Aim To Please Update (279) Released! - Natural Selection 2

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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    simba wrote: »
    simba wrote: »
    The "Play now" button is going to have problems. Using it today, I have found it spits me on an empty server 70% of the time (I tried 10 times throughout the day). It doesn't seem like enough people use this to make the "spit me on an empty server" work (by potentially populating it).

    Also, one of the successes, it spit me on a server that wouldn't let me play because I had too many hours.

    I think "Play now" will be fundamentally flawed due to the moddable nature of NS2. What happens if I am banned from the server it tries to put me on?

    Do you use ns2+? Because that's currently not compatible with "Play Now".

    I do. Me and the rest of the ns2 community... ? This is kind of my point. It's VERY hard to implement features that will be broken due to the incredibly moddable nature of NS2. If it doesn't work with a mod that is incredibly popular, then it's not going to work. Unless the mod is official or every feature is made with mod support, which will quickly lead to an unmanageable mess.

    The reason we didn't catch this beforehand is that it was only broken if ns2+ was installed client side. Most people ( I think) play on servers with ns2+ but haven't installed it personally and it didn't affect them. (Mendasp has fixed it now anyways.)
  • KittyAttackKittyAttack CaliforniaMembers, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2013-11-29 Member: 189622Posts: 16 Fully active user
    Wow, You broke hit reg in this last update for me and caused lots of hitching... Cannot play anymore. I also heard all NS2+ servers have an even worse time with hit reg and lag now than a a normal non NS2+ server..... So Please just roll this update back and stop messing with the game...


    No one is going to play it at this rate. It is just not funny anymore. I invested too many hours to just be forced into another laggy broken hit registration update that could be indefinite. I love this game. Please, make it right! Or all was for nothing.
    JektMyxReconMarauder
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert TexasMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Posts: 2,829 admin
    Wow, You broke hit reg in this last update for me and caused lots of hitching... Cannot play anymore. I also heard all NS2+ servers have an even worse time with hit reg and lag now than a a normal non NS2+ server..... So Please just roll this update back and stop messing with the game...


    No one is going to play it at this rate. It is just not funny anymore. I invested too many hours to just be forced into another laggy broken hit registration update that could be indefinite. I love this game. Please, make it right! Or all was for nothing.

    Really? My game is butter smooth. Could you please make a post in the technical support forum for this?
    Narfwak
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    @KittyAttack

    I am not seeing what you are reporting, on any server. And you're the first to report a worse experience than the previous build.

    As such, could you please record some footage with shadowplay or fraps etc using the hitreg console command and viewing the console after you've experienced hitreg failure?
    I am looking for something similar to this. (demonstrates one of the few remaining hitreg issues)

    Keep in mind you can only run the hitreg command with tests on (sv_tests 1) and you should limit the amount of people using the hitreg cmd to just yourself as it hogs bandwidth.
    Ideally, a video comparing Ns2+ and no Ns2+ using similar events like a benchmark, would be the best case for pointing out an issue that we haven't been able to reproduce.
    Thanks
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    Narfwak
  • CCTEECCTEE Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Posts: 772 Advanced user
    'play now' not perfect but still very good. Sometimes selected server not suited (kicks for > 1000 hive etc). Usually quick way to find game, as intended.
    Good job!
    grrrr im beast
  • ArchieArchie AntarcticaMembers, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Posts: 441 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    @KittyAttack

    I am not seeing what you are reporting, on any server. And you're the first to report a worse experience than the previous build.

    As such, could you please record some footage with shadowplay or fraps etc using the hitreg console command and viewing the console after you've experienced hitreg failure?
    I am looking for something similar to this. (demonstrates one of the few remaining hitreg issues)

    Keep in mind you can only run the hitreg command with tests on (sv_tests 1) and you should limit the amount of people using the hitreg cmd to just yourself as it hogs bandwidth.
    Ideally, a video comparing Ns2+ and no Ns2+ using similar events like a benchmark, would be the best case for pointing out an issue that we haven't been able to reproduce.
    Thanks

    I can't vouch for the bad hitreg, but i can say that i have encountered sometimes a very odd walljump where a skulks collision box is infront of the actual model, i'll need to record this again (it has something to do with jumping off a wall(maybe corner?)

    Also with hitreg commands that were added, may we have some more explaination as to what they're actually doing (as well as tests)
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  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise landMembers, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    It would be better to have the Hitreg command available directly in normal mode.
    Make it the same as the FPS+graphic detail (r_stats)
    So people can record it with shadow play without opening the console all the time.
    ChubbChubbs ???

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  • IxianIxian DenmarkMembers, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2014-03-16 Member: 194783Posts: 182 Advanced user
    Mendasp: Keeping the NS2 Dream alive! <3
    Woehler
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    @IronHorse I reported it clearly in an open beta test, but I'm giving it the chance now that I need to adjust my aim to forget whatever compensation I had developed.

    I've had some ridiculous full shotgun no-reg on onos though as the most obvious of it all. Player accuracies are down a few % in general from what I've seen.
    mattji104
    KittyAttack
  • AsranielAsraniel Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer Join Date: 2002-06-03 Member: 724Posts: 2,557 mod
    Frozen wrote: »
    @IronHorse I reported it clearly in an open beta test, but I'm giving it the chance now that I need to adjust my aim to forget whatever compensation I had developed.

    I've had some ridiculous full shotgun no-reg on onos though as the most obvious of it all. Player accuracies are down a few % in general from what I've seen.

    Where was this previously reported? We really need a video of this, as well as the list of mods running, your ping and the ping of your opponent. What you describe is very different from what most observe, which makes me wonder if there is some special circumstance to your case.
    Ollj: "ns_napo, the first good custom map ever" ns_napo
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    I can't run hit reg during games, and i can't reproduce things when I don't know how. I just know my average accuracy is down from ~30 to ~25. I'm not the most consistent over time I'm not sure if it's me or the game yet.
    mattji104
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    @Unclecrunch yeh, lets NOT make that available during normal play. It can be abused for info, and the bandwidth hog.. no.. just no.

    You know if hitreg improved its also possible your acc went down as you truly missed.
    Especially if you have shadowplay, record it. Then do a frame by frame comparison! (VLC player can run frame by frame)
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  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    edited December 2015
    @nizb0ag The graphical representation for collision pills or hitboxes when using the collision command has not been accurate for many years now. So please don't rely on that as a measurement of symptoms.
    See Nordic's informative post for more on the cmd.

    @UncleCrunch What @nordic said in his post.

    @Frozen Point blank Onos hitreg issues are the other known remaining issues (besides the top of a falling model). You can run the cmd during games if tests are turned on by an admin, or you can run it locally in a server you create.
    Grab a video along with the text though (or just show the console like my video did) so we can see how you are reproducing issues.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    BeigeAlertSoul_Rider
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    This wasn't point blank though. It was some distance. That was an odd one for sure.

    I'm seeing some improvementsin my aim on skulks. Definitely can't hit the tail end anymore like i was. So thats probly fixed except that I was compensating. (Thus why I never complained about most hit reg until any changes). Same thing with fades, but my muscle memory is struggling more there
    mattji104
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise landMembers, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    @Unclecrunch yeh, lets NOT make that available during normal play. It can be abused for info, and the bandwidth hog.. no.. just no.

    You know if hitreg improved its also possible your acc went down as you truly missed.
    Especially if you have shadowplay, record it. Then do a frame by frame comparison! (VLC player can run frame by frame)

    Well the people who would want to use it well... they already don't need it, right ?

    When i said "normal mode" it's on the screen display (so testing mode need to be on). Like r_stats does. A text block on the screen top corner.


    I've seen myself today having several no reg on a Onos. Ok I'm not so good at aiming but that damn Onos was close. No video needed. There is something strange obviously. It looked like this onos had 10 meters long gore.

    I also "took by surprise a skulk" (from behind) and I shot with my SG. Surprise! I had to shot a second time. It was like "click... wait, what ? hoo shi... click" It was like something got lost in the process.

    It may be related to servers speed and / or client lag. I've seen rubber band effect lately (on 1 or 2 servers).

    I think UWE/CDT should create a complete testing protocol for this kind of things. Also enforce client configuration too...

    Feel free to test it on my server (PM me).

    ChubbChubbs ???

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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    @UncleCrunch uhm mate.. scroll up to ironhorse's post.
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  • Cr4zyb4st4rdCr4zyb4st4rd United KingdomMembers, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-08-09 Member: 155200Posts: 210 Fully active user
    Frozen wrote: »
    This wasn't point blank though. It was some distance. That was an odd one for sure.

    I'm seeing some improvementsin my aim on skulks. Definitely can't hit the tail end anymore like i was. So thats probly fixed except that I was compensating. (Thus why I never complained about most hit reg until any changes). Same thing with fades, but my muscle memory is struggling more there

    Are you sure the onos was not affected by mucous? If it was you get /NO FREAKING FEEDBACK/ because the mucous acts as if its a wall and not a lifeform.

    If mucous actually had player feedback maybe all these full onos meatshot reports would stop because outside of mucous ive not seen it myself.

    0dmg numbers and hitsound feedback would be great for it.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert TexasMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Posts: 2,829 admin
    FYI guys, the hitreg command, while informative, is very taxing. No way can that be enabled during *proper* games.
    IronHorseMcGlaspieNarfwakKittyAttack
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise landMembers, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    @UncleCrunch uhm mate.. scroll up to ironhorse's post.

    Not only onos for what i witnessed.
    That's why I'm suggesting a testing protocol.
    ChubbChubbs ???

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    KittyAttack
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    That's why I'm suggesting a testing protocol.
    What is it that you think the Playtesters do exactly if not following a testing protocol?
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
    Soul_Rider
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NYMembers, Constellation Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Posts: 1,481 Advanced user
    @Cr4zyb4st4rd I'm sure, I don't use any hit indicators except server confirmed blood. And mucous wasn't on anyway.
    mattji104
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise landMembers, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    IronHorse wrote: »
    What is it that you think the Playtesters do exactly if not following a testing protocol?

    As you said before, there's not enough playtesters. Editing publicly this protocol (assuming there is a potent one) would allow to filter the bad reports (or irrelevant). So far nobody knows if what they see and describe is relevant and usable. Recording videos will just prove that it happens, it won't show / log the specific parameter needed for a real debugging. Especially because we have a little more people on Christmas.

    So far i see more weird stuff since a long time :
    • 1 kilometer long teeth against people who have small ping (<35). Or smaller ping than me.
    • As marine if I press the fire button there is an acceleration of everything (for less than a 1/4 second) that render the skulk movements less predictable.
    • As skulk i often see some kind of "benny hill" show against some marine that have a small ping (plus bandwidth goes up to the sky)

    How can i prove what i see ? uploading hundreds of meg on Youtube is : 1 a lot of time; 2 not gonna help much I'm afraid. You could trust me because of my win/lose ratio of 2.35? Not really is it ?

    So far each build has it's main issue, so far the public cannot report properly. At least a detailed log of the client side. To my knowledge the report tool is still buggy.
    ChubbChubbs ???

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  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Posts: 920 mod
    If the baker invites me to help her bake the pie, and I decline, I don't forfeit my right to critique it. If I critique too much while denying her continued invitations, my complaints might lose some credibility and are arguably in poor form, especially if "I'm too busy" is my reason for declining her invitations to participate in the creation process.

    @UncleCrunch, your critiques of the playtesting efforts are sufficiently detailed and voluminous now that they might have more credibility and/or effectiveness if you added yourself among the PT volunteers. If you've recently submitted an application and been declined, good on you for at least trying. Otherwise, perhaps you would volunteer your time most helpfully as a proper participant on the playtesting team, however actively your schedule allows. I know the team needs enthusiastic participants.
    TGNS Portal | NS2 side-by-side game viewer
    IronHorse wrote: »
    TG's win or lose mod that replaces the concede function is the best of both worlds and should be official.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise landMembers, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    @Wyzcrak :
    Let's see what any tester can do with that first.
    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/139741/docking-modified-layout-test
    Report when finished.

    At least we would see how it's organized.
    ChubbChubbs ???

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  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorMembers, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Posts: 8,194 admin
    @UncleCrunch You seem to have Playtesters confused for Maptesters. That's a separate team.

    Although we do occasionally assist in that, (in order to provide a more pub-like view) it's most definitely better to rely on Maptesters to test maps and provide feedback, obviously.
    Unless you are looking for bugs in your map like holes, occlusion geo issues, stuck spots etc.
    QUOTE (Techercizer @ Feb 3 2012, 10:47 AM) »
    Every time you ask for troubleshooting without providing system info, ATI adds a rendering bug for an upcoming game.

    When you feel you need to be rude or angry about a game, just read these links and remember what role you are playing:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect
    http://www.eldergame.com/2008/06/taming-the-forum-tiger/
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise landMembers, Reinforced - Onos Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Posts: 1,543 Advanced user
    hmmmm
    maybe testing the game in an environment that is the closest possible to the actual game would provide opportunities to actually find the bugs where they are. Not meaning map bugs of course. 2 hits, one shot...

    Besides you can't honestly separate the two activities in a game development process. I mean it would look 'inefficient' for the least part.
    ChubbChubbs ???

    Reach me on NS2 forums in :
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  • WyzcrakWyzcrak Pot Pie Aficionado Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-12-04 Member: 10447Posts: 920 mod
    @UncleCrunch Perhaps your joining these teams and participating on them would better enable you to influence how they work.
    TGNS Portal | NS2 side-by-side game viewer
    IronHorse wrote: »
    TG's win or lose mod that replaces the concede function is the best of both worlds and should be official.
    soccerguy243IronHorseYojimboSoul_Rider
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