Marines jumping just as high, if not higher than Skulks.

24

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  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    sotanaht wrote: »
    I do think there is some room for improvement on the marines jumping animations. My main complaint is that it looks like the marine just picks his feet up and floats halfway across the room backwards while facing you. Even if marines could jump like Mario, it would still look more "realistic" than what we have going on now.

    Bionic leg implants brah

  • LuchsLuchs Switzerland Join Date: 2014-07-23 Member: 197569Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yojimbo wrote: »
    Bionic leg implants brah

    I was hit by a moment of nostalgia. Anyone around here remembering this gem?
    syn3.png
  • Cannon_FodderAUSCannon_FodderAUS Brisbane, AU Join Date: 2013-06-23 Member: 185664Members, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    @Luchs played syndicate to death. I still remember the tag line from my PC mag, better than sex.
  • AnkleBitingKittyAnkleBitingKitty United States Join Date: 2014-01-19 Member: 193284Members
    Pro tip - don't be an Ankle biting skulk. Look up and aim for the chest. If you aim at the rinse foot he might jump and make you miss entirely
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    strafe back-jump ftw
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    So I brought this up internally and it seems to be something that is a righteous pain in the butt to change, visually.
    You'd have to manually adjust every animation for every weapon, for every model.
    This is why if you look closely at the jump animations in the viewer you can spot inconsistencies in between the jump poses based on what weapon is in their hand.

    The height is definitely ridiculous and isn't really needed, visually. (since you wouldn't want to change the actual collision height when jumping for railings etc)
    So while I obviously agree with Soylent (seeing as how i've brought this up in the past before) I'll still look into an alternative solution, but again this isn't anything easy to solve unfortunately.
  • zeepzeep Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3367Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    So I brought this up internally and it seems to be something that is a righteous pain in the butt to change, visually.
    You'd have to manually adjust every animation for every weapon, for every model.
    This is why if you look closely at the jump animations in the viewer you can spot inconsistencies in between the jump poses based on what weapon is in their hand.

    The height is definitely ridiculous and isn't really needed, visually. (since you wouldn't want to change the actual collision height when jumping for railings etc)
    So while I obviously agree with Soylent (seeing as how i've brought this up in the past before) I'll still look into an alternative solution, but again this isn't anything easy to solve unfortunately.
    Great that you brought it up internally.
    I understand it's not easy to change but i hope there will be a solution someday not too far in the future.
  • roxxkattroxxkatt Join Date: 2014-12-28 Member: 200431Members
    Another very important feature, which is now finally being worked on, is conveying at a glance to the player how much health and energy they have left instead of having a little meter that cannot be read without directly looking at it.

    the alien vision card on the trello that you are talking about recently went missing into the archive section
    ...unless you are talking about ironhorses bigger hud
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    roxxkatt wrote: »
    Another very important feature, which is now finally being worked on, is conveying at a glance to the player how much health and energy they have left instead of having a little meter that cannot be read without directly looking at it.

    the alien vision card on the trello that you are talking about recently went missing into the archive section
    ...unless you are talking about ironhorses bigger hud
    That's the NS1-style HUD option in NS2+, which has been available for a while, by the way.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited January 2015
    Yup, he's talking about the NS1 HUD Bars.
    I brought up the idea 6 months ago with a crappy mockup, and then Rantology made a sexy version of it and Mendasp put it into NS2+
    Now all that's needed is for it to be approved/official :)

    Highly recommend you use it on any NS2+ servers and give feedback afterwards (I think the position of the bars need to be raised in height slightly)
  • roxxkattroxxkatt Join Date: 2014-12-28 Member: 200431Members
    edited January 2015
    @ironhorse if you have not been aware yet, part of the trello card https://trello.com/c/dLsN38ZK/719-add-more-parameters-to-the-alien-vision-shader-to-allow-for-more-modability is using the alien vision shader to double as a hud

    the shader is active all the time regardless of the alien vision state, meaning the new information passed can be used to make the environment different colors or shapes as the alien gets more damaged, and more

    this means the entire screen can be a hud


    heres an example of one possibility:
    roxxkatt wrote: »
    13CCD147A678616C1429A2D7849C4FB15C0F4AF7
    B8E1608F49AB5B5C4F9D5F09A52FADFB0329C6CD



    the code is 100% finished with no performance loss and i dont know what it means when the item gets moved from "needs approval" to the archive




    ....and looking again i think you knew about this already =p
  • TurbineTurbine Join Date: 2012-09-13 Member: 159160Members
    I took a pic awhile back of a Marine crouch jumping at around shoulder level. On Earth's gravity 30cm is as high as most can jump when measuring, it feels a lot higher, but it's true.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    @roxxkatt‌
    Yea I knew about your request.
    The explanation of why it was archived when I asked an engine developer :

    Basically your method does have a performance loss that we are unwilling to accept.

    Each time
    shader:SetParameter()
    
    is called, it forces a Lua->C->Lua instruction sequence. So, generally you would *not* want to be doing that every frame...PLUS...each one of those calls is going to have to do callbacks back into all the associated Lua (and possibly C code) in order to get the data for those 'SetParameter' calls. And to top that off... *all* of the changes are ran in the Alien:UpdateClientEffects() call....which is run every frame. So, the performance impact would scale upwards, and a player's system specs scales down.
    It incurs a cost regardless of what a player's graphics settings are at. So, it'd be a badly designed performance hit and forced upon all players. Not a good scenario.
  • roxxkattroxxkatt Join Date: 2014-12-28 Member: 200431Members
    edited January 2015
    @IronHorse‌ wouldnt the alien hud be making those exact same function calls every frame?

    i did make a mod with the proposed changes, and ran them on the highest graphics settings, and did not experience any fps drop at all.
    has this been tested?


    also, it would be TRIVIAL to add a if(framecount++ < 10) {dothings(); framecount=0 } if people were concerned about performance
  • AconitAconit Join Date: 2013-06-07 Member: 185502Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited January 2015
    "MARINES JUMPING JUST AS HIGH, IF NOT HIGHER THAN SKULKS"

    Really easy thing to do....look at this TSF marine training between two rounds !
  • gzhegowgzhegow Belarus, Brest Join Date: 2015-01-13 Member: 200820Members
    edited January 2015
    I confirm this change.
    Try to jump in real life over the Dog, and jump again-again-and-again at some height!

    Skulk with our LENGTH cannot bite jumped marine. (Try to attack Extractor from max-distance to get length value). So jump height is more than 1.5 meters?
  • roxxkattroxxkatt Join Date: 2014-12-28 Member: 200431Members
    edited January 2015
    it sounds like they wont make this change because the hitbox will remain the same, and only the leg animation needs to be changed, and changing that will somehow mess up the weapons animations as well, making it far too much work for them
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    gzhegow wrote: »
    I confirm this change.
    Try to jump in real life over the Dog, and jump again-again-and-again at some height!

    Skulk with our LENGTH cannot bite jumped marine. (Try to attack Extractor from max-distance to get length value). So jump height is more than 1.5 meters?

    Dude skulks are like the size of a little terrier dog or a cat. I could jump over them repeatedly no problem. If you think a small dog could bite you at the apex of your jump, without jumping, I would imagine you have a poor judge of what kind of athletic ability even the most average human is capable of, let alone people specially trained for such a thing ;)

    Also I dunno where you got the 1.5 meter bite range from, it's nothing like that.
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    I've made some tweaks to ways marine jump.

    Code here: http://pastebin.com/FQL1b04u

    Mod on Steam Workshop : http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=391124609

    Marines now have zero gravity for a shot time (0.1 second) after each jump, so they can jump up with less force, but achieve the same speed.
    (This simulates real life jumping physics, where legs exert force over a fraction of a second, until the feet left the ground, rather than being an instantaneous process.)
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    But are the feet still tucked in? And does this effect marines jumping onto crates and railings?
  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited February 2015
    IronHorse wrote: »
    But are the feet still tucked in? And does this effect marines jumping onto crates and railings?
    Yes the feet animations don't change. Marines can still jump onto crates perfectly, if not better than before. (As an unintended side effect in the mod code) You actually don't lose any height each jump (Oops), but theoretically, marines should take slightly longer to vanish from sight, and the animation looks a tiny bit more natural.

    [Edit: never mind the no height loss from chain jumping comment. It is how it currently it works in the NS2.]
  • XariusXarius Join Date: 2003-12-21 Member: 24630Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited February 2015
    Could always just bring back glancing bites. I know it's not exactly the ideal solution, but at least that would lower the skill floor somewhat.
    (which is the biggest problem with aliens in NS2 at the moment)
  • SebSeb Melbourne, AU Join Date: 2013-04-01 Member: 184576Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Silver, Retired Community Developer
    Xarius wrote: »
    Could always just bring back glancing bites. I know it's not exactly the ideal solution, but at least that would lower the skill floor somewhat.
    (which is the biggest problem with aliens in NS2 at the moment)

    Please no
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES&#33; FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS&#33; Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    As much as i loved glancing bites (i was bad at the time) i despise it now, because it's absence made me better.

    Sometimes, lowering the skill floor makes it harder for skill to rise.
  • krOozekrOoze Join Date: 2014-04-24 Member: 195593Members
    edited February 2015
    Yes this jumping is to me the worst fun killer. From platform 10cm high I can jump on another marines head and without crouch no less. I would prefer climb(marine can still get to tactical places with enough foresight) and realistic, well animated jump(still can evade to sides quickly). Or perhaps biting marine mid-air could cause fall on the nose, similar to stomp effect.

    Second is marines seeming to aim elsewhere, where in fact they aim at you. And fades invincible as it is and now self-healing(two fades can kill whole team, repeatedly). And marine outrunning celerity skulk(unable to ambush from behind well). Ok it's not just two things bothering me.

    Third is not registering hits and writing "invalid collision rep" in console. That is due to be fixed next patch, it seems. yaaay

    If they would fix that and released it as Natural Selection 3, I would be perfectly happy :)
  • d0ped0gd0ped0g Join Date: 2003-05-25 Member: 16679Members
    edited February 2015
    krOoze wrote: »
    Second is marines seeming to aim elsewhere, where in fact they aim at you. And fades invincible as it is and now self-healing(two fades can kill whole team, repeatedly). And marine outrunning celerity skulk(unable to ambush from behind well). Ok it's not just two things bothering me.

    Marines can't 'outrun' celerity skulks even if they're ground skulking.

    However, I have found that because of the existence of marine sprint, that it's comparatively more difficult to ambush in ns1 (as opposed to ns2). The window of opportunity is a lot lower such that if you pounce down even slightly too late, you end up playing catchup with the marine down the hallway - then he hears you jumping towards him trying to close the distance and it's a dead giveaway. I have suggested making non-chained jumps wall->wall jumps silent to increase the speed/options in which a skulk can silently make an approach, but it's always been met with fairly strong opposition.
  • krOozekrOoze Join Date: 2014-04-24 Member: 195593Members
    edited February 2015
    I have been killed chasing or being chased by marine too many times to believe that, but I guess the numbers on wiki are clear. Also I don't know if you noticed, jumping down from ceiling actually slows you down too to make matters worse. I guess I can still parasite them so at least some win. For what I think, no obscure sound mechanics should be needed. Marine that does not check his surrounding and walks around alone should be dinner. Fast food to be exact. Also making katchup FROM him.
  • RapGodRapGod Not entirely sure... Join Date: 2013-11-12 Member: 189322Members
    Turbine wrote: »
    I took a pic awhile back of a Marine crouch jumping at around shoulder level. On Earth's gravity 30cm is as high as most can jump when measuring, it feels a lot higher, but it's true.

    30 cm? nope. Unless I was a god in my second year in high school... 30.5 inches. But that's only for vertical jumps. I'd assume a space marine would be shooting nanites in his butt to achieve max potential.

    Anyway, just watch where they jump n try to not be directly in front of them. Jump as unpredictably as the marine... strafe jump.. get around them... just try to bite the marine, not nibble on his toes.

  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow
    RapGod wrote: »
    Turbine wrote: »
    I took a pic awhile back of a Marine crouch jumping at around shoulder level. On Earth's gravity 30cm is as high as most can jump when measuring, it feels a lot higher, but it's true.

    30 cm? nope. Unless I was a god in my second year in high school... 30.5 inches. But that's only for vertical jumps. I'd assume a space marine would be shooting nanites in his butt to achieve max potential.

    Anyway, just watch where they jump n try to not be directly in front of them. Jump as unpredictably as the marine... strafe jump.. get around them... just try to bite the marine, not nibble on his toes.
    I had the worst vertical jump in my class. It was 11 inches, which so happens to be 27 cm.
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