Smurfing

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Comments

  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    You should get kicked for not having enough hive hours on the capns server though. Don't think I've seen successful smurfs there, pretty much everybody knows everybody, if you change your game name, someone will probably recognize your steam name. Plus the rookie filter.
  • G_of_the_JG_of_the_J Join Date: 2013-08-12 Member: 186764Members
    Thats what you get by having public skill. Smurrfs

    It's so sad that many smurfs say that they can't try different strats or just gorge. Who is stopping you? Yes u might lose sometimes, but sowhat? Its only game. Everyone that knows you, knows your skill. So its more like getting that score up. Otherwise there's no problem to try different stuff. Thats how i see it.

    All i do is gorging, cos i suck so much otherwise. So dont blame gorges!!! Gorges are great source of skill.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    G_of_the_J wrote: »
    Thats what you get by having public skill. Smurrfs

    It's so sad that many smurfs say that they can't try different strats or just gorge. Who is stopping you? Yes u might lose sometimes, but sowhat? Its only game. Everyone that knows you, knows your skill. So its more like getting that score up. Otherwise there's no problem to try different stuff. Thats how i see it.

    All i do is gorging, cos i suck so much otherwise. So dont blame gorges!!! Gorges are great source of skill.

    Not really about winning vs losing, more about having an enjoyable game vs getting absolutely stomped because the balance algorithm was counting on you not handicapping yourself.
  • OscarTheCouchOscarTheCouch Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34647Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Greed, exploit, cheat, smurf, selfish. All can be gouped togeter.
    Therius wrote: »
    High hive skill = knowing what team to stack...ftw

    This is not true, as the skill system does not work that way. This has been discussed at length in multiple threads about the skill system. Please, do not lash out at the system without doing some research first.

    Wait so your score doesnt go up when you win?
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2015
    Wait so your score doesnt go up when you win?

    Number 1 answers your question directly. I thought the rest might be useful given the context this thread has now.
    1. If one team smashes another, but the teams were stacked to make that outcome almost certain, nobody’s skill level changes at the end of the round. Only unexpected victories change skill levels.
    2. Nothing you do during the round other than winning the game has any effect on your skill level. This means that there’s no incentive to rack up kills at the end of the game rather than finishing it, or to play skulk instead of gorge, or to go offense rather than build.
    3. The effect on your score is determined by the time you spent playing the round rather than your points, with the beginning of the game weighted much higher than the end. This means that it doesn’t harm you to join a game that is already lost, because you’ll have played for a very small fraction of the weighted time spent in the game.
    4. If the two teams have a different number of players, this is compensated for automatically by normalizing by the total time across both teams rather than just within a team, and the model predicts that the team with more players will win.
    5. Larger games contribute less to each player’s skill level because the presumption is that each player has a smaller effect on the outcome of the game.
    6. If you are a highly skilled player on a low-skill server, the best thing you can do for your skill ranking is to join the underdog team, and lead them to victory.

    If anyone is interested in reading more:
    https://moultano.wordpress.com/2014/08/04/a-skill-ranking-system-for-natural-selection-2/
  • LamboLambo Iceland Join Date: 2012-08-07 Member: 154915Members, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    G_of_the_J wrote: »
    Thats what you get by having public skill. Smurrfs

    It's so sad that many smurfs say that they can't try different strats or just gorge. Who is stopping you? Yes u might lose sometimes, but sowhat? Its only game. Everyone that knows you, knows your skill. So its more like getting that score up. Otherwise there's no problem to try different stuff. Thats how i see it.

    All i do is gorging, cos i suck so much otherwise. So dont blame gorges!!! Gorges are great source of skill.
    the amount of cancer.

    "Everyone that knows you, knows your skill", exactly. The highlight of how bad it's been lately is kicked on sight cause of joining with your regular name. Personally, I don't care about win/loss, I don't care about hive stats/skill, I'm playing public to play, have fun & maybe attemting to train something specific. Ban expiry & waiting on certain vocal players to leave said servers is the deciding factor if I can play or not. I'm not saying it's like that for everyone, I'm basing this off my experience and those I know.

    Most of you are looking at this so wrong, it's painful.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Not really about winning vs losing, more about having an enjoyable game vs getting absolutely stomped because the balance algorithm was counting on you not handicapping yourself.

    I'm quoting you but i'm not answering to you personally. So, to all:

    Absolutely nothing prevents any player to be gorge on any game.

    Case 1 : If you know FET assigned you in the weak team, nothing prevent you to go Gorge. Of course you will eventually loose the game. So what? Boohoohoo you will loose hive points. Well... Yes and maybe if you lower your score enough FET would eventually stop "segregating" you. Which tends to support the theory that FET can only function with a small scale (1000&1500 and not 0&3000) which defeat the purpose of it.

    Case 2 : Nothing prevents you to switch team (to join the stronger) and play gorge. This will most probably give you the space/time to do what you wan to try. Eventually you will win the game and therefore you will not loose points.

    So the problem isn't if you can or not. I think it's somethings else. Sad to say it's a kind of dick size related issue.

    The gorge (aggressive vs defensive posture) problem as already been discussed in the corresponding thread ( here). It's funny to see that many things predicted in this thread happens (smurfing or delude FET, not enough game to converge etc).


  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited July 2015
    the people saying "just go gorge" have the reasoning why I don't go right over there heads, even though I tried making it as clear as possible.
    please note that it's not the fact that I lose that bothers me, more so that it's not going to be a good game

    fuck me for not only wanting to play a decent game myself, but for not wanting to waste a minimum of 10 minutes (for concede) for 20+ other people who very likely do not have the same amount of disposable time as I do.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    You answered to @OscarTheCouch that the hive skill was "pretty accurate". It's safe to think that you trust HiveSkill so you don't have any problems using FET.

    You said on the same day that you want to use a second account to be able to play commander or whatever it is you want to do. Maybe you are using one already. I'm starting to question your Hive faith.

    If FET/Hive was so damn pretty good at making teams why do you need a second account in the first place ?
    Answer : "because I'm getting stuck in something i have to play or i will have to loose the game" to summarize. Bad game -> bad day, etc.

    So basically you say it's pretty good but you suffer from an effect which basically stacks rookie and a few really good players. Therefore you can't play whatever you want (See the corresponding thread).

    Then if you are using a smurf account you are deliberately making several things.
    • Every game you play as account N°2 will be stored in Hive skill as another player. If you win with this account while you are supposed to loose, you make every other opponent who play with their main account loose point, and you get; you and your team (this one is important); a clear boost in the process. So the accuracy of Hive datas is ruined.
    • Every time you get back with your first account, it's like nothing has changed. Hive doesn't know you played with account N°2. So much for accuracy right ?
    • Once the account N°2 is high enough you're supposed to change for N°3, etc. Assuming the hive system get to the accurate value fast enough. Each new account starting at 0 is another problem that FET can't solve. Nobody is a total 0 (hydrocephalus), so what value would be right ? FET doesn't know, so it's acts with what he has.
    • It proves Hive can be tricked any time, using more than 1 method, with one or more player... see bullet N°1

    In other words smurfing is tricking the Hive System. Whatever the reason, i don't really care. But saying that Hive/FET is "quite accurate and does the job" while deliberately tricking the system at the same time is illogical not to say madness (or worse).



    Funny, lately i see weird things at every game. I have a gut feeling it's probably smurfers in packs. I named it the "turn upside down sequence". They probably stack incognito in one team, they let you get the entire map at first, then they suddenly become godlike NS2 players iterations (or your team becomes strangely stupid all of a sudden), and win it all... against all odds.

    It's at every game lately. What ? Do they want to kill The Hive System ? I was thinking it was a religion. Hmm Funny... What are the odds ?
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    i'm really starting to feel the need to use my other account in order to be able to command and have decent games. this is how it usually happens... map loads, everybody is in the ready room. people initiate a shuffle no matter how poorly setup the previous games with it were, and (correct me if i'm wrong here) I am now being stacked against heavily because I have a 3k+ skill rating. you can not command or play something like gorge with that.

    whoever said it earlier is right, at the moment the system is setup so you either carry the team or lose horribly if you have a high rating. please note that it's not the fact that I lose that bothers me, more so that it's not going to be a good game if I want to do something besides skulk into fade or play in specific servers that are only populated at specific times.

    shut up, your damn gorge is good enough to carry.

    my gorge would never get the chance to victory taunt in the ready room on the other hand.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Wheeee wrote: »
    @BeigeAlert that won't work, because nothing prevents a high-level player from gorging for a while then switching. Or, never going gorge in the first place (I think you'd agree that forcing someone into a lifeform is a bad thing).

    gorging out the gate is a pretty big handicap. delays your lerk to fade timing and your fade much later.

    if they drop a tunnel, it's even later
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited July 2015
    I said the hive skill is good at putting people into tiers, then I specifically said that I do not think FET is good in this game with its current implementation as it's too basic for such a complex asymmetric game.

    I think you're a bit (a lot) paranoid if you think people are smurfing in packs even remotely regularly, let alone "at every game".
    amoral wrote: »
    shut up, your damn gorge is good enough to carry.
    sure, I could probably go 15-0 as gorge in the average public server with a ton of assists, or I can do what I did just the other day that sparked my posts in this thread and go 90-1 as fade and still barely win that game because of shuffle.. (if I went gorge or comm, what do you think our chances would have been? think it would have even been a close game? this is the my regular shuffle experience)
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    I said the hive skill is good at putting people into tiers, then I specifically said that I do not think FET is good in this game with its current implementation as it's too basic for such a complex asymmetric game.

    I think you're a bit (a lot) paranoid if you think people are smurfing in packs even remotely regularly, let alone "at every game".
    amoral wrote: »
    shut up, your damn gorge is good enough to carry.
    sure, I could probably go 15-0 as gorge in the average public server with a ton of assists, or I can do what I did just the other day that sparked my posts in this thread and go 90-1 as fade and still barely win that game because of shuffle.. (if I went gorge or comm, what do you think our chances would have been? think it would have even been a close game? this is the my regular shuffle experience)

    i'm actually really surprised that you won if you had to carry that hard...
  • turtsmcgurtturtsmcgurt Join Date: 2012-11-01 Member: 165456Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited July 2015
    Wheeee wrote: »
    I said the hive skill is good at putting people into tiers, then I specifically said that I do not think FET is good in this game with its current implementation as it's too basic for such a complex asymmetric game.

    I think you're a bit (a lot) paranoid if you think people are smurfing in packs even remotely regularly, let alone "at every game".
    amoral wrote: »
    shut up, your damn gorge is good enough to carry.
    sure, I could probably go 15-0 as gorge in the average public server with a ton of assists, or I can do what I did just the other day that sparked my posts in this thread and go 90-1 as fade and still barely win that game because of shuffle.. (if I went gorge or comm, what do you think our chances would have been? think it would have even been a close game? this is the my regular shuffle experience)

    i'm actually really surprised that you won if you had to carry that hard...

    it was only because I organized a lame base rush, we were in the process of losing our hives.
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    I would say if you are going 90-1 as fade then you're on the wrong server.
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Daveodeth wrote: »
    I would say if you are going 90-1 as fade then you're on the wrong server.

    I would say this is equivalent to telling him he's not allowed to play the game anymore
  • DaveodethDaveodeth Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Members
    Or that the player Base is so small now shitty games are pretty much what you're going to get at that level. Might not be fair, just is.
  • BlrgBlrg Join Date: 2013-09-01 Member: 187580Members, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Shadow
    Most of the problems described in this thread would be solved (or at least lessened) if people would start populating veterans-only servers. I usually see 1-2 pros and 3-4 veterans at every single server, surrounded by rookies. Grab all those decent players, put them in the same server and the result is probably better for everyone.

    It is not the same to carry a team of players with 5% accuracy and 0 knowledge of the game, than to play with people that (even though they are not as good as you) communicate and know the basics

    There is enough players to do this, they are just scattered around all the servers
  • FrozenFrozen New York, NY Join Date: 2010-07-02 Member: 72228Members, Constellation
    Blrg wrote: »
    Most of the problems described in this thread would be solved (or at least lessened) if people would start populating veterans-only servers. I usually see 1-2 pros and 3-4 veterans at every single server, surrounded by rookies. Grab all those decent players, put them in the same server and the result is probably better for everyone.

    It is not the same to carry a team of players with 5% accuracy and 0 knowledge of the game, than to play with people that (even though they are not as good as you) communicate and know the basics

    There is enough players to do this, they are just scattered around all the servers

    Disagree as there really isn't enough.
  • UncleCrunchUncleCrunch Mayonnaise land Join Date: 2005-02-16 Member: 41365Members, Reinforced - Onos
    Blrg wrote: »
    Most of the problems described in this thread would be solved (or at least lessened) if people would start populating veterans-only servers. I usually see 1-2 pros and 3-4 veterans at every single server, surrounded by rookies. Grab all those decent players, put them in the same server and the result is probably better for everyone.

    It is not the same to carry a team of players with 5% accuracy and 0 knowledge of the game, than to play with people that (even though they are not as good as you) communicate and know the basics

    There is enough players to do this, they are just scattered around all the servers

    Though i can understand your POV, I don't think it will help. IMO It will get in a process where the 2 groups get more and more distant. Eventually the 2 groups will never be able to play together a game where it's not a "stomp".
    • The vets will stay strong. They will get more an more bored as they know the game like the back of their hands, and will surrender fast. Vets finally quit (-> surrender rant and such).
    • The rookies won't learn fast or get close to the Vet' level. Only a few will progress and finally get bored as you can't ask much of rookies. Those who progress get stuck with rookies. But they won't be able to go with the vets either.
    Worse when the rookie will see the vets play (in some mixed game) they will think they won't get close to that level. It can lead to hackusation, demoralized players (quit), bad reputation for the game, etc.


    I believe in mixed player level games. But one condition has to be fulfilled.

    It's the missing link in that kind of game. Taking care of the rookies enough time to make sure they won't get stomp without understanding why. Right now, people aren't going through the process of learning the game. They want to play. They connect right away thinking it's another shooter. They can't get a single thing their teammates tell him to do. They just quit after that episode. More because everybody is yelling at him than the game itself (after all, walking in the ceiling is fun).

    They have at disposal:
    • Video tutorials but it's never enough. It doesn't feel the same like in the game.
    • The tutorial is good but not a condition before joining a server and could/should go a little deeper.
    • The sandbox is cool but it's more for the players who want to test or see what changed when a new build is out.

    I wished for:
    • it's locked : No tutorial, no game ! What is what and how to move (wall jump etc). The tutorial isn't that long, and it's better than a total rookie wandering in the map with no clue.
    • A real classroom making system. instead of match making system. So we could organize some classroom / training session. With willing people of course. It's more interactive and people can ask questions. Also the vets could explain why it is so important to be aware and know the basics and communication, etc. With some visibility maybe it could have changed things. So far anything that was tried was more like "cheats on" and play a fake game.
    But i guess the next build won't include this as it's not in the pipe.

    If it's all about "community". Maybe it should be something to work on as a community (even if you all think I'm vomiting on everything, it's for the greater good).
  • FarewelltoarmsFarewelltoarms gainesville fl Join Date: 2013-03-03 Member: 183603Members
    Blrg wrote: »

    There is enough players to do this, they are just scattered around all the servers

    There must be a lot of Europeans posting in this topic because there are only two American servers that are ever populated: IBIS and DMD. TA and MCG were popular for a while, but it seems their playerbase has faded.


  • 2cough2cough Rocky Mountain High Join Date: 2013-03-14 Member: 183952Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    edited July 2015
    There must be a lot of Europeans posting in this topic because there are only two American servers that are ever populated: IBIS and DMD. TA and MCG were popular for a while, but it seems their playerbase has faded.

    Same players are around, just playing elsewhere. When mcg started their high pop sever, was popular for like a week, took all the regulars from their lounge 1 and 2 severs. Then I think the novelty of playing those games wore off and people looked for normal games again. TA is populated here and there. Either way, I still see the same people around different servers.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2015
    Blrg wrote: »

    There is enough players to do this, they are just scattered around all the servers

    There must be a lot of Europeans posting in this topic because there are only two American servers that are ever populated: IBIS and DMD. TA and MCG were popular for a while, but it seems their playerbase has faded.
    NA player speaking. There are more servers than that. I don't play on either IBIS or DMD if I don't need to. I usually have other options.
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