NS2 COOP
Vector19
Algeria Join Date: 2015-05-29 Member: 205013Members
Algeria Join Date: 2015-05-29 Member: 205013Members
Hi, so i have been playing a lot of NS2 recently and i have noticed that the players take this game as a competitive game, rather than a COOP.
Now NS2 has been made as a COOP game originally, so was the NS1 mod, so why are people playing like it's COD or Battlefield?
Now NS2 has been made as a COOP game originally, so was the NS1 mod, so why are people playing like it's COD or Battlefield?
Comments
Don't know where you got this "coop" idea from.
The goal of an NS2 match is to kill the enemy hive, not get x amount of points or 2 amount of kills to win.
In order to achieve that goal, the teams have to work in coordination with each other and the commander.
NS is just a mismatch of game genre's, never really fitting in, but always superior for those who acquire a taste for it.
It's an odd way of saying it, but still totally true, at least in pubs.
That being said - playing rambo is not anti-teamwork. Marines have to split up, some times rather thinly, if they want to close lanes, protect extractors and pressure harvesters simultaneously. Just because you find yourself alone, lane blocking somewhere, does not mean that you are a bad team player - on the contrary - being a good team player, requires the knowledge of where to be at any given moment. And more often that not, the spot is dictated by where ever your team mates are not.
And any time you frag a person - that is one less person who is pressuring your rts or defending their own - making it easier to progress in the rts elements of the game.
In short, I guess you can say; we play like it's "cod" because it wins games dammit!
I didn't imply it either, but never the less this is not what i am talking about.
I am talking about team competition (not between Aliens and Marines but between marines and marines)
That can be a good thing sometimes, but not always here's an example :
Marine 1 and Marine 2 get into an argument
Marine 1 has a welder and Marine 2 injured and the comm still hasn't sent in a medpack
Marine 1 does not weld Marine 2 and leads to his death, now that isn't a big deal you think but it messes with the cooperation between the team and that happens a lot of times, heck it happened to me when i was a little rookie not knowing anything about the game.
The problem is that, the game has a lot of rookies, and the pros wouldn't let them learn, they'd help with small things like how to crouch how to evolve etc, but big things like being a commander or which structer to build first, they're on their own.
Like the last time, my friend joined a game and tried to be a commander (mind you he's an execellent RTS player) when he entered the command station, they demanded that he left because he's a rookie.
How do you expect rookies not to be rookies without a bit of experience.
That is what i mean by it's turning into a competitive game rather than what's it's truely is, Cooperative deathmatch.
EDIT
The server we played on was a rookie friendly server.
From your description of teamwork failures involving welders, it sounds like someone forgot to weld and you assumed he was trying to get his buddy killed for some reason.
Let me assure you that the most competitive players in the NS2 community still weld their lesser marine friends. Some players can be dicks sometimes, but c'est la vie
As for your friend- NS2 comm is really not like any traditional RTS.
I've seen many players who were "excellent RTS players" throw their first game right out of the window because starcraft taught them to assume the first thing you need to do is drop a comm chair on every tech point.
Here's how I got into commanding:
I research the stuff (what comms can research and build, etc).
I watch some games and make note of what the commander is doing.
I get good at NS2 (to the point where I know what the commander should do)
I say over voice chat "Hey guys, since nobody is getting in the comm chair- I can command! I know to drop RTs etc but I've never commed before so please be patient and tell me if I make any huge mistakes or forget something"
I comm. I try to learn from my errors. Rinse and repeat.
For quite a while I still gave this disclaimer.
And let me make this also clear- comming is not a seperate skill from being a ground unit. Knowing how the game should flow from a 1st person perspective is THE thing that will give you a big advantage as a newbie comm. If you dont even have a grasp on that (took me 100s of hours, I'm fairly confident that someone with a green name will NOT have this knowledge) then you have very, very little chance of being a passable comm.
Whew, I didnt wanna type that much. Probably went off topic a fair bit. I'm still not entirely sure I understand OP's point but I hope I addressed it somewhat.
But yea, that's not the thing, let's say my friend is bad at Comming but wants to learn. How can he learn with people not giving him a chance to try, i mean this is a game, losing has no effect whatsoever on your life.
The community is too closed within itself (idk if that makes sense but lemme explain)
Let's say there's 400 current players who have mastered the game and still play it.
Now in the course of the game, there are bound to be some new people not knowing anything about the game and wanting to learn, how can they learn if the already existant community doesn't help them?
That is the point i am trying to get through, help people out, play this game as a cooperative deathmatch, play as a team! If the community hangs around like that, it's surely going to die. Just look at the steam reviews, they all say that this game is perfect but the community ruin it.
I, and I assume others, try to help with the small things and more. It all depends on how tired, patient, and willing we are that specific day. I have played matches where a rookie started following me around, and I told him everything I was doing and why. Most of the team was rookies, so maybe they absorb some of the information. Sometimes I just want to play ns2, and I try to avoid rookies. I don't want to deal with them.
The problem is, that there are so few people in ns2 that even the top (not me), get mixed in with rookies in the same servers. Saddly this has taken all meaning from "rookie friendly" servers.
I can see both sides with your friend commanding. On my regular server, we often give rookies a chance at commanding but only if they are communicative and responsive to our help. Othertimes, we just don't want to deal with a rookie commander. A rookie commander can ruin a game for both sides.
Most players would recommend you get experienced with everything else but commanding, before you command.
As far as I have experienced, the community is very helpful with sharing knowledge about the game. The people that are still here are here because they love it, and people love to talk about things they love!
The cinch here is that you kinda have to ask. Talk to people! Make friends! I'd be very surprised if anyone asked for help in one of the more popular public servers and didn't receive any.
Steam reviews talking about a bad community baffle me; this game has forever been coasting off of its community. This game has given me almost 3k hours of awesome just because of the community. The closest competitor in terms of playtime for me was CS:S, and that was also purely because of our close-knit 48 man zombiemod server having such a great community.
Like this guy, i wanted to become a comm (i have practiced enough not to be called a rookie on Comm ) and he just was calling me a dumbass noob and telling me to get out of the server and play with bots.
Mind you i this was a few seconds after i stepped into the Com center.
I just want people like him to be helpful and patient with us "Noobs" and give us a chance to try.
Btw the server (ns2-fr.com) you played on is certainly known for being not "rookie friendly"!
Overall the rookie friendly system is not working anymore as intended and will be replaced by the new "rookie only" server system with one of the next patches:
I know it's said ways to often in the gaming industry but CDT patches get released "when they are done".
The CDT is a team of volunteers with very limited amount of time due to our real jobs etc. . So we take more time to develop features than a professional team.
You can follow our process via our trello board: https://trello.com/b/91ApENY6/ns2-cdt-development-tracker
A good indicator if 276 is ready to be shipped is probably this ticket (features are done once the reach the confirmed fixed list) as it's kinda the last "milestone feature" planned for 267.
I can't carry a fight without welded teammates, even if they're bad. Being full armor is more than half the battle in any fight
While I've never played in ns2-fr I have played in most others and could recommend you a handful of friendly ones if you'd like.
As with any game that uses community servers, if aren't having a good time in one, try another.
Never said this was the only time a man did it to me or someone else, it has happened numerous of times which i haven't screencapped sadly, but yes i would to get some rookie friendly servers!
French or British servers please, because they're the ones where my ping isn't high!
Keep it up, you always have our support
The thing is:
You can find people helping, just ask. They may not help you right on the spot but maybe help you later (scheduled). It's better and more efficient.
For learning to comm, when I started I waited till I had pretty good understanding of the flow of the game and what's expected of commander, then waited for matches where nobody was hopping in. This way ppl can't justify their complaints as much. Anyways lunch is over so sorry if this is incomplete thought here.
Look at it from their point of view: they have hundreds or even thousands of hours of experience, they are playing for a few hours a day and want to enjoy the game after a hard day's work. They are devoted players, and have taken the time and made the effort to learn the game well. 99% or more of the others who bought the game have already left, long ago.
Now if you just jump in to the commchair, and with just 75hours of experience, they fear you will start making loads of nooby or rookie mistakes, and that is going to be very frustrating for the rest of them.
NS2 isn't Starcraft. You don't become comm to start ordering around some AI-players. Unlike other RTS games, you can actually learn how to be commander by playing as a field-player and then observing what the experienced commanders do at various times, in various situations, on various maps.
Only then, once you have closer to 200 hours, should you venture forth, explain to the others that you haven't commanded much before, that you would like to, and ask people to please be patient and to give you guidance on what to do.
This permission requesting method was the approach I used, but of course I got into the commchair within just a few hours of playing, because back in 2012 there were TONS of rookies around, tons of rookie servers, and it was the best time to get in to the game
If you can't wait for 200 hours, then just ask people BEFORE jumping in: explain you have 75 hours only, but really want to learn to command, and please could people be patient and give you guidance.
#1 be communicative. If you're new, you're in the chair, and you don't respond to voicecomm or team chat, you get the boot. No communication = you're ruining the game for the 6-9 other players on your team, don't be a douchebag.
#2 listen and be receptive to advice.
There's really very few people who won't tolerate a rookie comm who can do both of those.
Yet for some reason people don't do either of them then rage when they get ejected and call the community toxic.