have Playtesters confused for Maptesters. That's a separate team.

    Although we do occasionally assist in that, (in order to provide a more pub-like view) it's most definitely better to rely on Maptesters to test maps and provide feedback, obviously.
    Unless you are looking for bugs in your map like holes, occlusion geo issues, stuck spots etc.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    hmmmm
    maybe testing the game in an environment that is the closest possible to the actual game would provide opportunities to actually find the bugs where they are. Not meaning map bugs of course. 2 hits, one shot...

    Besides you can't honestly separate the two activities in a game development process. I mean it would look 'inefficient' for the least part.
  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    @UncleCrunch Perhaps your joining these teams and participating on them would better enable you to influence how they work.
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