What makes this game so raging!?

NS-SoldierNS-Soldier Join Date: 2013-01-16 Member: 179856Members
edited July 2015 in NS2 General Discussion
There is always this poop head at the end of the round in ready room talking poop about being stacked.
Why does this game make people mad when they lose?
Is there a better solution to feel good about losing?
on the screen it should be showing "Marines won by heart" or "Alien humping main hive" or "Marine loses to big elephants" or "Alien got owned by Sigourney Weaver"
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Comments

  • BabblerKingBabblerKing Join Date: 2015-07-12 Member: 206120Members
    NS-Soldier wrote: »
    There is always this poop head at the end of the round in ready room talking poop about being stacked.
    Why does this game make people mad when they lose?
    Is there a better solution to feel good about losing?
    on the screen it should be showing "Marines won by heart" or "Alien humping main hive" or "Marine loses to big elephants" or "Alien got owned by Sigourney Weaver"
    I recall you making this suggestion bout a year ago and it fell on deaf ears. Stacking is also not being addressed intentionally.

    It's not about improving things when the ulterior motives go into another direction.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Cause they lack an inner Kouji
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    I have more, but the main thing that frustrates me now is in gathers and the no rookies pub when people don't respond to their mame being called explicitly for a call.

    Just lost a fade last night because a skulk didnt engage with me after I called him out by name. I like trusting people when I play because it's rewarding, so when you get fucked for it, it makes me rage atleast a wee biy
  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    Yes, also frustration occurs when it's your match to win, and you give it away. I don't play to lose. I play to have fun and WIN :D
  • NominousNominous Baltimore, MD Join Date: 2012-02-18 Member: 146518Members
    Losing by a large margin vs a stacked team is never a good feeling. However, people still yell "stack!!" even if it's just one skilled player tipping the balance for his team. I think the latter is just a way for players to vent their frustration, whether it's due to poor team coordination, lack of personal skill, a large skill gap imposed by the balance-tipper, losing to an all-in rush, etc. Besides these possibilities, I think the game's atmosphere plays a large part too. NS2 is quite compelling since aliens and marines are at each other's throats, fighting for survival and asserting their dominance over each other. I haven't played many online games besides NS1 where two sides are pitted against each other in such a raw, kill or be killed, no-diplomacy manner. Neither side is necessarily good or bad, it's just natural selection at work (such a fitting title for this game). Taking all of this into account, ofc losing can cause disappointment and frustration. There's nothing to look forward to (e.g. unlocks, some other sort of progression besides a meaningless level #) besides winning. I don't think a cute, hand-holding victory/defeat message will work since it would break the atmosphere of a normally serious game. Perhaps someone could make a mod for it, though.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    This is something I've been harping on a bit lately internally and publicly. (So has @moultano with his "Marines need more comebacks" thread)
    I think that there are just too many compounding advantages that occur in NS2, that are difficult to undo / overcome as a losing team, often resulting in frustrating concedes and blaming..

    "Well if you had balanced teams.." You say?

    That's all well and good but after this many years I don't think there is an adequate method to properly balance every round (besides the fact that not every pub or player enjoys being forced to a specific team, either) and even if you did manage perfectly balanced teams (think captains games) it still doesn't mean those symptoms won't occur!

    So really the way I see it: I feel like such a steep requirement of "perfectly balanced teams" (that doesn't always work) in order to have an enjoyable round that feels fair, is simply poor design.
    Which is why I've been eyeballing tech progression and snowballing / comeback difficulty lately in discussions.

    There's ideas, but some are difficult to communicate while others are just such fundamental changes to the way NS2 works, they may be met with confusion or worse - contempt.
    At the risk of sounding like a broken record: I always come back to the fact that an NS2 round is rarely enjoyable and engaging until the very last second when a victor is declared.
    That seems silly and addressable to me..

  • IronsoulIronsoul Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members
    @IronHorse I remember having a conversation with you back in 2011 when either I joined an American server or you joined an Australian server. I wish I wrote it down, I remember mentioning some ideas relevant to this topic. AARRGG blast my lack of foresight.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Maps are the best way to have a stacked team balanced, put them on the more difficult side. Obviously this works the other way.. But so long as cysting is utilized as it is map creators will feel the pain of dota shaped maps like derelict being what's asked for
  • gungorgegungorge US Join Date: 2014-08-31 Member: 198194Members
    I make a point of complaining about stacked teams. Even if the one doing the stacking was me. If it was unintentional (i.e. everyone joined their favorite team and it just ended up stacked) I try to be polite about it. However if the game was so bad it can't be discussed in polite terms I Will Annoy You Afterwards.

    IMO the only way to maintain a healthy community (and fun games) is to speak up. Just because someone is better than you doesn't mean he's allowed to ruin a server for everybody else. Unless he or she is a gorge. :wink:
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    This has been debated before, a few knock backs and team morale drops and one persons negativity drags that down further. Then you get the odd person who leads a charge and changes the game round, a sneaky tunnel or phase gate can make all the difference.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    What rages me is when people don't communicate properly or rambo without thinking about the consequences, nothing like gathering your team to rush a hive and you have that one guy axing a cyst on the other side of the map :/
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    The classics where a commander has a plan and there's always a wize-ass field com questioning everything the commander is doing.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    The classics where a commander has a plan and there's always a wize-ass field com questioning everything the commander is doing.

    Haha I admit I am guilty of doing this sometimes, what aggros me though is its genuinely innocent advice but somehow they automatically know it all from their 10 minutes of commanding, clearly I know jackshit for playing the series for almost 12 years lol.
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    What rages me is when people don't communicate properly or rambo without thinking about the consequences, nothing like gathering your team to rush a hive and you have that one guy axing a cyst on the other side of the map :/

    uh, well depending on where the cyst is, that doesn't seem like a bad idea. If all the aliens are occupied at the hive, you can do lots of damage on the rts - if some of the aliens are responding to you hacking an rt, the hive push is that much stronger. Also, you can laneblock a counter-baserush.
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    What rages me is when people don't communicate properly or rambo without thinking about the consequences, nothing like gathering your team to rush a hive and you have that one guy axing a cyst on the other side of the map :/

    uh, well depending on where the cyst is, that doesn't seem like a bad idea. If all the aliens are occupied at the hive, you can do lots of damage on the rts - if some of the aliens are responding to you hacking an rt, the hive push is that much stronger. Also, you can laneblock a counter-baserush.

    Or that moment when the hive is at 5% and your team manages to get wiped out, if only, IF ONLY that one marine was there to make the difference and finish the hive off but is busy hacking that cyst. Yeah I can see your point lol
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    The classics where a commander has a plan and there's always a wize-ass field com questioning everything the commander is doing.

    Some of us feel that a 10 man gorge rush may not be the most tactically astute approach. :p
  • _INTER__INTER_ Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    When victory is 99% certain for the other side 10 mins in or less, concede fails because 1 vote is missing, the situation drags on and on. Enemy team starts to "play around" because their chances to loose is slim and they could try and get the full tech for a change. 20 minutes later you loose like expected. Even if you'd win at that point by a rush, its not that kind of victory you're happy with.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2015
    So, the thing that I hate about stacks is when people who know better intentionally stack, even though they know it's going to lead to a one-sided stompfest. When all 4+ of the 2k+ hive skill players on the server go on one team at the beginning of the round you know that it's going to be 5-10 minutes of worthless gameplay, and often it kills the server.

    These people know better, yet almost none of them are willing to even the teams up. I've seen a few handful of times when a good player willingly switches teams to even up the balance.
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    Hmm... maybe being able to call for a "Keep Uneven Teams" (KUT) vote if skills are too uneven?

    Like a reversed FET vote - the FET is done if the vote _fails_. So rookies/afks automatically vote the right way.
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    Ah how I miss you @Daveodeth :*

    I miss the Modestmouse commanding style, not afraid to go early arcs. People get too set on the routines. Turrets all the way... muhahahaha!
  • _INTER__INTER_ Join Date: 2009-08-08 Member: 68392Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    MuckyMcFly wrote: »
    Ah how I miss you @Daveodeth :*

    I miss the Modestmouse commanding style, not afraid to go early arcs. People get too set on the routines. Turrets all the way... muhahahaha!
    And he made it work somehow (ok, it included lots of yelling and specific individual commands over mic). Ahh the times.
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members
    matso wrote: »
    Hmm... maybe being able to call for a "Keep Uneven Teams" (KUT) vote if skills are too uneven?

    Like a reversed FET vote - the FET is done if the vote _fails_. So rookies/afks automatically vote the right way.

    If its not too much trouble, I think it's worth a try. It doesn't prevent people from stacking by going F4 and J1/J2, but I think those people are in the minority anyway.

  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited July 2015
    matso wrote: »
    Hmm... maybe being able to call for a "Keep Uneven Teams" (KUT) vote if skills are too uneven?

    Like a reversed FET vote - the FET is done if the vote _fails_. So rookies/afks automatically vote the right way.

    That acronym for "Keep Uneven Teams" doesn't work very well in Dutch @matso :D
  • MuckyMcFlyMuckyMcFly Join Date: 2012-03-19 Member: 148982Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    And I laughed so hard......
  • DaphistoDaphisto Hive Janitor Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8917Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    1) Stacked teams. Possible solution: a mod that increases the res flow of the team that is stacked against.
    2) Often, it is difficult to get someone to go commander resulting in a lot of down-time in between games, causing people to stop playing.
    3) Marines have no come-back abilities like the aliens do, resulting in marine players needing to concede or be forced to wait ~6-8 minutes until their eventual demise.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited July 2015
    What pisses me off is people who attempt to concede with 2 hives and when they fail, they spend the next 20 minutes slacking to turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    That is arguably my most hated outcome for an NS2 match.
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    And they do that right before Fades appear...most of the time they just take their 50 res and leave the server. That is not helpful.

    One thing that always disturbed me is that aliens lost the ability to shoot back. Ns1 was about fighting and using fun tactics, ns2 is about avoiding grouped up marines and strike where they are not, because they totally have the ranged advantage. With the lack of fun, different tactics, fun maps, a map rotation with different mods, etc....ns2 has a lot more stress potential than ns1 had. Combine that with always the same three maps and stacked teams and you know where the rage comes from. It is building up and there is no way to relax. Sometimes the pregame mod is played longer than the actual round. People just need some fun stuff to relax. And ns2 need more players (surprise). Right now the atmosphere on some of my favorite servers changed from awesome to toxicity, because people are forced to play together that don't really fit together (my #1 reason for ignoring ns2 for 3 months now).
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    People just need some fun stuff to relax.

    <3 That NS1 only option
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